I am appalled at the ageist comments I am reading.

[sheshe2]

Logged out, then logged back in and yup this is DU.

Is there a cut off date for a person's usefulness?

[Meowmee]

1. I agree

I am appalled by a lot of other things here too, on a democratic forum.

[Trueblue1968]

100. I just saw a post where a duer ranted against president Biden calling him OLD !!! What the HELL

What the crap is going in here. If this the new philosophy for DU.... I am out of here.

It breaks my heart seeing people be negative about our wonderful President !!!!!!

[Meowmee]

148. Yes, I agree, sad to see this but I have seen similar things before now as well...

[malaise]

2. I am a senior citizen

It is time for us to let the younger folks take over. We can offer advice.

[sheshe2]

8. I am a senior citizen too.

They don't get to just get to "take over", they must prove themselves capable and that takes years of hard work.

What age do you propose for said "take overs"? Fifty, Sixty, Seventy? When are we too old?

[viva la]

14. If a majority of younger people had voted

For their own futures, we'd be preparing for a Harris inauguration.

Truth is, too many Biden voters didn't vote this time. And the young vote was way down.

It is all too depressing.

[sheshe2]

49. You are 100% correct.

If they can't be bothered to vote then they aren't really interested in their own future,

[BonnieJW]

72. No

They don't see themselves represented in government and so they don't bother.

[SergeStorms]

92. So at 18 years of age.....

they have accumulated the wisdom and knowledge to take the reins of power? 🤣

[orleans]

144. i don't think anyone here said that an 18 yr old should "take the reins of power"

[B.See]

138. Bullshit.

Representation comes from PARTICIPATION. Not the other way around.

[sheshe2]

143. And if they don't vote they will never have the representation they seek.

It is a two way street.

[viva la]

149. Well, I'm not sure how to fix that.

You know, without people voting.

[mcar]

226. I've voted in every election since I was eligible

The idea that young people need to "see themselves represented in government" doesn't make any sense to me.

My foremothers fought and died for my right to vote. It is my duty, obligation, and privilege to vote. It also makes me aware of my role in our society and government.

Also, all they need to do is look at SCOTUS to see the effects of that kind of selfish attitude.

[Bluetus]

276. Another way of saying that is

The 77 million people who voted for Trump includes many millions of people who are not hard core MAGA, but simply don't hear us talking about the things that are making them angry about the country's direction -- or don't trust us to do anything about it if we did win the election.

It has been 7 weeks now. Time for people to pull their heads out of the sand and stop denying we have a real problem here.

[B.See]

131. Precisely, Viva.

[mcar]

225. This.

[sheshe2]

16. Years and years of hard work is what made us capable.

The truth is the senior population will be dead and buried while the rest of us have to live with the decisions they made.

The youth need to start voting in far greater numbers if they want their voice heard.

[malaise]

27. Sorry

The vast majority of us don’t even have a good grasp at the latest communications technologies.
It is time for us to get out of the way.

[sheshe2]

40. LOL.

You mean tiktok and Instagram?

[viva la]

154. I have to laugh.

I teach college students, and I'm used to them being unfamiliar with punctuation rules (nothing new there).
But theoretically these young people have been using computers since they were in diapers. And yet every semester I have to teach several of them how to double-space their documents. (They usually just "enter" twice at the end of each line.) The prevalence of "apps" that do everything for some very limited task is limiting the ability to take control of the work.

[malaise]

193. Both generations can learn from each other

You are laughing at their grammar - it is as appalling as most of our tech skills.
They are sick of our arrogance. We have failed them. Their lives are much harder than ours.

[viva la]

227. I got my first computer in 1984.

Been online since 1989. (I worked at a research university so we had access to Usenet and email early through DARPA.)
Many of us boomers have worked on computers for decades, starting with DOS and WordStar.
"Boomers have poor tech skills" is one of those generalizations that presume we didn't actually live through the end of the 20th Century and the beginning of the 21st Century and adapted at every point to great technological change. We might be Ozzie and Harriet's kids, but we're not Ozzie and Harriet.
Not to be preachy, but really-- the personal computer was invented by boomers (and some even older-- Hewlett and Packard).

[spooky3]

255. Agree. Bought the first Mac available to use in my work.

Prior to that I had a programming (mainframe) class and had to learn stat packages to conduct research. Long distance fiancé and I communicated on a precursor to the internet (because we were too poor to afford long distance phone calls then). Etc., etc.

There were lots of people in my situation. The skills needed for some apps today obviously differ, and individuals differ, but it’s just not correct that boomers are in general uncomfortable with technology.

[malaise]

187. Keep on ridiculing them

It’s sure working

[viva la]

237. Who is ridiculing whom?

could be either.

[Hekate]

157. We did just that, didn't we?

[slightlv]

24. Thus has it ever been,

and thus it will always be. One generation against another, the younger ones itching to get out and make the same mistakes their elders did. That's why nothing ever changes, no matter who's in charge.

[COL Mustard]

25. Isn't that the way of the world?

I wouldn't have dared do what I do today when I was 35. And I'm living with the decisions that people made 35 and 40 years ago, and even further back than that. I'm even living with some of the decisions that I made that long ago!

[woven]

62. Not truth, but a very old bumper sticker.

If not for the senior population with their experience, time for reflection, guidance and experience, the younger population will not live long enough to see old age. In youth and middle age the vast majority are self absorbed with the daily demands of life and generally without the time or energy for anything else. Many of us are providing emotional, functional and financial support to those much younger than us to allow them to survive and function long enough that they can replace us.

When do people become irrelevant? 30? 60? 80? Our impact on society lasts about four generations, or well beyond our death.

[spooky3]

68. Welcome to DU!

[woven]

78. ty

Been here about 16 yrs...silently.

[spooky3]

80. Then, I'm glad you now are posting! nt

[LetMyPeopleVote]

270. Welcome to DU

[B.See]

130. No, Asa. Most will have to live

with the decisions YOU'VE made. And so far, this particular'old person ain't all that IMPRESSED.

[Progressive dog]

67. When I'm younger and want your job

you are too old to do the work.
Seriously, I am enjoying retirement but if I were a government official in an elected position I would resent the hell out of someone accusing me of being too old. So for as long as I can vote for people who can actually do the job, I will vote for experience and proven results over age every time.

[Think. Again.]

182. I believe that's the point, the proven results.

[BonnieJW]

71. Maybe not take over

But let them in. Let the hard working capable one's take the lead in some cases.

[sheshe2]

117. They are already in.

No one gets to just slip ahead of seniority. She needs to serve her time like anyone else.

She has grown and matured since taking office and still has a way to go. She is bright and she will learn.

[Renew Deal]

126. "Seniority" is an artificial construct that can be ignored.

This isn't a monarchy. Seniority is ignored constantly in congress, often for personality reasons.

[sheshe2]

172. Examples please.

[muriel_volestrangler]

181. There's the problem, isn't it? "She needs to serve her time". Why?

Why is "time served" the only way to measure suitability for a position? That's the ageism here.

[jimfields33]

190. Wasn't there a vote? I think it's a matter of not convincing her colleagues to vote for her.

[muriel_volestrangler]

191. There was a vote, so it was the Dem reps' opinion that decided. But I'd hope they didn't base that on

"no one gets to just slip ahead of seniority" or "she needs to serve her time". Those are the ageist attitudes that put "seniority" and "time served" above everything else. Ability should be what counts. Saying it's "seniority" above all is a way to screw up the party.

[Renew Deal]

124. That's a very "hey kids, get off the grass" way of looking it

Who do they have to prove it to? The current generation of leaders are as much to blame for the situation we're in as anyone. They never had the answers, and they have no stake in the future.

[viva la]

240. You know, at some point, if you want it bad enough--

You go for it. Not once. Not twice. However many times it takes.

Sorry to bring up an ancient example here... of a very young man who didn't quit the first time he didn't win in government.

Elected an MP at 21-- getting ahead right away with the usual privilege and corruption of the time and place (1789 Great Britain).
Dedicated to the abolition of the slave trade in Great Britain, he brought a bill every year for 17 years until it finally passed with a huge majority in 1806.
He didn't quit because he didn't win the first time. And neither will AOC.
Give her some credit. She's not naive. In fact, she's savvy. She knows things can move slowly, and I bet she's taking advantage of that right now. She'll be in the leadership soon.

[Lucky Luciano]

125. Results are crap right now. Takeover needed by new Democrats.

[RoeVWade]

222. It's not so much age, but whether you can pass specific tests. Like for instance

Years ago, I was on a machine testing reaction times for people being evaluated for driving skills. You can test people on time limits, if needed to complete in a certain amount of time. If you can do the necessary skills needed in the required time, I guess you're okay.

Unfortunately, some of us reach a condition where we don't recognize our own incompetence. This is when it can become a problem for other people. I am 68 btw. So far as I remember, no one has told me I need to quit any activity.

[SergeStorms]

89. They don't want our advice.

They'll gladly take our political contributions, but after that.....just get the hell out of their way.

I vaguely remember thinking the same thing when I was 18, but then I matured and started listening more than I talked. Hopefully they'll do the same. 😉

[malaise]

186. Can you blame them.

We were the beneficiaries of the social good and they can’t even access college education or buy a home.

[LisaM]

274. I have never been able to buy a house or condo.

This has been a problem a lot longer than people think. I am a late Boomer (what people now call Generation Jones) and homeownership has always been beyond my reach. And I have plenty of friends in the same boat, mostly single people, mostly women, but not all.

[Happy Hoosier]

217. What does that even mean?

Take over what? How?

These are largely elections. Want younger folks to win? Convince the voters. Tell us why they should take over. Don;t just offer pie-in-the-sky aspirational nonsesne... tell us HOW they will make a difference.

I was hoping AOC would win the recent the election. I think she's earned it. But I'm not at all a fan of dismissing expertise and experience just because.

[Captain Zero]

278. You do know what AOC is doing now?

RAISING MONEY AFTER THE ELECTION TO HELP NEW CANDIDATES GET Elected.

I'M old and getting the texts. In January I'm going to start sending her money. She will donate to candidates who get elected and they will vote for her to move to leadership roles.

[greatauntoftriplets]

3. Yep, guess all we're good for is the trash.

Apparently I'm useless and my opinion doesn't matter since I'm a Boomer.

[sheshe2]

9. I guess some think we should be put out to pasture.

I am appalled to have read this and it went way beyond Pelosi. It was ageist.

Your opinion matters to me... and we vote!

[Seeking Serenity]

38. Or set adrift on an ice floe

[sheshe2]

52. Maybe...but with climate change there won't be any ice left.

[Seeking Serenity]

56. M a y b e that's the unspoken intention.

"Bye, Grandma! Enjoy your ice fl ... Oh, damn, it melted. And now she just sank. Ah, well, 'tis the way of things." (Walks off, whistling)

[JustAnotherGen]

115. Yes you do

[wnylib]

233. I am a boomer, age 75. I recently commented

in a post that Pelosi has done a great service to the country and the party, but that I feel she should do more to mentor younger party members who show promise.

That is not a put down of Pelosi or of age. It is a realistic view of the need to prepare for the future of the nation and party.

It is the custom, or it used to be, that older people who have achieved much and have gained status and leadership from their accomplishments, would seek out younger, talented people and mentor them. They encourage younger people to take positions that prepare them for using and further developing their abilities.

Ted Kennedy mentored and encouraged Barack Obama. Obama, although younger than Hillary Clinton, appointed her to a position for which she was qualified, which gave her additional experience and connections in her own right, apart from her husband, as preparation for her to run again as the first female candidate of a major party.

In her book, Becoming, Michelle Obama wrote about developing a network of promising, up and coming people in the party to be available for government appointments or to run for office.

In JFK's inaugural address, after the Eisenhower administration and Nixon's loss, JFK spoke of himself as a member of a new generation, "born in this century" (the 20th century) to whom the torch had been passed. Was he being ageist, or was he expressing what the voters had decided, that it was time for a new perspective in leadership. The world had changed greatly after WWII and had new challenges that required new policies and perspectives.

Something similar is true for our times. The world is changing, and not for the better in many places, although Syria and Ukraine look promising at the moment.

Biden knows this. That is why he wanted so much to run this year. From his experience, he has a solid view of the larger picture. He knows well where the world has been and sees clearly what changes are happening. I supported him strongly, even after his debate, before he withdrew.

I believed that Biden could have won the election if the party had rallied around him instead of turning on him. Even if he had not been able to complete his term, he would have steered us in the right direction, with Harris to take up leadership after him and show the nation and the world her own abilities.

We'll never know. Pelosi was one of the people who led the movement for Biden to step down. She is an astute politician and believed that he could not win. But there was a great risk in making such a change so close to the convention date. An open candidacy at that point -- amounting to a new primary -- would have been chaotic and would have required raising great sums of money for the new candidate. Harris was our best shot.

The party now seems leaderless. I am left of center, but not as far left as the DSA. But, I believe that AOC is a strong, intelligent, person with leadership qualities and a promising future. If we do not cultivate and mentor future leaders from among younger, capable people, where will we be in a few years?

Nancy Pelosi has just chosen not to support AOC. I don't know why and probably never will. Perhaps Pelosi is concerned about the DSA getting a stronghold in the Dem party. But, what has she done to cultivate younger alternatives? It is simply a fact of life that older generations pass on and newer ones replace them. For the sake of the party's legacy and the nation's future, we need to look at who will lead us in the up and coming generations.

[Keepthesoulalive]

41. You should be at home raising your grandkids. S

[greatauntoftriplets]

108. Please don't rat me out to Eloon....

But I don't have any kids.

[Keepthesoulalive]

114. Well

You can wet nurse someone else’s grand babies.

[greatauntoftriplets]

118. Poor babies will go hungry if they have to depend on that.

Maybe I could feed them bottles of RFK Jr.'s disgusting raw milk.

[SheltieLover]

127. Or Beardo

[greatauntoftriplets]

140. Him too.

Also Vance.

[radical noodle]

133. And where have we heard that before?

Looking at you, JD.

[Keepthesoulalive]

155. My point

[SheltieLover]

4. I agree with you, SheShe

I noticed it in a Verizon store just a few days after the bashing of Joe started about his age...

Pisses me off!

We are about the only society that does not HONOR the elders for their wisdom and useful insights. I-me-gimmie culture says "they're all like kleenex! Use them and throw them away."

[sheshe2]

19. Great analogy, SheltieLover.

Thank you.

[SheltieLover]

121. Ty, She!

[kozar]

32. Thats Sheltie!

A while back, reached out to this old guy, to learn DU. Sheltie has done well.

Koz

[SheltieLover]

120. Hi Koz

Awww thx but anyone hede would've pitched in to lend a hand.

How have you been?

[BannonsLiver]

81. Why was Biden being bashed at the Verizon store?

Is nothing sacred anymore. Can’t even buy a phone without people chiming in with their politics.

[msongs]

5. I think its more about people who cannot give up power nt

[Celerity]

10. Yes, absolutely.

[sheshe2]

20. Absolutely not.

[Celerity]

86. disagree nt

[sheshe2]

90. As do I with you. nt

[Cha]

94. Exactly.. Absolutely NOT. That's so insulting.

:After Everything Nancy has done for our Democracy

[SunImp]

161. 100% Spot on Celerity

Some here are acting like the criticism is against them & they are taking it personally.

[leftstreet]

129. +1

[spooky3]

257. But the caucus voted. It wasn't up to the candidates to decide

Whether they would take the leadership or step down (unless they didn’t want the job).

[Trenzalore]

6. I assume this is about AOC

I don't think Nancy Pelosi needs to go away because she is old. She turned over leadership to Hakeem and needs to let him lead and spend time with her family. This isn't about her age. She stepped down and needs to follow through with that.

[sheshe2]

13. Partially, however the comments went way beyond politics.

[Trenzalore]

17. Generations are always at odds

I would hope people that were young adults in the 1960s and 1970s would have an understanding of the feelings of young people given their generations struggle with the generations above them.

[claudette]

46. AOC may be

a great Rep. but she is still inexperienced and we do not need that in today's uproar. in my view

[Trenzalore]

58. I think experience may be overrated right now

The experience is with dealing with rational actors on the other side.

Right now it is the political equivalent of the Joker in comics.

[claudette]

109. May be but

There are many many more qualified Reps than her

[Trenzalore]

116. That is a matter of opinion

The caucus spoke. That all being said, we seem to be led by people that think you can negotiate with insane people.

They are terribly mistaken

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

83. AOC well deserved the chair, as her brand of progressive populism is the key to the Democratic Party's future success!!

[claudette]

110. However

That isn’t the only qualification required for that job. Experience and seniority should take precedence

[Trenzalore]

185. Whatever will help the democratic party become a majority party in 2027 should take precedence

I don't necessarily say this is it, but you have been around for a while isn't really the best deciding factor for a job. By that argument Barack Obama doesn't happen.

[claudette]

197. Hold on

Barack Obama was a Senator, went to Harvard and had a LOT of experience that AOC does not

[questionseverything]

205. Obama had just started his first term as a federal senator

Aoc has more federal experience right now than Obama had when he began his campaign for president

[claudette]

210. Oh please

Comparing AOC’s skill to President Obama’s is utterly ridiculous. She isn’t one tenth as intelligent, popular, skilled in communicating and lots of other gifts that President Obama is. I’m done. This has become a ridiculous conversation

[questionseverything]

214. Not a tenth as intelligent? That's bs and insulting to all women

[Trenzalore]

224. Every candidate that ran in 2008 had more experience than President Obama

[ThePartyThatListens]

254. Inexperienced in doing what exactly?

Can you describe the job that needs to be done?

[Hekate]

162. The Speaker Emerita is still a serving member of Congress, newly re-elected. She didn't quit the job...

…as you seem to think.

[Trenzalore]

175. That is my point

[spooky3]

258. Her constituents wanted her to continue. Nt

[Trenzalore]

264. When you were the leader

You leave congress when you are done. This is unusual.

[spooky3]

267. That is why constituents are given a vote. If they agreed with you,

Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2024, 07:44 PM - Edit history (1)

They would vote her out.

[brush]

7. Yeah, AOC not getting that ranking member post is not the end of the world. Even if it wasn't...

Connolly, there are other Dems younger than him with more seniority than her who've paid their dues and are in line for more responsibility and a chance to show what they can do also.

Everybody doesn't just forfeit their rights because a younger person comes in. AOC's chance will come. Institutional knowledge and seniority counts.

[slightlv]

29. I agree...

Institutional knowledge and seniority counts.

When I read about AOC not getting the position, and instead it going to a man... my first thought was we're backing away from promoting women because of the way this last election went. I still fear that. I haven't read what AOC said, tho... I just now got the courage to even come into DU a few minutes ago. I've been staying away from much of anything to do with news for my sanity and BP for the last couple of days. I know trump and Musk are going to destroy everything, so nothing is really a surprise... only raises my blood pressure for the few minutes it takes me to read the article, and then takes a long time to get back down to copasetic.

[claudette]

48. Exactly!

What happened to the old method of seniority? AOC may be good - but she's still a newcomer to the ranks and needs to earn her stripes like the older members already have.

[Think. Again.]

184. Nonsense, we need the best person for every job.

Experience or seniority doesn't guarantee that at all.

Sure, respecting seniority is a pleasant gesture when nothing else matters, but this is serious stuff and we need the most productive and capable people running it.

[claudette]

196. Sorry

I disagree. AOC isn’t the best choice in my opinion

[Think. Again.]

245. That's weird, I didn't say she was mine either.

[Bettie]

76. So, when she's 70 or 80?

Maybe there will be a spot open on the "senior team"?

Or does she need to get to 90?

Oh wait, we're at the end of our democracy, so there won't be a 'some day'

[brush]

139. Be fair. She's 35. Stop exagerating. There are Dems in their late 30s...

or 40s, why does she get to leapfrog over them? She'll get plenty of chances, and getting more experience and institutional knowledge will help when the time comes.

And it will. She's got plenty of promise.

But if the democracy is over, as you mention, and nobody knows that yet, it'll effect everyone...35, 40,45.

Fasten your seat belt.

[brush]

242. Let's put it this way. Would you want relatively new hire to leapfrog over you...

for as promotion you think you've earned?

It's not that complicated.

[cadoman]

216. exactly--she has not paid her dues

A big part of succeeding in politics is paying your dues. Vote with the party, support the party when it's not politically expedient, give campaign funds to other candidates when your coffers are full, etc.

Party unity is how we win collectively and get "the tough stuff" passed that the public is not always thrilled with.

AOC sided with the public too many times and Pelosi is correcting her to respect the party processes and order. In the military this is known as "getting smoked". Breaking a person down and re-molding them for maximal institutional benefit. It's rough for a highly individuated personality, but when the process is done that individual will be an amusing memory.

What's funny is likely one day there will be an 80 year old AOC enforcing those same rules on a dynamic 20-something Democrat who is not even born yet.

[displacedvermoter]

251. She sided with "the public"?

Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2024, 01:28 PM - Edit history (1)

As opposed to who, the Party leadership, funders, James Carville?

I am baffled by things I read here at times.

[brer cat]

11. It is bigotry and a disgusting look for a Democrat.

There is much to be revered in those who are mature and wise. Young people have time to make their mark.

[msongs]

15. mature and wise is no guarantee of best and most capable nt

[sheshe2]

22. Nor is being young a guarantee of best and most capable.

[Cha]

35. Excellent Response.. TY!

[electric_blue68]

164. Wait ..what's wrong with being "wise"? Being wise is an important trait. People go seek the advice of wise people...

And having a newer, different pov; there's something to be said for that, too.

It has to be, imho, nuanced out, I guess. Can we blend certain aspects? Can we pick some of this, and some of that; understanding that sometimes that doesn't work. Sometimes we can't blend some things together.

Whichever poster called themselves a "pragmatic progressive"...

I read that Progressivism wants (if i got it correctly) massive change more quickly in a Liberal direction, wherein Liberals will aceede to more gradual change.
(Socialists, and Communists want massive change, too, but in further directions. To be clear I admire the Nordic Countries Democratic Socialism)

A U2 lyric from "The Fly":
"There’s alot of things, if I could I'd rearrange."
So, yeah, if I could *snap my fingers*, and have the most liberal policies being actualized right now? Yeah, I would!

But being "being pragmatic" knowing we can't get all of that right now? I'll take the most we can get!.

[Iris]

275. Nor is young and smart

[displacedvermoter]

37. The Party, including a number of the folks who voted

Last edited Wed Dec 18, 2024, 10:10 PM - Edit history (1)

for Connolly over AOC, made it pretty plain that Biden's debate performance was a game changer, citing his age and health. Now they are saying that a 70 something man with what could well be terminal cancer, is the best choice over a healthy and very energetic, tech and politically savvy, 35 year old Hispanic woman. I hate to say it but there are those who might just see this decision as bigoted in its own way.

I might be hard pressed to disagree with them

[Seeking Serenity]

45. Some might say that she needs to exhibit patience, achieve things with what she does have

And stop trying (if in fact she is) to decapitate the seniority system.

Impatience is a fault of the young. I remember.

[claudette]

50. She's still a

newbie and acts like it

[Celerity]

136. Please do share how AOC acts like 'a newbie' at this point.

AOC already was (as she is the Vice ranking member now on Oversight) thrust in the Ranking member role when Raskin was unable to attend some of the Committee meetings due to his cancer treatments, and she performed magnificently in that role.

She is one of the best communicators we have. Same for Buttigieg, whose highest elective office was South Bend mayor. Is he a 'newbie' in you book as well?

AOC reaches audiences of millions with some of her outreaches, and is an eloquent, persuasive debater, a great political prosecutor/exposer of Republican/MAGA bullshit. She is more than capable of performing the role.

again you said:

claudette (4,629 posts) 50.

She's still a newbie and acts like it

Talk about a condescending remark.

[NH Ethylene]

168. I would have agreed with that remark 4 or 5 years ago.

Not anymore. She has seasoned nicely while still retaining her energy and outstanding communication skills.

I don't know enough to judge if Pelosi made the right move on this. There are probably many factors that we are not privy to.

[claudette]

198. Sorry

That’s my opinion. I like her but Her credentials do not match so many other Reps who have been in office a lot longer than she has. And not of them all are old either

[Celerity]

202. Non responsive to my specific question. Your opinion is not evidence.

[ThePartyThatListens]

253. Describe how she acts

And what should she act like?

[displacedvermoter]

57. She was one of 80 year old Joe Biden's most

strident supporters! What are you talking about, honestly? In fact, she also supported Pelosi over Ryan when he challenged her for the Speaker's job.

In fact she isn't trying to "decapitate the seniority system", to answer your question. She sees herself as the better, more energetic, candidate. And I would agree with her.

[Seeking Serenity]

65. The Democratic caucus did not agree.

Got any insults to lodge against them darned old congress critters who won't stand down, brazenly defying "teh youngz," some of whom have all the charm and persuasiveness of a Veruca Salt? Now's the time?

[displacedvermoter]

79. I don't know what you are saying, really

AOC is terribly charming, I would say. Her demeanor is professional, but aggressive when dealing with the various nutjobs she has stood up to in the MAGA circus. I am not insulting anyone, and I am not, like one of your like minded bashers of younger elected officials accused others of, insisting she or any of the younger folks "run everything".

I am saying that she was a better choice, in my opinion (this being an opinion forum) for the position just voted on. I would also say, again my opinion, that the Democratic caucus has made its share of mistakes in recent years, perhaps including turning on their 80 year old President.

[BannonsLiver]

73. This is what ultimately won me over.

Like many, including the OP, I was not a fan of hers but in my view she is a very effective advocate for my values and she’s tough. I like the idea of the party’s leadership getting younger. That used to be a desirable position and it still is the most optimal politically, whether people here like it or not.

[Cirsium]

84. Some say...

Some say that the condescending attitude expressed toward AOC and those who support her is the problem, not age.

Ironic that people complaining about the alleged stereotyping of older people go right ahead and stereotype younger people. "They need to learn patience."

Patience? Patience? Is patience what is needed in this crisis? I think some older people need to learn some impatience. I have heard "be patient" for over 50 years.

[ThePartyThatListens]

250. It's not their age that's is the problem

It's their ideology

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

96. Many will see bigotry, because of the seeming hypocrisy and not choosing a woman, a Hispanic woman at that.

Sometimes, a woman will be passed over for other reasons, but someone will always see it as a bigoted(?) decision.

You said, " a number of the folks ... made it pretty plain that Biden's debate performance was a game changer, citing his age and health"

Some, may have pointed to his age. But when I say that Biden's debate performance was a game changer, I site his performance, his mental situation; not his age or health. (Other than if health is considered the cause of the performance)
But, I always thought that Jack LaLanne sounded just fine is his 90's

I find Pelosi performs quite well, and her age is up there pretty high. So, I think some may have cited his age, after the debate, but only because it seemed more harsh to cite the actual reason. That lack of need to be soft on the truth, allows others to now find their support of someone of 74 with cancer as hypocritical. However, it is actually their original soft-shoe that needs to be considered the cause of the apparent lack of consistency.

[displacedvermoter]

102. Congressman Connolly may well be dying of cancer.

I find his condition should have been a major factor, making that soft-shoe you describe, seem terribly hypocritical. Yes....

[Mossfern]

228. "may well be dying"

I'm sorry, but I find that cold.

How much is he compromised as far as cognitive ability, reason and strategic knowledge because of his condition? If he were 35 years old and had cancer would you say the same thing?

[displacedvermoter]

230. I have no idea how cognitively impaired he is.

Joe Biden had a weak voice and a cold at the first debate, a week later he gave a master class at the NATO Summit before a live audience on the history of post-WW2 European relations with US and the current status of Western military alliances. People still called him enfeebled and senile, and he wasn't. Were you one of the folks who sprang to his defense when the call was made for a younger, more capable candidate?

Just saying I am seeing lots of hypocrisy on the subject of how age, and health, are being weighed as a factor in who we should be having represent the Party in critical times ahead.

[Sneederbunk]

18. So we are to say nothing as we watch TSF in decline this next four years?

[sheshe2]

23. Where are you reading that?

This isn't about Trump's age, actually this isn't about trump at all.

You must have missed all the ageist posts on DU, there are plenty of them.

[Arazi]

21. Ffs it's about new ideas, new ways, new techniques

You can try making this about ageism but it’s actually about new energy and talent.

We lost the House, Senate, and Presidency.

Time for new leadership that isn’t connected to failed strategies

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

111. Excellent take!! AOC's progressive ideas are EXACTLY those that will resonate with the American populace!!

That's why she should've been appointed to head the Chair.

[LogDog75]

265. A lot of it should be mentoring

The older members need to be mentoring the younger members so they can takeover at some point.

[Cha]

26. Mahalo, she.. as you say the Trashing is "way beyond policy"..

The Dems now are on the Front lines Fighting to Save our Government From Shutting Down .

Is Trashing on Nancy Pelosi the Best use of Time? Mean Spirited Insults are NOT "Constructive Criticism".

[sheshe2]

36. You are right Cha, the focus now is the shutdown.

I just read that Pres Elect Elon Musk is trying to blow it all up.

[Cha]

64. Yes Fucking nazi lover Fascist POS Muskhead

is Ordering Toadie Johnson to Shut Down The Government to own the Dems.

So lets go after Nancy Pelosi because she dared to support Gerry Connolly. Ridiculous!

Thanks for this Thread to Vent, she.. I didn't want to get on those Anti Nancy threads.

[sheshe2]

107. Musk bought the 'residency.

He is in charge and calling the shots. TSF will just spend his time suing everyone and grifting. It is what he does best.

It made me mad and sad reading those threads.

[Cha]

122. Yes, musk bought the WH for TSF with Million$

and thinks he's in charge... maybe he is But I Hope they have a BIG Huge Falling Out Over it. And they IMPLODE!

Meanwhile Brava Nancy Pelosi! 💙

[Cha]

135. PS I just read This by Josh Marshall on TSF & musk...

Trump is following. He’s trying to pretend otherwise but he’s following. And unlike all of Trump’s other bad hires or hires he gets tired of he can’t just shitcan Musk like all the rest. Musk is worth hundreds of billions of dollars. He’s got a bigger megaphone. And he’s got his own brand. I’m pretty sure there will eventually be a really big and really ugly falling out between the two of them. But it will take a while to get there and the costs are potentially quite large for both of them.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219833206

[sheshe2]

142. That is frightening, isn't it.

We have not one but two madmen in the Oval Office. Imagine the damage the two will do.

I can't even.

[Cha]

150. I know .. I can't even, either. And I know it's asking a Lot

But Hopefully the two Egomaniacs will Wipe each other OUT.

[SheltieLover]

141. Aloha, Cha, & Mahalo

[Cha]

146. Aloha Sheltie!

And, Mahalo to you.

[LW1977]

28. K&R

[ThePartyThatListens]

30. There's a thing called provocation OP

These olders are provoking these types of responses

They're refusing to learn

[Hekate]

165. Refusing to learn what, exactly?

[ThePartyThatListens]

177. The lessons of November 2024

Going down the same losing path

Carry on

[Nixie]

200. The election lessons are that Trump was elected based on

attacking the fringe leftists and making them the face of the Democratic party. All he did was attack trans rights or other so-called woke-isms such as “defund the police” etc., the trumped up border crises, and he rode in on that shored up by inflation issues. He had no plans for the labor class just like he had no healthcare plan. So going more left was definitely not the answer, and that is the lesson. Looks like the majority of Democrats see that.

BTW, Trump said in a recent article that AOC should keep fighting to lead the Democrats. Why would a con man like Trump say that.

[Emile]

203. So now we are looking to Republicans reactions to our party,

that way we'll know the correct direction to take the party?

[Nixie]

207. My comment was about the election results.

Do you think Trump is a con man? Do you think his comments about who should lead Democrats are good faith assessments?

[Emile]

211. I don't think we should be using Republican reactions to AOC

as a guide for our democratic party.

[Nixie]

236. Trump is a con man. I'll make that easy for you since

you are refusing to answer,

[Emile]

246. Well shit everyone knows that. That's a strawman

argument. We shouldn't be looking to Trump or any Republicans for direction of where the Democratic party is steered.

[Nixie]

260. No kidding. That's why I brought up the article in which he is pushing AOC to lead Democrats.

It's obviously a con man's statement.

[Emile]

262. Of course he's a con man. I said that back

in the 1980's when I first heard about him.

I don't think we should steer the democratic party one way or the other because of what Trump or any goddamn Republican says about our party.

[Nixie]

263. Which is what I was saying. A Republican con man wants AOC to keep trying to lead Democrats, so

what does that tell you? It tells you that a con man is promoting something that is obviously not right.

We don't need to keep repeating. If you don't understand the Trump reference, it's okay. We agree he is a con man and is not to be listened to. If a con man is promoting AOC, then we know his angle.

[ThePartyThatListens]

231. Try to learn...

[Nixie]

235. Yawn. Some rando on the internet.

Everyone has their social media favorites.

[Emile]

247. Thanks for posting.

[bucolic_frolic]

31. Yes

Narcissists are useless beyond the age of 16 because they remain fixed at that age.

[leftieNanner]

33. Me too.

A friend of mine recently remarked that when we get gray hair, we become invisible.

Tacoma is closing all three senior centers this winter, selling the land to developers. Housing is important at the expense of seniors - with zero input from the community.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. I'm old and I'm not.

If there was ever a time when our party has needed renewing, this is it.

[erronis]

39. Guess I have no f'in idea what your talking about. Perhaps give a couple examples?

I'm sort of surprised sheshe2 since I've enjoyed your comments over a few years. This one just seems so out-of-the-blue.

I'm also a senior (4th quarter of a century) and don't feel what you're feeling.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

95. Me neither... besides, ironically, Bernie has been unfairly criticized over his age by some practically nonstop.

[SunImp]

160. Yes, but apparently some here say it's only Pelosi and others being criticized for their age

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

170. Yes, it's not only Pelosi and that form of criticism is not fair to her either... or to AOC for her relative youth.

[Think. Again.]

42. I believe this thread is an absolutely perfect example of why the Democratic party needs fresh voices.

[BannonsLiver]

77. Fuckin A.

Could not agree more.

[Tarzanrock]

43. 30 is the cut-off age.

"Don't trust anyone over 30." -- Jack Weinberg -- November, 1964 interview about the "Free Speech Movement" in Berkeley.

[Aussie105]

44. I've never had any personal delusions about my usefulness.

Other than a conduit for money, as in money in - money out, I've never been that delusional.

Define yourself in terms of your beliefs and values, and not what others may think of you.

Anyhow, exercise self-care and kick back at anyone who challenges your value in terms of usefulness to others.

Ageist negative comments are against the DU rules about being nice to each other, so report them!

[BOSSHOG]

47. A Similar Thread will appear in 20 years!

And then some other elderly folk will be the subject of scorn. Whom might that be? By then, my ashes should be floating down the Mighty Mississippi on their way to the Big Easy and Eternal Blues Music and Shrimp Po Boys. And Beer. Lots of Beer. Laissez les bons temps Rouler.

Or! I might still be posting and you all will worship my wisdom.

Carry On!

[kozar]

51. Its a generational change.

When I grew up in the 70s, rock and roll and weed, would kill the world. We had tornado drills in school, I drank a beer, ( gasp) after a football game.
Now, our children and grandchildren, have their music, they have shooter drills, and cheap drugs and the internet.
I needed to interact with a person when I was young, I walked down the block.
I was 30 something, when I got my first cell.
Now 6 year old get cells, the reply to this comment, prolly grew with a pacifier, and a cell phone babysitter.
Folks, I'm an old guy, you Asa, are the new.
I slow down with age,my mind still works,
While you have your fun on internet, I had my fun skinny dipping in a pond .
What memories and wisdom, will you die with?

Koz

[Lulu KC]

53. Amen and amen n/t

[Orrex]

54. Question for anyone: I'd be interested to hear the plan for connecting with young voters

Will this pick inspire young voters to go to the polls?

I suspect that someone will "answer" by demanding that I prove that AOC would bring them to the polls, but that question is now moot since she didn't get the job.

How will this pick inspire a generation of young Democrats. Please be specific in sharing your thoughts.

[sheshe2]

69. David Hogg, Taylor Swift and Victor Shi...

Each one of them, well known sponsored/called for massive signups to register and encouraged them to vote.

[Orrex]

75. But what is the party doing, and how does picking Connolly over AOC further that strategy?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

93. I don't get it either.

[W_HAMILTON]

176. How many of our experienced leaders do we have to kick to the curb before we "inspire young voters to go to the polls?"

Remember when it was Nancy Pelosi? Yeah, we kicked her to the curb and it didn't inspire them.

Remember when it was Steny Hoyer? Yeah, we kicked him to the curb and it didn't inspire them.

Remember when it was Jim Clyburn? Yeah, we kicked him to the curb and it didn't inspire them.

Remember when it was Joe Biden? Yeah, we kicked him to the curb and it didn't inspire them.

That's not even bringing up the fact that they were all too happy to throw their support behind the oldest candidate in both the 2016 and 2020 Democratic primaries...

[Orrex]

192. A few things

1. That doesn't answer the question
2. Biden was pressured to step down because of his categorically disastrous debate performance against the weakest debater in the history of the republic. If his aides hadn't forced him to participate while ill, he would probably have stayed on the ballot. If anyone "kicked him to the curb," it was his aides who urged him to go on air regardless.
3. If AOC had won the position, it wouldn't mean kicking anyone to the curb, and identifying it as such is simply an appeal to emotionalism akin to a studio claiming that a demonstrably terrible film failed at the box office because it was too woke.

Also, no one except politics junkies and DUers remember Steny Hoyer or Jim Clyburn, so those aren't great examples. Ask 100 random people on the street to describe the careers of those storied legislators, and you'll see how much they inspired people.

[W_HAMILTON]

273. Pelois was the most powerful Democrat in the House. Hoyer was the second. Clyburn was the third.

If those whining that Democrats need younger leadership don't even know who the hell our leadership is -- WAS -- that just further proves my point.

[Abolishinist]

55. Hey, try being a well-to-do, 65+ white male around here, we don't get no respect!

[LymphocyteLover]

59. Yes, agree. Also this BS about how Dems are losing people over not giving AOC a ranking

seat is such dumb bullshit

[Xoan]

85. How so?

[LymphocyteLover]

206. the vast majority of voters have no clue who the ranking member is and this ranking member

decision will have no effect on Americans voting for Congress in 2026.

AOC still will get plenty of attention the way she does now.

[Renew Deal]

60. Politically?

Yes

[quakerboy]

61. I too am appalled at the agism

Is there a start date for a persons usefulness?

Apparently our party is seniority based and has little space for the younguns, if posts here are to be believed.

[GusBob]

63. Paging Bob Dylan

How’d that song from generations ago put it?

[Cirsium]

88. Here you go

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
there’s a battle outside and it's ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’

[GusBob]

105. Before my time but there is another verse, I think

Ahem , might actually use that “a” word

[Codifer]

66. There was a time

when an "elder' was someone to listen to. Of course, that that "elder" may have lived three quarters of a century on the prairie. That elder knew the portent of cloud formations. That elder knew that sudden movements of great flocks of birds might mean. That elder could cross expanses of shifting sand by following the stars. Stars that that elder could name and relate stories about.

However, if that "elder" spent the last fifty years listening to rush limbaugh, sean hannity and some generic blond with a glass desk...... fuck him.

[Akacia]

70. Absolutely agree with this. The ageist comments are disgusting.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

104. There is no place for ageism... and that should include insensitive ageist comments hurled at Bernie!!

[jalan48]

123. Yeah, I remember the " No more old white men" phrase that was all the rage during the 2016 primary, here on DU.

Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2024, 06:57 PM - Edit history (1)

[RandiFan1290]

189. and the PUMA racism in 2008. nt

[Emile]

74. What age does AOC become useful?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

87. AOC, right now, is the leading progressive populist in our party after Bernie...

that makes her one of the most useful Democrats in Congress!!

[RockRaven]

82. Not all people who were useful in the past are useful in the future.

Some people who were right for one moment are not right for the next moment. Because of how the arrow of time works, they are older in the latters than the formers.

Does this apply to any of the people under discussion? Who knows, given the vagueness?

[SocialDemocrat61]

91. I'm appalled at the bigoted comments I am reading

about a young woman of color.

[Cirsium]

97. Not credible

Here and there comments may have been made that were a little over the line, but certainly not rising to the level of "appalling." People are upset with what the "old guard" is doing, not that they are old. You are trying to discredit those with whom you disagree by making the charge that "ageism' is rampant on the site, with the implied insinuation that it is the AOC supporters who are making the offensive remarks.

[SocialDemocrat61]

119. Exactly

This is what people do when they can’t make an argument based on the truth. Plus it helps to hide real reasons some people are appalled.

[leftstreet]

134. +1

[SunImp]

163. Not the first thread on this topic & probably not the last

[Skittles]

99. when fascism is on the line, MAYBE

yes indeed

[DFW]

101. I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion, but you are SO right!!!!!

I'm 72, still working full time, usually in a different country every day, in a demanding, but rewarding job. I have good support staff in Holland and Texas, some help from my guys in France and Switzerland, but I do over 95% of the work myself. I have been looking for a successor for close to two decades, but I can't find anyone with the (admittedly exotic and stringent) requirements and willingness to put in my hours. Nice six figure salary, six weeks paid vacation (expandable at your discretion), you'd think there would be 30-40 somethings lined up around the corner, but, nope. Not a soul. I joined my outfit 49 years ago at age 23, and asked for a lot of freedom and latitude, and was told, "if you can make it work, you got it!" From just me working out of my then-girlfriend's apartment (she is now my wife) in the Ruhr Valley on a sporadic basis, I now run offices in several European countries, and coordinate with the USA and Hong Kong offices. There have been the occasional tentative tries, but no one able to keep the pace, speak the necessary languages, obtain the necessary residence papers and work permit, gain the necessary knowledge. Am I too old to be doing this, keeping up this pace? Maybe. But if I am, how come no one half my age is knocking at our door, given the salary and benefits? After all, I'm way too old to be effective, and obviously past my prime. Right?

By the way, here in Germany, the press tried to knock Angela Merkel as "alt und verbraucht"--old and used up. Oh, really? Then how come she was elected to four consecutive terms as chancellor, and could have had a fifth term if she had wanted it?

[questionseverything]

213. Do you think you could do all of that while taking chemotherapy?

Because that’s where he’s at

[DFW]

243. If I'm ambulatory and not in pain, sure.

My wife went through a brutal program of chemo when she had cancer the first time, and it barely slowed her down, and mentally, not at all. The one thing I really find crippling is a full blown stomach flu. I’ve had those since I was ten, so I guess to be safe, we shouldn’t be allowing any Democrat older than that to run for Congress. So what if the Constitution forbids it? This is the era of the Alito Court, so who cares what the Constitution says?

[canetoad]

103. I'm 70

If I was 25 I'd probably be saying the same things, so can't really complain. It has always been so and will be so in the future. Anything different would not be natural.

[usonian]

106. I'm 76. Tanned, rested and ready.

And I’m really good with a chainsaw.

Where do I file?

[sheshe2]

112. Where do you file?

I guess it depends on what you plan to do with that chain saw.

[H2O Man]

113. Luckily for everyone here,

I am the oldest living thing on Earth. So listen up:

I remember being at the Onondaga longhouse. I was in my 20s at the time. Tadodaho Leon Shenandoah was speaking. He said he was glad to see a group of young people returning to the traditional ways. The group he was speaking to were in their 60s and 70s.

The traditional way recognizes that there will be tensions from time to time between younger people -- say, in their 20s and 30s -- and the Elders. It recognizes that this tension can be used to find the best alternative action to address any problem. That requires a balance where no group can enforce their will in a manner that harms another group.

Being an old person who was once young, I recognize that there are tensions between different sub-groups within our party. I view it as less one of age, as of other factors. One very important one has to do with where a politician gets campaign funding. If, for example, one takes funding from Big Pharma, they are probably far less likely to take a stand against BP. If they do not take funding from BP, they are more likely to take a stand against them.

Likewise, there is a chance that the DNC is composed of individuals who enjoy an economic status that is distinct from that of the voters that we need to win. The truth is that wealthy people speak and understand a language that differs from the working class and the poor. With this as an entrenched factor, the ability to communicate is greatly reduced.

None of these issues make progress impossible. But there obviously needs to be changes in our approach.

[questionseverything]

208. Yes, connelly is a millionaire and takes alot of different moneys i am not comfortable with

Like defense industry money

Aoc gets her money from small donors, regular people

[Nixie]

128. Sheshe, you are 100% right! Look at Bernie's age--it's given

a pass. He’s 83. But age is all rage all of a sudden with Pelosi when they want certain Democrats out of the way. Now 70 year-olds are too old. It’s so phony!

[Cha]

153. Rec! Mahalo, Nixie!

[SunImp]

158. Wrong, we see the same people crying about Bernie's age all the time by the same people

Don't lie and say no one is doing that.

[Cha]

178. Don't accuse the DU member of "lying".. I haven't seen anyone

complaining about his age, either. I know I haven't . And Obviously she hasn't either.

We Don't "Lie". Can't you make your point without personally insulting someone?

[Nixie]

188. What a joke. Try and be consistent and call for Bernie to move

over for younger people. The “same people” aren’t really concerned about age after all if it’s Bernie at 83.

[SunImp]

219. "Look at Bernie's age--it's given a pass"

Plenty of people have talked about his age on here. Some genuinely concerned about his health(Heart attack) others just bring it up to do a what about (Rgb to Feinstein discussions) I could only find a few unfortunately.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17921696

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19694968

I'm okay with Connelly being in the top spot for the Oversight committee. I & many others just think that the seniority thing that some of our congress people value is bs. The other sides leaders have been trending younger every couple elections & we still have the same faces in same seats for decades & decades. How can younger people work their way up to top position if they are never given the chance? We need to actually be a big tent party for once and give the younger generation more consideration in these selections. If it's not AOC at the top spot it could be Jasmin Crocket or Eric Swalwel.
I'm fine with Bernie stepping down I wouldn't create a thread if he was forced out.

[Nixie]

238. Those are not pile on threads. One was my post. Juxtaposing

the tolerance of Bernie’s age when other Democrats are being ganged up on for age is not the same as juxtaposing that Bernie’s age gets a pass from the same types.

[Autumn]

234. The very same people.

[debm55]

132. Agree with you sheshe2

[Emile]

137. The ageism here is against AOC.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

159. THIS!!

[onenote]

145. Elizabeth Warren

was just re-elected to a 6 year term She's 75, a year younger than Gerry Connolly, who was elected to a 2-year term. Are the folks saying Connolly is too old also going to push for Warren to give up her leadership positions on the committees on which she serves, such as the Banking Committee, where she would be the senior Democrat?

The sentiment that seems to be underlying a lot of the comments on this thread is that these experienced Democratic legislators don't resonate with younger voters. But Democratic voters keep electing them. Connolly crushed a much younger primary opponent and then handily defeated his a repub 16 years his junior. Warren didn't even have a primary opponent and also did jus t fine against a repub 20 years younger than her.

[muriel_volestrangler]

183. Connolly's cancer diagnosis was only announced after the election

His treatment is going to be exhausting, and the cancer may have its effects too. This is an obvious time for him to stand aside from an important position that requires hard work. "Seniority" is not a cure for cancer.

[onenote]

244. What is your experience with esophageal cancer?

I, sadly, have significant first hand experience through very close family and friends. How it is treated, and how debilitating it is can and does vary quite a bit. For example, one of my close family members who was diagnosed with esophageal cancer went through an initial regimen of chemo and immediately after it was over went on physically demanding international trip. So, unless you know things about Connolly's diagnosis and treatment plan that you almost certainly do not know, you are just engaging in baseless speculation.

[muriel_volestrangler]

252. Me too, for a family member, who was deemed too old and with complications

(diabetes) for chemo to be worth it. She had a stent put in at one stage, which gave her another 6 months or so, but it was under 2 years from her diagnosis until she died. But it's Connolly himself who said he "may be a bit fatigued due to the treatment" over some months, so no, it's not "baseless speculation".

[doc03]

147. Biden did a great job as president

but it was obvious he wasn't able to serve another four years, Biden was under water nearly his
entire term and it was obvious his age was a problem. He should never had attempted to run for
a second term. I am almost 77 myself so am I ageist? I am no great fan of AOC but hasn't my generation
fucked things up enough already.

[radical noodle]

151. I'm just gobsmacked by some of the posts I've seen on this subject

Nancy Pelosi has given so much to the Democratic Party but after all the celebrations at DU concerning her accomplishments, she's suddenly being tossed aside as though she's a doddering fool... but for opposite reasons. I see complaints that she spoke to Biden about getting out of the presidential race after the debate (ostensibly because of his age) followed by complaints that she apparently demanded that everyone vote for Connelly over AOC because she was too young. Make that make sense. They had a vote, did they not? Did Nancy Pelosi literally rise from her hip replacement hospital bed and twist their arms to vote for Connelly because why... she likes old men? If there's anything that Pelosi is, she's politically savvy. She knows all the rules and how to work the House like no one else. She stepped aside for a new, younger House Speaker who is doing an amazing job. If she pushed for Connelly, then she had a good reason for it and it wasn't a desire to keep the party full of old people. Apparently, a majority agreed with her.

You'd be lucky to find many young voters who even know what a ranking member is, let alone who is the ranking member of any particular committee. AOC will have her day, as will all the younger members of the House and Senate, just as our (older) generation had to wait our turn. This idea that "old people" will ruin the party and turn away younger voters doesn't make sense to me. I believe the real issue is our party's communication with younger voters. AOC is great at that. So are many of the younger House members. There is plenty of work for everyone.

As others pointed out, younger people are not reliable voters. And explain why... if age is so important to them... that so many of them voted for trump... a guy who can barely string a sentence together. Biden won a lot of the youth vote, while Kamala who is younger, didn't do as well.

[Hekate]

156. Thank you, radical noodle

[betsuni]

179. Thank you, all true

[Cha]

180. Rec! Well Said, Rad.. Thank You!

[sheshe2]

239. Great post radical noodle.

Thank you.

[Hekate]

152. Hi, She. Gods, remember when we were young? Remember the draft? And Vietnam? Kinda felt like politicians...

…weren’t addressing our needs then. What to do, what to do?

WE GOT INVOLVED IN POLITICS, THAT’S WHAT. Nobody invited us in. Nobody offered us a seat in Congress, or the City Council, for that matter.

Did we all stand outside and pout and say oh woe is me? No we marched and wrote things and — people learned how the dreaded “system” works, and became organizers and precinct workers and registrars of voters.

A lot of people were satisfied with volunteering at that level for the rest of their lives, all the while working for wages at something else. But some decided they want to get elected to a local office and learn how to do that — and they did. Then the next office higher. Those are the people who are now the old people the youngsters are bitching about — oh deary me, why don’t the old useless office holders give it away when it’s demanded of them in a strident voice?

Because power is never given, it is taken. And the way that’s done is to actually work in politics.

The rant is not addressed to you, because you know all this having lived it. It’s pretty much a reaction to some of the posts above.

[electric_blue68]

166. Still not all caught up on this thread- but age IMHO- while some generalizations; it's way often an Individual Effect

on a person, and their various capabilities. So you really can't make that much of a blanket statement.

[usonian]

167. History goes in cycles. I remember the fight for civil rights.

Like these brave people (please read)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219813493

And I’m mad as hell that we have to fight racists all over again.

And I’m more determined than ever, because I have a daughter who is fighting for equality and opportunity every day on her job.

Now, we’ve got Frankenstein Bull Connors unbound. (I saw the movie, co-written and directed by Roger Corman) and it’s spookily lie the present.

It doesn’t matter how old you are, if you’re fighting for justice.

I posted earlier about the lack of a fairly permanent bunch of Democrats, above the fray of primaries, ready to spread the message of freedom and justice for all, no matter who is nominated. It’s the same message we delivered in the 60’s, but in more desperate times now.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219825280

If it calls for GREAT people, great people need to step up. Not just whiz-bang fund-raisers.

I know four who can if they will up their game.

James Carse wrote a brilliant book “Finite and Infinite Games” and here is the beginning of the book:

THERE ARE at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing the play.

Our star players need to play the infinite game, the one whose purpose is continuing the play, not in the intra-party skirmishes.

Stars! Step up. Joe Biden, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama.

To capture the fire of youth and the wisdom that comes from having done a lot along with others; that’s the goal. And quite a few old dogs still have that fire within. But not if everyone’s betting on one horse or another.


You may read “Finite and Infinite Games” at the archive.

https://dn790002.ca.archive.org/0/items/james-p-carse-finite-and-infinite-games/James%20P%20carse%20Finite%20and%20Infinite%20Games.pdf

[LogDog75]

169. As a senior citizen

The issue of ageism isn't new and every generation has gone through it. The older generation is reluctant to transfer power to the younger generation and the younger generation is impatient waiting for the older generation to move aside. The hardest thing for people to do is admit when it's time for them to step down and allow someone younger to fill their position. Part of it is in our denial that we are getting older, that society is always geared to the young (20 - 35 years old) generation(s), and not our generation, we tend to be resistant to change, we resent the threat the younger generation(s) pose to us in our jobs or position in society, and we're just too stubborn to change.

I'm not saying everyone over 65 needs to step aside or retire but we need to accept the fact we've been there, done that and now it's another generation's turn. In terms of things like politics age can be both an advantage and an hindrance. An 80 year old Congressperson may be effect but they know their remaining time in office is limited so they should recognize when it's time to call it quits and allow a future leader to follow in their footsteps. For many, their elected office or company position or standing in the community is their identity and giving that up is admitting they are no longer valued. Change is hard and it's the fear of change from what you've done for years and who you are. There comes a time in the life of every person when they have to decide they need to step down and it's one of the hardest decision they'll have to make.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

171. I agree

Especially when it comes from those with low post counts. Seems some come around now and then to troll others.

[sheshe2]

173. Yes.

That seems to be happening a lot these days. Hm.

[betsuni]

174. If all leadership had age limits, term limits right now -- what's going to change? Nothing. Republicans still there.

This whole thing is based on the ridiculous idea that all Democrats except a special morally and ideologically pure group is automatically corrupted by holding public office, automatically corrupted and evil because of the status quo (money in politics). All Democrats turn into monsters who only think about money. When there are few if any difference in goals, go after the personal insult and use conspiracies about rigging, bribing, manipulation. The pure group's money has no corrupting superpowers even if it comes from the same person or place. It has its own special revisionist history and language meant to polarize Democrats

It's so stupid. Nothing would change because it's all fantasy.

[Patton French]

195. Look what was said about President Biden.

Such a shame.

[Bettie]

199. What you seem to be saying is that there is a

Start date and it sure isn't before the age of 60.

So, younger congresspersons should just sit down and shut up until they are 60 or maybe 70, because the audacity of thinking they are full members of congress before that is "ageism".

HEY! You kids, get off my lawn!

[Emile]

201. Still waiting for the OP to answer my question at what age does AOC become useful?

[Bettie]

204. Right?

I'm not a spring chicken myself...but not old enough to use the term spring chicken either, now that I think about it. I grew up with my grandmother and great-grandmother, so I have old lady words and I'm in my late 50's, so I'm not quite a whippersnapper yet, but obviously not at the age of utility, which appears to be between 70 and 80.

But, I digress...you won't get an answer, the whole point is to pretend that AOC is some usurper, trying to destroy the world by...being in congress as a young liberal woman.

[radical noodle]

212. I'm not the OP, but AOC is already useful

Every Democrat is useful. If only those who are the ranking members of committees are useful, then we have a real problem.

[Emile]

215. But according to some, she is too young to be ranking member of the House Oversight Committee.

That's ageism against AOC.

[radical noodle]

218. I missed seeing anyone saying she's too young

I believe inexperience was mentioned, however. Not the same thing at all. The upcoming four years will require all Democrats working together and every bit of experience we have.

Now, if AOC was the longest serving (yet still younger) and Connolly had less experience (but still older), then we'd have a problem with age.

[Emile]

220. How many terms in Congress before she is considered experienced?

The OP brought up age.

[sheshe2]

248. The OP, me, spoke of the multitude of threads with ageist remarks.

You should read them, at least one was at the top of the page. Nancy, old and in the way, is FORCING members to vote against AOC from her hospital bed!!! It is being said that Connolly is dying and won't make it more than five years! This diagnosis came from peoples key boards, not from any scientific knowledge of his exact condition. Fact is, we are all going to die someday and that should not hold any of us back from living our lives to the fullest.

My OP said nothing about AOC or her age. It shouldn’t be about anyone’s, sex or age, it should be about experience, learning to work and communicate with others. I think she and many others in Congress have brilliant futures ahead of them.

So sorry I wasn’t able to get back to you sooner…real life called and I have some major car issues that I have to deal with…and figure out how to afford.

Have a great day, Emile.

[Emile]

249. Sorry to hear you're having car problems.

Have a great day!

[Mossfern]

266. Actually, I don't think it's an issue of age per se

But the time to form relationships within the party and with the opposing party (yes, I said that).
Eventually, most likely sooner than later, the younger contingency will gradually be the majority of leadership.

It's not a question of age, but of maturity and connections, willing to put pet issues* on the back burner for a while in order to strengthen the party.


* By pet issues, I mean important to them in particular, not meant to diminish any issue.

[Gore1FL]

209. Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig were replaced when they faced age and illness.

There comes a time when superstars need to step aside for the next one.

I am almost 59 and looking forward to handing off the baton to the next fresh runner.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

221. Boomers have been holding on to institutional knowledge and power for decades. There's been a stagnation in workplaces,

leadership systems, nonprofit and social organizations and cultural institutions as a result. Very generally speaking. I've seen in happen again and again and again.

[themaguffin]

223. Can you give some examples?

[GreenWave]

229. Member when JFK got elected?

Young people were stoked!

[LizBeth]

232. Old here and had conversation just last night with son and said they need to get the younger

generation in there. I agree. I am tired of the same old old running everything and want a younger generation in.

[mdmc]

241. I was so much older then

I'm younger than that now

[spooky3]

256. Some of us forget that it was in part Biden's experience that enabled him

To figure out how to get legislation passed with such slim majorities (and the Senate filibuster and holds).

[LonePirate]

259. What makes Connolly a better person to be ranking member on the committee? How does he help the party more than AOC?

We lost a lot of support among young and Hispanic voters in this election. Why is it a good to refuse to put a competent and effective young, Hispanic women in one of the few highly visible positions in favor of someone else who has less appeal to those two groups? How does Connolly speak to those voters in order to win them back?

[William769]

261. I feel your pain.

And I really feel your pain because guess who I blame for the mess were in right now.

[sheshe2]

269. Hey you.

[Granny Blue]

268. It's not age, it's culture

I am old enough to remember “Don’t trust anyone over 30”. And I remember why I agreed with that sentiment. My generation, unlike the previous generation, grew up knowing that some idiot somewhere in the world would press a button and end the world. That caused a major societal change as we matured into adulthood. The young people today grew up with the internet. That has caused another major societal change. In this iteration of American society, the Marquis of Queensbury Rules of politics practiced by Pelosi and Schumer, et al are no longer relevant, and haven’t been since Newt Gingrich reinvented politics in the ‘90s. Excuse my French, but what is needed now are shit kickers and truth tellers who can think their way out of a paper bag and have some concept of what real life is like for the bottom 85% in this country. AOC, Matthew Frost, Raskin, Swalwell, and Bernie fill the bill, and we need a whole bunch more like them.

[ThePartyThatListens]

271. These older ladies get it

[sheshe2]

272. I don't watch long videos.

I prefer the written word. If you have a link to the transcript I would be more than happy to read it.

Thanks for your post.

[Dan]

277. Reading some of the early posts on this thread, and I was thinking

About the younger people, and their voting for Trump.

Thinking that for the past 10 years everything has been about Trump, they have basically grown up with him on their TVs, newspapers, radio, etc. To them, he is in someways America as they know it.

Combined with the years they were in social isolation due to COVID - Trump was everything anyone talked about, he commanded our national airways.

Television/Social Media has put shades of gray on good and evil; the games that they play - are there really good guys or win at all cost?

I may be going too far, but really greed is good to them and they fail to see that billionaires that capture 60-70% of the wealth is another factor in why so many people have only live paycheck to paycheck.

They have lived a life of privilege - so a lot don’t know what a struggle life has been for many of us.

Remember the movie “JOKER” - I think it was a statement of something that maybe we are starting to live.

But somewhere, I have hope in the younger generation, I just hope that they live long enough to realize their potential and start to understand and appreciate -morality, truth, tolerance and empathy.

Oh, and critical thinking to realize that a lot of what they read, hear and TV is bullshit propaganda.

[Polybius]

279. I don't belive that ageism is always clear cut

Last edited Thu Dec 26, 2024, 11:42 AM - Edit history (1)

If I say that 91 year old Chuck Grassley is too old to be 3rd in line for President, is that really an ageist comment?