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Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 02:33 PM Dec 20

The Left's best defense against Trump

The Left's best defense against Trump? Ditching limousine liberalism
Dustin Guastella

An effective fight against the president-elect requires a struggle that takes the frustrations of working-class voters seriously

Trump’s victory can credibly be read as a class revolt. Blue-collar voters – Black, white, Latino and Asian, in rural and urban areas alike – gave a big middle finger to the progressive professional class elite. Kamala Harris represented the epitome of a Democratic party that has become increasingly dominated by affluent and educated voters (and funded by even wealthier donors). Her ascension itself represented the transformation of the “party of the people” into an aristocratic private club, liberal elites were so terrified of the hoi polloi that they ensured not one ordinary person would vote on her nomination to lead the Democratic party into battle. Are we shocked that the same voters failed to show-up on the battlefield? Hardly.
...

Almost all of the content of American politics – the candidates, the policies, the priorities – concerns the top 20% of the income and wealth hierarchy. Remember, less than 2% of members of Congress come from working-class backgrounds. Working-class candidates face immense political obstacles because they have neither the money, nor the credentials – won in the halls of elite schools, conferences and institutions – needed to break into the fortress of American government. Many voted for Trump in the hopes that he could take a wrecking ball to the whole thing.
...

As the Democratic party transformed itself from the party of the New Deal to the party of Nafta it embraced a new constituency: progressive professionals. Since Bill Clinton, liberals presided over the offshoring of high-wage blue-collar jobs in manufacturing. They watched as abandoned factories, and the towns that once relied on them, slowly oxidized. As the Rust belt stretched across the heartland, Democrats helped to subsidize the growth of a new elite primarily concentrated on the coasts. They pushed for policies that pulled the economy away from blue-collar industries and toward more “dynamic” sectors primarily in information technologies. They fashioned a “new economy” through public policy, and attracted a new constituency as a result. They hoped that as high-wage jobs disappeared, they would be replaced by new high-tech careers; as the party lost blue-collar voters, they invested in white-collar professionals. They got what they wished for.
...

And Jimmy Williams Jr, the head of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, called the Democrats’ message “tone-deaf” and advocated for a return to putting the working class at the center of political appeals. These currents represent the best defense against Trump’s billionaire agenda; their success depends on whether they are able to forge a new politics. A politics that represents working-class economic interests and social values. One that takes on both Republican oligarchs and liberal elites. Nothing less than a class struggle on two fronts.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/20/liberal-left-trump-working-class

Dustin Guastella is a research associate at the Center for Working Class Politics and the director of operations for Teamsters Local 623

Is it possible to forge a new politics that represents working-class economic interests and social values? We see a battle right here everyday between two different visions for the party, as represented by those arguing that the prime reason or recent catastrophic loss was racism and misogyny (social issues) as opposed to those arguing that it was the neglect of the blue collar workers economic issues and a focus on the interests of the upper middle class that caused the defeat.

Can this gap be bridged?
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Left's best defense against Trump (Original Post) Cirsium Dec 20 OP
So voters rebelled against an affluent candidate in favor of a FAR MORE AFFLUENT candidate? Please. BamaRefugee Dec 20 #1
80-90 million people didn't vote. SixteenTons Dec 20 #2
Important point Cirsium Dec 20 #13
Thanks. There's a wall and I'm not sure how you get through it. SixteenTons Dec 20 #29
Thanks again Cirsium Saturday #31
Post removed Post removed Monday #37
No Cirsium Dec 20 #6
Can this gap be bridged? Timewas Dec 20 #3
Apparently the answer is "no" Cirsium Dec 20 #7
This makes no sense. leftstreet Dec 20 #4
Not sure I understand Cirsium Dec 20 #9
This wasn't a "class revolt" as the author suggests leftstreet Dec 20 #23
Understood Cirsium Dec 20 #24
You gotta be kidding me RANDYWILDMAN Dec 20 #5
I know. More "Here's every thing the Democrats did wrong." Aristus Dec 20 #8
the answer is MUCH deeper than those things you mention. WarGamer Dec 20 #11
No it didn't. That's what racists say. They have no complaints about Elon Musk JI7 Dec 20 #15
They do? Cirsium Dec 20 #16
It's not good to deny bigotry exists. Elites mean Beyonce JI7 Dec 20 #17
I would never do that Cirsium Dec 20 #19
You can criticize whatever you want. I'm just not going to pretend JI7 Dec 20 #21
I am interested Cirsium Dec 20 #25
Not going to pretend what? ShazzieB Saturday #36
Nobody here is denying bigotry exists! ShazzieB Saturday #34
I don't follow you. ShazzieB Saturday #32
This message was self-deleted by its author ShazzieB Saturday #33
Of course Cirsium Dec 20 #12
100%... wake up, people!! WarGamer Dec 20 #10
Not this shirt again . Black women are the elites JI7 Dec 20 #14
Who said that? Cirsium Dec 20 #20
Yeah, nobody said any such thing. ShazzieB Saturday #35
Oh dear, trying very very hard to do the Republicans are the Working Class Party bullshit. LOL betsuni Dec 20 #18
Thanks Cirsium Dec 20 #22
This is utter b*******. k55f5r Dec 20 #26
It started way before Biden Cirsium Dec 20 #27
One again elitism is bullshit. The real driver of the vote was hate. ananda Dec 20 #28
Thanks Cirsium Saturday #30

BamaRefugee

(3,722 posts)
1. So voters rebelled against an affluent candidate in favor of a FAR MORE AFFLUENT candidate? Please.
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 02:40 PM
Dec 20

The ApricotHellBeast ran against 2 amazingly qualified women and *won*.
He ran against 1 male and lost.
There's more to it than just that, but the math speaks for itself.
'MURICA!

 

SixteenTons

(10 posts)
2. 80-90 million people didn't vote.
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 02:56 PM
Dec 20

Maybe people might take a look at why that is, beyond the claims they're stupid, uniformed, low information cretins, and disengaged and so on. One might think it might have something to do with total disgust and cynicism as to what both the current Republican and Democratic Parties are offering as a platform and a new way forward.

 

SixteenTons

(10 posts)
29. Thanks. There's a wall and I'm not sure how you get through it.
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 11:02 PM
Dec 20

A little off your theme with non-voters, but worth consideration I think. A lot of workers struggling and living paycheck to paycheck out there. Lot of people struggling beyond that and they're not feeling the platitudes and slogans from any direction. Lot of Democrats are yelling... "look at all we've done for you to lighten your load." Struggling people are responding..."sorry but the cost of daily survival has doubled and I've not seen the results you claim in my daily struggles." Said Democrats then respond with charges of... "you must be racist, sexist, a right-winger, or stupid for not seeing how much we've done for you and not voting for us." Republicans are yelling..." look at all we've done for you, we're giving you freedom, less bureaucracy, less regulation, tax cuts, and so much more. Look at all we've done for you before." Struggling people are responding..."sorry but my situation didn't improve at all when you were in charge despite your claims of wide spread prosperity." Republicans then respond with..."well you must be an irresponsible woke libtard, and a lazy radical leftist Marxist with purple hair who doesn't want to work at improving your lot after all we did for you." And so it goes...

As for your question on bridges within the party and "the left", if such a thing still exists. Maybe. A couple of observations. I don't think most who focus on class are turned off by or resent discussions on racism, sexism, bigotry, and what have you. I think people are turned off and resent when the discussion of sexism turns into an all men suck hate fest. I think people resent when sexism is weaponized to shut down discussions on economic class. I don't think most are turned off by discussions on racism. I think people get turned off when that turns into an all white people and their culture sucks hate fest. I think people are turned off and resent when people weaponize racism to shut down discussions on economic class. Same with antisemitism, islamophobia, and the rest. When identity is used as a weapon to shut down discussions on economic class, warmongering, or some other issues it's not a way forward for bridge building. I realize I'm somewhat painting with broad strokes on this, but it's some of what I see as roadblocks. Some people are truly identity reductionist in their politics and that's fine if they're honest about it. Same goes for class reductionists I would say. None of that is to say that racism, sexism, and bigotry doesn't exist. None of that is to say that racism, sexism, and bigotry doesn't play a part in elections. A bit disjointed, but that's some of what I see from my perch at least. Cheers and kudos for the discussion you're bringing to the table. More of this, and less of X, Bluesky, and Facebook meme politics is a good thing I think.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
31. Thanks again
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:06 AM
Saturday

You are making many good observations.

I would ask you to consider if "all men suck hate fests" and "all white people and their culture sucks hate fests" are actually happening. People are talking about race and gender as social roles, and institutional bias, not as personal qualities.

If it is a matter of people shutting down discussions on economic class, which I think is happening right on these threads, then that would be the complaint, yes? and not "all men suck hate fests" and "all white people and their culture sucks hate fests."

"Look at all we've done for you" is also happening right here on this thread, as if people don't know from their own experience whether or not they are struggling. It is condescending.

In the absence of talking about economics and class, it is just about impossible to talk about racism and misogyny, since both are subsets of class struggle. The economic advantage comes first, then come the rationalizations. Slavery in the colonies preceded racism, for example. Holding anyone down anywhere holds us all down everywhere. It is economic advantage that drives that, not beliefs or ideologies.

Here is another good article on this topic, written on the eve of the election.

If Harris Loses Today, This Is Why

By Milan Loewer

Excerpts -

The strength of economic populist messaging needs to be understood in the broader context of growing distrust of political and economic institutions, especially among those who feel left behind by postindustrial social change. For those who made it to the top, the new winner-take-all economy has produced tremendous fortunes and concentrations of power, while those who have not fared as well – especially blue-collar workers – are increasingly disillusioned with the status quo and pessimistic about the future.

But it’s not just working-class voters who feel that the country is headed in the wrong direction. In the face of widening inequality, trust in the political establishment has never been lower; fewer people than ever identify with either party; 70 percent of Americans believe that powerful interests are rigging the economic system; only 40 percent of lower-income Americans believe that it is still possible to achieve the “American dream”; and almost no one believes that the country is “headed in the right direction.” In this context, it’s no surprise that the strong populist message we tested – which calls out “billionaire crooks, big corporations, and the politicians in Washington who serve them” – performed so well with Pennsylvanians, and especially with working-class Pennsylvanians.



In the weeks leading up to the election, however, the campaign has attempted to distance itself from anything that even remotely smells of an anti-elite economic agenda, backtracking on previous commitments regarding price controls and capital gains taxes. Instead, the New York Times reports that the Harris campaign has turned to friends on Wall Street for campaign strategy and policy advice, prompting billionaire Mark Cuban to gleefully declare that the “progressive principles…of the Democratic Party…are gone. It’s Kamala Harris’s party now.”

https://jacobin.com/2024/11/harris-trump-election-messaging-populism-elites

Response to Cirsium (Reply #31)

Timewas

(2,321 posts)
3. Can this gap be bridged?
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 02:59 PM
Dec 20

Only if they get their heads out of their asses a recognize that the (lower) middle class exists and they pay attention to their needs.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
7. Apparently the answer is "no"
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:16 PM
Dec 20

Judging by the first few responses, the answer to the question is "no" the gap cannot be bridged.

leftstreet

(36,417 posts)
4. This makes no sense.
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 03:18 PM
Dec 20

Working class voters didn't flock to Trump. His vote totals aren't the issue here.

Harris failed to draw out her own base of supporters. None of them would have voted for Trump


Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
9. Not sure I understand
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:26 PM
Dec 20

I don't know what you are looking at. I don't think anyone said that blue collar voters "flocked" to Trump. However, blue collar workers have been moving to the Republicans. When looking at the results from the recent election here in Michigan, it is clear that the higher the average income in any given county, the better the Harris/Walz ticket performed, while the lower the average income in a county, the worse the Harris/Walz ticket performed. That is a big change from the way people voted in the past.

Who exactly is "her own base of supporters" and why did they not come out and why would they never have voted for Trump? Many people who did vote for Biden and Obama and Clinton did in fact vote for Trump.

Why are vote totals "not the issue?" We are talking about election results after all.

leftstreet

(36,417 posts)
23. This wasn't a "class revolt" as the author suggests
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 06:02 PM
Dec 20

Trump didn't pick up all the voters (the reliably Dem base) who didn't show up for Harris

That's all I meant

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
24. Understood
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 06:08 PM
Dec 20

Thanks. No class revolt would pick up all of the people in the working the class. However you are right i you are saying that many blue collar voters are still with the Democratic party. There has been a steady leakage of that support, to the point that the support for the two parties has completely flipped. The poorest counties went for Trump, the wealthiest counties went for Harris. That is remarkable, and it is a sign of what could be called a "class revolt."

RANDYWILDMAN

(2,931 posts)
5. You gotta be kidding me
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 03:43 PM
Dec 20

We ran a person of color from Oakland who went to a black college worked at Mcdonalds and became an attorney, through hard work...not nearly Liberal enough for me personally..but I could see her evolving into it.

and a guy from Minnesota, who cut child poverty, gave families paid leave was for legalized weed, was in the national guard and was a high school football coach.

They ran a sociopath rich kid thief, sexual predator, business failure who cheated his blue collar workers out of money and who is old and demented. His side kick a VP private equity lackey who cribbed a story as an everyman by living with his grandparents for a summer and writing about how their friends can't by

We had the policies in Build back better a tiny majority and two nameless former members of our coalition wouldn't go along with it and repubs never cross their party to help struggling americans....or impeach Ahole's who deserve far worse then they have gotten

I think that article masks some massive racism and misogyny

Aristus

(68,658 posts)
8. I know. More "Here's every thing the Democrats did wrong."
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:18 PM
Dec 20

Instead of "The USA's massive electorate of garbage people voted for the garbage candidate."

WarGamer

(15,769 posts)
11. the answer is MUCH deeper than those things you mention.
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:33 PM
Dec 20

The Party gave off a vibe of disregarding blue collar folks...

Like it or not, that's what the votes show.

This isn't the DEM Party of old... too much effort to woo Republicans and neocons.

JI7

(90,901 posts)
15. No it didn't. That's what racists say. They have no complaints about Elon Musk
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:39 PM
Dec 20

and they have no problem with Trump.

Becsuse they are white.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
16. They do?
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:44 PM
Dec 20

Racists say this? "The Party gave off a vibe of disregarding blue collar folks...Like it or not, that's what the votes show. This isn't the DEM Party of old... too much effort to woo Republicans and neocons?" I don't think so.

Implying that a post you disagree with is racist is not a good thing to do.

JI7

(90,901 posts)
17. It's not good to deny bigotry exists. Elites mean Beyonce
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:47 PM
Dec 20

and Oprah. But no complaints about the billionaires a Trump is appointing and hanging out with.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
19. I would never do that
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:55 PM
Dec 20

I agree with you that it is not good to deny bigotry exists.

I have plenty of complaints about the billionaires a Trump is appointing and hanging out with.

I didn't say anything about Beyonce nor about Oprah. Since they support the Democrats therefore we can't criticize the recent campaign? That doesn't make any sense. If we criticize the recent campaign then we therefore have no complaints about Trump? That doesn't make any sense, either.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
25. I am interested
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 06:12 PM
Dec 20

I am interested in hearing your point of view, whether or not I agree with it. Can you explain what you are trying to say? I could be wrong, but I think you are saying that racism is the prime factor in the recent loss, and further you are saying that anyone who says otherwise is actually supporting, defending or promoting racism? Yes?

ShazzieB

(18,927 posts)
36. Not going to pretend what?
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 04:20 PM
Saturday

Who is asking you to pretend anything? I'm not seeing it.

ShazzieB

(18,927 posts)
32. I don't follow you.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 04:02 PM
Saturday

"That's what racists say.'

What is "what racists say"? I don't see anything in the post you were replying to that sounded like anything racists say.

Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
12. Of course
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:34 PM
Dec 20

Thanks for your input. I suspect that you will be in the majority with that opinion. But my question is not so much which side is right, but rather can the gap between the two factions be bridged? Are you a "no" on that?

Of course the Democratic candidates were vastly superior. I didn't and wouldn't say otherwise. That makes the question even more important. How did we lose? To Trump!! Should we not be looking at that?

Can you describe the racism and misogyny you see in the article? I am not in any way advocating backing down or compromising on either the fight against racism nor the fight against misogyny, by the way.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
20. Who said that?
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:58 PM
Dec 20

That is a bizarre comment. No one said or implied that "Black women are the elites."

The upper 20% is mostly white folks, and it is the upper 20% we are talking about.

betsuni

(27,314 posts)
18. Oh dear, trying very very hard to do the Republicans are the Working Class Party bullshit. LOL
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 05:50 PM
Dec 20

Everything's wrong in this article.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
22. Thanks
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 06:02 PM
Dec 20

Thanks for weighing in. Nothing that I said and nothing in the article suggests that "the Republicans are the Working Class Party." Of course they are not.

k55f5r

(458 posts)
26. This is utter b*******.
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 07:36 PM
Dec 20

Biden ushered in 4 years of prosperity for construction workers + the and the infrastructure workers that service the construction industry.
This is after 4 years of promises by Trump. That infrastructure would start next week. Biden invested in billions and all the union workers are busy as all get out. The problem was poor messaging.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
27. It started way before Biden
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 08:10 PM
Dec 20

The move to the Republicans by blue collar workers started 40 years ago. It has reached a critical level. There is no question that the two parties have flipped on income levels.

Of course Biden is better than Trump. That is a very low bar. Could it get any lower?

What do you mean by "messaging" and how would you improve it?

Do you not think that millions actually are desperate?

Which part is utter b*******?




ananda

(30,944 posts)
28. One again elitism is bullshit. The real driver of the vote was hate.
Fri Dec 20, 2024, 08:21 PM
Dec 20

This includes white supremacy and misogyny.

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)
30. Thanks
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 12:49 AM
Saturday

That is the prevalent view. The party will probably continue to be dominated by that view.

So would you say that there is no way to bridge the gap, then? The focus will be on class or on bigotry, but not both? Secretary Clinton did win the popular vote, and so did Barack Obama. Why were white supremacy and misogyny not the determining factors in those elections?

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