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PCIntern

(27,015 posts)
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 10:18 AM Dec 15

In a nation in which Anna Gunn, the TV actress

Who portrayed the wife of drug kingpin Walter White in the television show Breaking Bad, received death threats routinely because she was not supportive of her “husband“, WHO WAS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER, should it be any surprise that someone would take it into their own hands to assassinate a CEO of a major company?

We have proclaimed the anti-hero, the mobster, the drug kingpin, the paid assassin, as a positive personality through a variety of very, very clever, literary and dramatic devices over the years. Alfred Hitchcock actually got us rooting for a killer in the film Psycho and since then we have taken upon ourselves to side with Street justice in series and films such as Dexter, The Sopranos, Dirty Harry, The Godfather Trilogy, Goodfellas, the Death Wish films, and a whole host of copycats and original dramas.

It is actually based in Logic as a form of mathematics: If one assumes that traditional forms of justice and law enforcement are ineffectual and corrupt then one may conclude that any behavior may be acceptable to rectify a particular situation. In fact, the assumption in virtually all these examples is that with the occasional exception of the Feds, the existence of these individuals is tolerated due to bribery, yes, but also to the notion that these people police themselves more effectively than law enforcement can.

That is why individuals can grow up, be well-educated, well-raised, and well-fed and rationalize putting together a plot to kill someone whom they perceive as evil. Michael Corleone, his father, and his minions, Walter White and his associates, Henry Hill and his fellow mobsters, Dexter the serial killer of BAD PEOPLE ONLY, all essentially remain unprosecuted for their heinous crimes, and if they’re picked up, it’s on trivial charges relatively speaking.

So this miscreant graduate from a University from which I received my professional degree, taught, and was honored with two awards by the students for my instruction, took it upon himself to create a very short-lived entertainment series. And why not? Everyone he’s ever watched on tv has been “exonerated” (and yes, I know that a finding of not guilty is not exoneration, but you’ve got an individual who is preparing to be the head of our Government using that term, so go no, tell these idiots about the distinction between the two terms) and so why not shoot this fellow IN THE BACK and leave him to die?

The ironic part of this is that if he had watched TV from my generation in the 50s and 60s, he would’ve known that there was no more vilified and cowardly act than to do exactly what he did. In the old westerns, shooting someone in the back condemned that individual to certain death in the TV show. No question about it, this individual, this cowardly perpetrator had to die. And so it shall be for this individual, whether rotting in jail for the next 60 years or the death penalty, if allowable.

This is the new ethos: this is a generation that won’t listen to us, don’t care about any traditional societal norms, reject the past, won’t watch a black-and-white movie or TV show, call us “boomers“ if we proffer a sentiment or thought which is not immediately hedonistic or satisfying, but has a moral context.

My generation endured assassinations of this sort: two Kennedys, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, various foreign leaders, and numerous attempted assassinations, including George Wallace, who by any measure, might have cost Richard Nixon the 1972 election. We should not, nor should we ever be a government by assassination or a society which promotes this. But you know what? It’s great cinema, it’s great TV. So don’t hold your breath for any return to formal justice and traditional morality anytime soon.

Especially with the Pirate captain in the White House.

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In a nation in which Anna Gunn, the TV actress (Original Post) PCIntern Dec 15 OP
OMG - I hadn't heard that about Anna Gunn. That's totally, freaking insane. Vinca Dec 15 #1
It's pretty scary... 2naSalit Dec 15 #12
Gen Z will be an interesting study newdeal2 Dec 15 #2
Good point PCIntern Dec 15 #3
seems like so many of them reject their parents and families. mopinko Dec 15 #9
Main Street agitators dumped tea in Boston Harbor, we thought that great too bucolic_frolic Dec 15 #4
In a nation where leaders of corporations like UHC can murder people with impunity, I really do not care Voltaire2 Dec 15 #5
Fully and completely understand... PCIntern Dec 15 #6
In a nation where school children can be slaughtered and nothing much changes... Random Boomer Dec 15 #16
"Reality TV" hasn't helped, either. KatyaR Dec 15 #7
Alfred Hitchcock did NO such thing in "Psycho." valleyrogue Dec 15 #8
Agreed...some of these examples are just wrong - there's no anti-hero in Goodfellas either Prairie Gates Dec 15 #20
You're wrong... PCIntern Dec 15 #24
I think the problem is the lionization of real life executives not film anti-heroes delisen Dec 15 #10
The CEO was not a fictional character. Iggo Dec 15 #11
I like the pirate captain tag but I'd add the orange lawless pirate captain ! kimbutgar Dec 15 #13
A major redistribution of wealth The Wizard Dec 15 #14
Dylan - "Steal a little they throw you in jail... rubbersole Dec 15 #17
PC intern,your posts are pure platinum. BattleRow Dec 15 #15
Sheriff Pat Garrett shot Billy the Kid in the back... rubbersole Dec 15 #18
You're mixing that up with Robert Ford's shooting of Jesse James Prairie Gates Dec 15 #21
Damn legal weed! rubbersole Dec 15 #23
The number of TV series and movies that feature protagonists who routinely skirt the law to catch and punish Martin68 Dec 15 #19
The inability to separate fiction from reality is a diagnosis dlk Dec 15 #22
Trump is a cosplay pirate captain. hay rick Dec 15 #25

2naSalit

(93,505 posts)
12. It's pretty scary...
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 11:52 AM
Dec 15

To realize how many gullible people out there watch teevee and actually believe any of the entertainment reality shows are real. I've met a few and found that there is no way to convince them otherwise.

Terrifying.

newdeal2

(1,135 posts)
2. Gen Z will be an interesting study
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 10:27 AM
Dec 15

I don’t particularly get their motives or politics. Every generation complains about getting screwed over by the prior ones but this group seems worse.

I did see a Tiktok which made an interesting point. This generation has witnessed a number of mass school shootings and the adults basically said get over. No wonder they don’t care about the CEO or shootings in general.

mopinko

(71,969 posts)
9. seems like so many of them reject their parents and families.
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 11:23 AM
Dec 15

mine have done so, and many parents i know have suffered the same.
they have a warped sense of fairness, fersher.

bucolic_frolic

(47,615 posts)
4. Main Street agitators dumped tea in Boston Harbor, we thought that great too
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 10:30 AM
Dec 15

We are a country of "Go shove it!"

Elections are supposed to institutionalize the driving force of change like clockwork. Instead the rich have gamed the system by lying and buying everybody. Now we're in a real pickle.

I'm really asking, "What would Colonel Klink do?"

The answers are in the way fantasy - art - abstraction - drive the human collective mind.

Trump is a puppet. So is Vance. We just haven't figured out how to sell that to the voters.

Voltaire2

(14,879 posts)
5. In a nation where leaders of corporations like UHC can murder people with impunity, I really do not care
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 10:53 AM
Dec 15

much at all about the revenge killing of one such CEO.

PCIntern

(27,015 posts)
6. Fully and completely understand...
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 11:14 AM
Dec 15

Until it’s your friend/family member who dissed someone at a stoplight or convenience store.

But really, I get it: I spent a career fighting these bastards at the insurance companies.

Random Boomer

(4,270 posts)
16. In a nation where school children can be slaughtered and nothing much changes...
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 12:21 PM
Dec 15

I also don't care about the killing of a random CEO. Frankly, his death is the least of our problems.

KatyaR

(3,536 posts)
7. "Reality TV" hasn't helped, either.
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 11:19 AM
Dec 15

"COPS," "Judge Judy," "Survivor," all of them. These shows promote violence and stupidity and provide viewers with examples of brutality and ignorance, as well as teaching people how to laugh and demean others.

And have you noticed how many TV shows and movies center on crime and violence? Crime and violence are now entertainment. People now have a front-row seat in the comfort of their homes to learn how to be crappy, cruel citizens.

I'm not saying go back to Mayberry and Walton Mountain, but entertainment doesn't lift us up any more, it buries us.

valleyrogue

(1,201 posts)
8. Alfred Hitchcock did NO such thing in "Psycho."
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 11:22 AM
Dec 15

Audiences were terrified and repelled by what Norman Bates did.

Prairie Gates

(3,571 posts)
20. Agreed...some of these examples are just wrong - there's no anti-hero in Goodfellas either
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 01:08 PM
Dec 15

You're really not supposed to identify with any character in Goodfellas, nor are any of them standing in for some larger failure of justice.

Ultimately, the post tries to see something new in a very old trope: the "anti-hero" is a variation on the very old theme of what happens when accepted concepts and structures of justice fail. It's a pretty much universal theme in literature, visible particularly in Greek tragedy. The notion that this is a recent question or was inaugurated by Hitchcock's Psycho (a bizarre claim and a bizarre reading of the film, as you correctly point out) is just wrong.

That said, the overall point of the OP - that we've been trained by recent stories that take up variations on the theme to read Luigi Mangione a particular way - is probably correct, even if the details of the claim are overblown and often wrong.

PCIntern

(27,015 posts)
24. You're wrong...
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 01:30 PM
Dec 15

The scene in which Norman Bates has placed his victim in the trunk of the car and is sinking the car in the swamp… The car stopped sinking, and the audience shares the anxiety of Norman, who is afraid that it will just stop. But after a moment, it begins again and is fully submerged.

At that point, the audience begins to have a certain relief and identification with him and a fear that he is going to be caught. This is not original with me, this has been discussed in film classes since 1960.

delisen

(6,581 posts)
10. I think the problem is the lionization of real life executives not film anti-heroes
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 11:24 AM
Dec 15

Inequality and injustice are the same killers they were in the Great Depression.
People are primarily citizens entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness or they are just economic units in servitude to the rapacious pursuit of wealth by the few lawless individuals who refuse to recognize the humanity of the majority while lying, cheating. and stealing from the rest of us.

We live together in a society of human beings. We have the rights as humans to design an economic system that works for all of us, and promotes the the general welfare and the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

Human beings are not things or tools of an economic system, an economic system is a tool used by human beings.



The Wizard

(12,941 posts)
14. A major redistribution of wealth
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 12:10 PM
Dec 15

through living wage jobs would make us all more civilized.
As Bob Dylan wrote is his song "Like A Rolling Stone:" "When you ain't got nothing you got nothing to lose."
Desperate people make bad decisions . Reagan's union busting started the move to predatory capitalism leaving working class victims in its wake.

rubbersole

(8,712 posts)
17. Dylan - "Steal a little they throw you in jail...
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 12:38 PM
Dec 15

...steal a lot an they make you king."
tsf's theme song.

rubbersole

(8,712 posts)
18. Sheriff Pat Garrett shot Billy the Kid in the back...
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 12:47 PM
Dec 15

...which helped lionize Billy's reputation and villainze Pat Garrett.

Martin68

(24,735 posts)
19. The number of TV series and movies that feature protagonists who routinely skirt the law to catch and punish
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 01:01 PM
Dec 15

criminals seems to me to have increased during the lat 20 years. I can't help but think that may well have significantly erodes the belief that we should obey the law and let the justice system handle the arrest and trial of criminals. I confess there are a number of such shows that I regularly watch and enjoy. I believe there are also popular video games that could have the same effect.

dlk

(12,468 posts)
22. The inability to separate fiction from reality is a diagnosis
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 01:16 PM
Dec 15

There are too many Americans who are so rigid and inflexible, they believe they don't need to learn anything new, since they already know it all. Anything else isn't worth their time or attention, and they don't seem to realize how this hurts them.

hay rick

(8,322 posts)
25. Trump is a cosplay pirate captain.
Sun Dec 15, 2024, 01:35 PM
Dec 15

He doesn't have the intelligence, work ethic, or style to be the real thing.

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