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[PeaceWave]

This message was self-deleted by its author (PeaceWave) on Fri May 23, 2025, 11:57 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[ornotna]

1. I haven't heard that one yet.

Has that been suggested?

[SocialDemocrat61]

8. No

It’s a straw man.

[bucolic_frolic]

2. I don't believe we should scuttle everything to please Gen Z

There is wisdom, experience, timing. The clockwork of politics as it developed over time. The principles of democracy dating from ancient Roman Empire. The foundation of the Enlightenment. We faced similar terrain when Nixon won reelection. How did that work out for us?

Let youth study Machiavelli, Hobbes, Montesquieu, Locke, Rousseau - the great political philosophers. To govern you need to please and convince naysayers and the other side, not just yourselves. If you want one-sided government, you have Republicans and MAGA and Trump. We risk becoming a much smaller party in opposition if we shed our leaders in favor of firebrands. Witness the fracture of moderation in multiple European countries. They call elections twice a year sometimes.

[Cirsium]

3. You aren't really listening

If all you hear from "young people these days" is that they want someone younger to represent them, then you aren't really listening at all.

Mischaracterizing the opinions of those with whom you disagree in order to make them all look ridiculous? Not good.

[SocialDemocrat61]

13. But that's the point

When someone can’t make a factual, logical, reality based argument; they’ll resort to such intellectually dishonest tactics.

[ThePartyThatListens]

46. This

Ar this point I believe it's intentional.

They're wilfully mischaracterizing the arguments.

I do not respect that.

[KT2000]

4. I don't believe those

who provide an explanation for not voting for Kamala. They voted FOR someone - a horrendous someone. Their justifications like "too old" for Harris are lies. It may take years of therapy to unearth their reasons but always remember what they knowingly voted FOR!

[awesomerwb1]

5. Won't be long before we see posts

asking to rename the Democratic party.

[SocialDemocrat61]

7. What are your suggestions?

Maybe we should have a contest. But what would be a good prize for the winner? 🤔

[Celerity]

23. A pizza?

[SocialDemocrat61]

29. Toppings?

Lol 😂

[Celerity]

30. Swedish kebabpizza 🍕

[The Madcap]

16. How about the

Democracy party...as opposed to the Fascism Party.

[SocialDemocrat61]

6. So we should stick with the leaders who lost

the House, the Senate, and the White House. Yeah that makes sense.

[0rganism]

9. Which sort of ignores the question of whether there will be a Democratic party in 2 years

The GOP could see some use for it as an easy method to corral opposition, or simply dissolve it by declaring all Democrats to be terrorist supporters. The neoliberalist framework within which both parties operated for decades is giving way to a new and dangerous form of populism -- one the GOP has quickly adopted and co-opted. The old guard in the Democratic party might not be such a safe bet for continued survival going forward.

[W_HAMILTON]

10. Spoiler alert: if we did, the same forces of propaganda that got them to stop on a dime and hate Hillary, Pelosi, etc.

...will turn their eyes on AOC and she will then become the dastardly """establishment"""" and those easily susceptible to this will then get Pied Piper'd into hating her and supporting someone else to overthrow it.

PS - Did you also hear how young people wanted someone other than Biden to be our standard-bearer? And then once he was kicked to the curb and a younger candidate ran in his place, they showed it never actually mattered because they still had lackluster turnout and not enough support for her to win?

[Cirsium]

20. "They"

Who exactly is the "they" whom you hate so much? Young people? Progressives? Followers of AOC?

[W_HAMILTON]

36. Those that claim they will happily support Democrats if we only bend over backwards to appease them...

...and then once we do, they still criticize, complain, and move the goalposts to give new reasons why they don't support Democrats -- all the while we lose support from the broader electorate that isn't as extreme as this particular subset is.

[Cirsium]

37. oh, those wankers

Yeah, they sure are annoying.

[Hekate]

39. Why do you assume the observation is driven by "hatred" ? It's just an observation.

[Cirsium]

41. Intense dislike?

"Observation." Sure. "I am not hating on them, I am just describing the way they are!" said every bigot in history. Just making observations.

"Those that claim they will happily support Democrats if we only bend over backwards to appease them and then once we do, they still criticize, complain, and move the goalposts to give new reasons why they don't support Democrats."

That is not an "observation."

[Celerity]

24. De-rec. NT

[Iggo]

25. Spoiler alert: Those forces are already at work in this thread.

[Hekate]

38. Spot on. The real issue with running a woman for POTUS is a national case of reeking misogyny

Half the talent in the country wasted just like that.

[lame54]

11. She's a fighter...

We need fighters
Not capitulators

[Galraedia]

12. Sweet Jesus, that is not what young people are asking for.

You don't have to be a genius to see that selecting a 74 year old battling esophageal cancer (with a 20% survival rate) over a healthy 35 year old woman for a key position is a really bad idea. I may not agree with AOC on everything but I trust her to get the job done. This just sends the wrong message to young voters that this is a country club and they're not welcome.

[claudette]

27. Personally

I believe there are more qualified Dems than AOC. She's good, but still a newbie.

[usonian]

14. Try electing a 43-year-old. NOBODY would go for it.

[Fiendish Thingy]

15. OK by me.

AOC can run the show during the week, and Maxwell Frost can take it on the weekends.

[SunImp]

17. Okay, let's run Joe Biden again for 2028

[Autumn]

18. Sure, I'm good with that. She's young, healthy and very intelligent.

[thebigidea]

19. well, she'd have to count votes, trade horses, and win.

It's not a prize given out for perfect attendance, you slug it out and have to win it.

[Trenzalore]

21. 2 things

Being able to reach people outside legacy media is critical to any political operations future success. So bashing the followers on social media isn't a strong talking point.

As for AOC,.from what I understand the speaker emeritus played a large role in interference with her ambitions. I appreciate everything the speaker emeritus has done, but she stepped down as leader and should have relinquished her seat. This isn't ageism. She could have been 55 when she did this and I would have the same opinion. The speaker emeritus needs to let minority leader Jeffries run the show and enjoy her retirement.

[radicalleft]

22. Couldn't be any worse than what

We’ve been handed to us by the current “leadership”. Fuck it…let’s do it!

[claudette]

26. Absolutely not

There are many, many, many more experienced Democrats who have seniority over her.

[dpibel]

28. Did you have a point?

I mean, other than the clear provocation of "turn the party over to the kids," the balance of your post is pretty hard to decipher.

I can see a way in which "that's what it's all about these days...having lots of followers online" could be read as dismissive or patronizing, but I am very sure you didn't mean it that way!

[BannonsLiver]

31. I'm not sure she could do any worse after the November performance of so called veteran pols.

But gee, isnt there some middle ground between sidelining younger Dems and “handing the party over to them”? I kinda think there is. Maybe we can work on that a little…FFS 🙄

[JustAnotherGen]

32. No

Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2024, 05:13 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm Gen X-er it's our turn. Jeffries it is - and I would like to see Booker take over from Schumer.

Now Lauren Underwood - look at her legislative accomplishments.

She knows how to quietly count votes and get her bills passed.

That said I'll vote but that's it.

[Seeking Serenity]

33. You know, the Democratic caucus, or the Democratic National Committee,

Could pass a rule barring anyone older than 40 years from seeking the party's nomination for elective office, and requiring every elected Democratic officer to resign their office upon attaining the age of 40 years.

Would that satisfy them?

[lees1975]

35. We need leaders who are willing to step up and be bold in their defense of constitutional democracy.

"Hand it over" isn't really the right term to use.

If we'd had bold leadership in the Justice Department, the buffoon wouldn't have been eligible to run again, with an "insurrectionist" tag on his name. For two years we had a Congressional majority in the White House and we made some great accomplishments, But we couldn't get a solid, evidence-based house investigation through the justice department to a trial, because of a leadership failure. Not looking for someone to blame, but that's when Garland should have been told either get it done or someone else will come for your job who will. We missed that chance.

And yeah, there would have been inherent risks in busting the filibuster and packing the court. But we would not now be looking at a corrupt, bought and paid for immunity ruling and god only knows what else is coming out of their bribed brains. That's a bridge we could have also crossed with legislation, preventing a turnabout.

But we need leaders who are open to considering everything and who are not bound by the traditional protocols of restrictions the GOP no longer cares about and which makes us ineffective, weak, pearl clutchers.

AOC is high on my list. So is Ruben Gallego. J. D. Pritzker. Gavin Newsome. And Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. Wes Moore.

[Jack Valentino]

40. I think your OP subject line kinda sucks.... as there appears no chance

that ANYTHING is being "handed over" to AOC at this juncture.


I know--- you've on a rant that appears to be headed in both directions at once! LOL
I feel your frustration of this time.


I do believe that the Democratic party needs to recognize and advance younger leadership,
whether it is AOC or anyone else....

we shouldn't allow the GQP to misrepresent themselves as being the party of younger ideals.

[Blue_Tires]

42. Um... Young people went hard for Donnie

Especially young men... So I don't get it.

[Celerity]

43. 'Young people went hard for Donnie' is not a factual claim when they are measured in toto.

https://edition.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0





For the youngest quartile (18 to 29) young men went for Trump by only one point over Harris (which is fucked up, I fully admit, but not 'going hard').

The 'going hardest for Trump' male quartiles were the Gen Xers to youngest Boomers (45-64yo) who went for Trump by 20 points, and the 65yo and older cohort, who went for Trump by 13 points.

Gen X and the youngest boomer women (45-64yo) were also the only female cohort who went for Trump, by one point.

Gen Xers are now the Trumpiest Gen (with some of the youngest Boomers tossed in, aka most of the the 'Generation Jones' sub Gen).

I saw this Gen X rightward lurch (and tried to warn of it here for several years) really start to come to the fore in the 2022 midterms.

https://edition.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/national-results/general/us-house/0

2022

Now that all said, I also do admit that the youngest cohorts in 2024 did slide towards Trump compared to 2020, much to my horror (obviously driven by young men, as you did state).

https://edition.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

2020

[Blue_Tires]

44. Now show me the white dudes...

[Celerity]

45. AP Votecast numbers for white and black males (all ages), and then 18-44yo white and black males

60 per cent of white males (all ages), and 57 percent of 18-44yo white males went Trump.

25 per cent of black males (all ages), and 33 percent of 18-44yo black males went Trump.


https://apnews.com/article/young-black-latino-men-trump-economy-jobs-9184ca85b1651f06fd555ab2df7982b5

[Blue_Tires]

49. White folks screwed us 😔

[DeepWinter]

47. In 2022

She said she didn't know if her future was in Politics anymore. She hasn't back tracked that as far as I know. She's super young. All roads are open.

[Blue Full Moon]

48. One thing for sure the republican lite

Worrying about the billionaires think sure didn't work.