'When You Leave Israel and Enter Gaza, You Are God': Inside the Minds of IDF Soldiers Who Commit War Crimes

[WhiskeyGrinder]

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-12-23/ty-article-opinion/.premium/when-you-enter-gaza-you-are-god-inside-the-minds-of-idf-soldiers-who-commit-war-crimes/00000193-f2a4-dc18-a3db-fee62b540000

archive link: https://archive.is/O8rGB

Moral injury occurs when soldiers act against their moral values and beliefs or participate as bystanders. Those injured in this way experience guilt and shame, and are prone to depression, anxiety and suicidal impulses. The IDF provides month-long intensive treatment to traumatized soldiers, some of whom have been morally injured, in Rear Rehabilitation Centers (RRCs). Subsequently, half of these soldiers are discharged as unfit for military duty.

(snip)

"A new commander came to us. We went out with him on the first patrol at six in the morning. He stops. There's not a soul in the streets, just a little 4-year-old boy playing in the sand in his yard. The commander suddenly starts running, grabs the boy, and breaks his arm at the elbow and his leg here. Stepped on his stomach three times and left. We all stood there with our mouths open. Looking at him in shock ... I asked the commander: "What's your story?" He told me: These kids need to be killed from the day they are born. When a commander does that, it becomes legit."

(snip)

4. A large group of followers consisted of soldiers with no prior inclination to violence. Their behavior was most influenced by junior officers' modeling and the company's norms. Some followers who committed atrocities reported moral injuries: "I felt like, like, like a Nazi ... it looked exactly like we were actually the Nazis and they were the Jews."

(snip)My examination of the data indicated a similar grouping of soldiers with some significant differences. Most notably, the Callous and Ideologically Violent groups appear to be larger, more extreme and to act out their ideology in defiance of IDF's standards and the weakened justice system.

[ZRB]

1. Hamas should surrender

This won't end with them clinging to power. Surrender and end the war.

[Big Blue Marble]

4. You are blaming this behavior on Hamas?

This is not about Hamas. This is about fully exterminating a people and their culture.

[Big Blue Marble]

12. That would be tragic. N/T

[Avalon Sparks]

16. "Look what you made us do" is the mentality of abusers & psychopaths

The claim that Hamas is responsible not only for its own atrocities but also every atrocity committed by Israel has to be one the most disingenuous and morally bankrupt talking points of this whole horrific episode.

[Orrex]

27. It's the only card that Bibi's apologists have to play

[Orrex]

26. It's hilarious that you imagine Hamas' surrender would end Bibi's deliberate war of aggression

Hamas is a vile terrorist regime that should be wiped out to its last member, but even if that happens, Netanyahu won't end his war of choice.

[Celerity]

2. archive link

https://archive.ph/GHARn

[malaise]

3. Brainwashed monsters

That is all

[DeepWinter]

5. Trashing yet another pro-Terrorist thread

[Celerity]

6. false framing, Haaretz is one of the Israeli newspapers of record and is simply documenting things that you do not like

Your post also implies the OP and/or anyone who takes issue with the IDF's actions described in it are 'pro-terrorist', which is personal attack targeting with a negative call-out designed to induce a chilling effect on discussion.

[Mike 03]

8. Totally agree. I'm a Haaretz subscriber.

Haaretz is an excellent newspaper. That post you are replying to isn't thoughtful, to put it mildly.

[Mosby]

14. The Changing Face of Haaretz: From Critical Voice to Questionable Agenda

The Changing Face of Haaretz: From Critical Voice to Questionable Agenda

As someone who has lived outside of Israel for about a decade but still feels deeply connected to it, Haaretz newspaper has been my primary source for news, analyses, and opinions. Well-known for being a “newspaper for thinking people,” Haaretz has always stood out intellectually compared to other Israeli newspapers (in fact, I published quite a few opinion pieces in this newspaper in the past).

As is known, the newspaper has always had a clear leftist inclination. Therefore, not surprisingly, many within the Israeli left (including myself) have chosen it to be their main source of news commentary.

However, since the outbreak of war, it seems that the newspaper has primarily become a mechanism seeking to promote a certain worldview, even at the expense of compromising its basic and superior commitment to its readers: presenting facts as they are.

Editors, newsroom staff, and writers at the paper are focused on disseminating an agenda that seeks to portray Israel in its worst light. Often, this is done by relying on information from sources whose reliability is at least questionable. For example, one out of many, the newspaper persistently repeats the casualty figures in Gaza and their types (“most of them women and children”), knowing that the source of this information is the Hamas Health Ministry, entirely controlled by the unreliable Hamas terror group. The same organization currently claims that the vast majority of those killed on October 7 were victims of the IDF and that the abduction of women and children was an “unintended consequence” of the “chaos prevailing in the area”.

My difficulty with Haaretz and its editors and writers is not the audible criticism they level against the Israeli government (the most disastrous government we’ve known) or their criticism of the war (although Haaretz is good at criticizing, it is much less good at suggesting reasonable alternatives). The difficulty lies in the realization that Haaretz’s writers “come in bad faith.” The impression is that they are not interested in the welfare of the State of Israel.

Many of its writers exude self-hatred and hollow righteousness. Their opinions, even if not all of them, seek and act to further demoralize Israelis. To make them feel more defeated and pessimistic. All of this stems from what sometimes seems like a pathological joy of bitter people, haters of their people, and themselves.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-changing-face-of-haaretz-from-critical-voice-to-questionable-agenda/

Haaretz co-owner Leonid Nevzlin criticizes publisher’s remarks on Israel’s wartime actions

Amos Schocken, the newspaper’s publisher, described Israel’s governance in these territories as a “cruel apartheid regime” and referred to certain Palestinian terrorists as “freedom fighters.

Leonid Nevzlin, co-owner of Haaretz, publicly expressed his strong disagreement on Friday with statements made by Amos Schocken, the newspaper’s publisher, regarding Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza.

Schocken’s remarks at a Haaretz conference in London described Israel’s governance in these territories as a “cruel apartheid regime” and referred to certain Palestinian terrorists as “freedom fighters.”

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-827303

Haaretz is trash.

[Avalon Sparks]

15. Offended by everything, ashamed by nothing.

May Israel receive her karma thousand fold for her barbaric crimes against humanity.

[Mosby]

17. No such thing as karma

Just saying.

[Avalon Sparks]

20. More lies

Ignored

[Intractable]

9. unrec

[Intractable]

7. "breaks his arm at the elbow and his leg here. "

It's not enough that they killed him. They had to cause torturous pain first -- a four-year-old boy.

I was born Jewish. I cast off all religion at an early age based on the absurdity of the premises.

Every time Israel takes a bomb, I feel more associated with the Jewish people. Whenever Israel launches one, I feel less Jewish.

I have never felt less Jewish. I refuse to think of Israelis and those who back them as "my people."

[maxsolomon]

11. War makes monsters of combatants.

Atrocities become justifiable. Atrocities beget atrocities. In every conflict, some soldiers fail the test.

The sooner this is over, the better for all, including IDF soldiers tasked with the impossible job of rooting out Hamas.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. suppertime kick

[spapeggy]

18. How many hasbara here

Are posting from Tel Aviv?

[Celerity]

22. The proper syntax is how much (not how many) is being posted, and it's not just limited to coming from Israel proper

Public diplomacy of Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_of_Israel#Terms_and_types

Hasbara was formally introduced to the Zionist vocabulary by Nahum Sokolow. Hasbara (Hebrew: הַסְבָּרָה ) has no direct English translation, but roughly means "explaining". It is a communicative strategy that "seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified". As it focuses on providing explanations about one's actions, hasbara has been called a "reactive and event-driven approach".

snip

Sources for disseminating information

Various branches of the Israeli government as well as pro-Israeli civil society organizations engage in public diplomacy efforts:

IDF Spokesperson's Unit: The spokesperson's unit of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) plays a central role in the Israeli government's public diplomacy. The IDF's English-language Facebook page is one of the most-followed army social media worldwide. The unit has become Israel's largest spokesperson unit, with more than 400 officers, civilians and soldiers. There is also a reserve unit of almost 1,200 soldiers and officers. As of 2017, the unit has 15 staff members that are responsible only for the IDF's social media platforms to reach audiences abroad. As of 2015, the IDF is active on 30 different social media platforms.

Spokesperson's Unit of COGAT: The Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), the IDF unit responsible for coordination and liaison with the Palestinian Authority,[16] has a spokesperson's unit of its own as well as its own social media channels in English and Arabic.

Prime Minister's Office (PMO): Within the Israel Prime Minister's Office, the Government Press Office (GPO), the Public Diplomacy Directorate and the National Information Directorate are involved in public diplomacy efforts. The National Information Directorate is in charge of coordinating "the public diplomacy activities of various governmental bodies in foreign and security affairs, and on socioeconomic issues" (Israel PMO s.a.[further explanation needed]). The Public Diplomacy Directorate is responsible for communicating the Prime Minister's and the government's policies and decisions. The directorate is headed by the Prime Minister's Media Advisor.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA): The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs also has a Public Diplomacy Directorate. "The directorate consists of the Media and Public Affairs Division, the Division for Cultural Affairs and Scientific Cooperation and the Bureau for Religious Affairs and Relations with the Jewish Diaspora. The Media and Public Affairs Division comprises one department in charge of 'branding', a department in charge of collecting information, producing visual media content such as videos and drafting policy papers for briefing Israeli missions all around the world, as well as the spokesperson's bureau, which is in charge of the relationship with the press. Furthermore, the division also has an academic department and a small department dealing with issues of civil society affairs, especially the battle against BDS. Finally, the ministry has also a Digital Diplomacy Department, which is in charge of all digital channels of the ministry".

Pro-Israeli civil society organizations: Various civil society organizations and initiatives from Israel and abroad support the Israeli public diplomacy efforts. Prominent examples are StandWithUs, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), Christians United for Israel (CUFI), the Israel on Campus Coalition, the AMCHA Initiative and "The David Project".

Masbirim Israel: In 2010, the Israeli Ministry of Information and Diaspora Affairs launched the PR campaign "Masbirim Israel". The campaign intended to encourage Israeli citizens to contribute to improving Israel's image by talking with their international contacts about the country.

snip

Shaping foreign public opinion

Israeli officials have emphasized the importance of molding American public opinion to influence U.S. foreign policy favourably toward Israel. For example, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said, "In the last 30 years, I appeared innumerable times in the American media and met thousands of American leaders. I developed a certain ability to influence public opinion." Netanyahu made this statement in the context of the Israeli government's decade-long effort to pressure for military action against Iran. He added that this "is the most important thing: the ability to sway public opinion in the United States against the regime in Iran."

snip

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License

[Rob H.]

32. I can think of at least one who might fit that criteria

I’m actually shocked he hasn’t chimed in yet.

[Jit423]

19. Aren't European Jew who migrated to Israel in 40's the real anti-Semites?

The genocide that is going on in Gaza and other parts of the ME has almost totally wiped out the population with blood line to the Hebrews of the Bible.

[Mosby]

33. Who are you talking about?

What "blood line to the Hebrews" is being killed off?

[Blue_Tires]

21. Arab-Americans overwhelmingly voted for King Donnie

Multiple Arab-American groups officially endorsed him... If they didn't care about Gaza, why should I continue to?

[Celerity]

23. No, they did not. AP Votecast & Fox found 63 percent of Muslims voted Harris, CAIR found 53% voted Stein, neither

found what you claimed:

Arab-Americans overwhelmingly voted for King Donnie

I think CAIR's results are skewed (I think they had a massive undercount of Harris votes) far more than the other two.



In historic shift, American Muslim and Arab voters desert Democrats

https://www.voanews.com/a/in-historic-shift-american-muslim-and-arab-voters-desert-democrats/7854995.html

In a historic shift, Muslim and Arab Americans broke with two decades of Democratic loyalty, splitting most of their votes between President-elect Donald Trump and third-party candidates in Tuesday’s presidential election, according to preliminary findings of two prominent advocacy groups. The exodus, fueled by anger over the Biden administration’s handling of the war in Gaza, helped Trump win key battleground states, especially Michigan, as he defeated Vice President Kamala Harris to win a second term in the White House.

A nationwide exit poll of more than 1,300 voters by the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) found that significantly less than 50% of Muslim voters backed Harris. That compares with an estimated 65% to 70% that reportedly voted for President Joe Biden in 2020. The lion’s share of the Muslim vote went to Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate who advocated for ending U.S. military support for Israel, or Trump, who received the backing of several Arab and Muslim community leaders and elected officials in Michigan.

A full picture of the Muslim vote is yet to emerge. The CAIR survey was at odds with the Associated Press’s Votecast survey, which found the vice president captured 63% of Muslim votes overall. But voting patterns found by the CAIR poll marked a sharp departure from the last 20 years during which Muslim Americans had overwhelmingly supported the Democratic ticket, according to Robert McCaw, CAIR’s director of government affairs. “This is the first time in more than 20 years that the Muslim community has been split between three candidates,” McCaw said in an interview with VOA.

The shift in the Muslim vote echoed among Arab American voters, who had backed Democratic presidential nominees over Republican candidates 2-to-1 for more than two decades, said James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute. The group did not do an exit poll. But going into the election, its polling indicated that the Arab vote would be split 42% to 41% between Trump and Harris, and Zogby said the election result likely reflected that chasm.

snip

https://www.instagram.com/muslims_harris/p/DCIh52_MqMC/

https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-exit-poll-of-muslim-voters-reveals-surge-in-support-for-jill-stein-and-donald-trump-steep-decline-for-harris/

https://apnews.com/article/election-2024-trump-catholic-voters-f73f2c74b1e21cc96ff42a671220dbdb

[Blue_Tires]

24. A vote for Stein was still a vote for Trump

Since Jill was bankrolled by Republicans and Putinist chaos agents for the sole purpose of stealing Dem voters...

Either way, they clearly didn't want Dems so they damn well better be happy with what they got now. And I'm so very anxious to see how vocal they all are about the Gaza issue moving forward. My guess is they'll conveniently forget the issue entirely even as Gaza gets erased off the map and King Donnie announces his future beachfront resort and casino to be built on the graves of dead Palestinians.

[Celerity]

25. That is not what you claimed, and only the suspect CAIR poll shows Harris not the winner of a majority of Muslim votes.

None show what you claimed, especially the AP and FOX massive polls.

Arab-Americans overwhelmingly voted for King Donnie

I still say CAIR was skewed via their methodology, a skewing that massively under-counted Harris votes. But even there, Trump was nowhere near 'Arab-Americans overwhelmingly voting for Trump''

That is what you claimed and it is simply not factual. Words matter. I am not going to entertain ex post facto revisionism of your claim that you are now trying to effect.

Yes, a vote for Stein (IF the voter otherwise would have voted for Harris, BUT IF they would have voted for Trump, then it hurts Trump) was the same as a blank vote for POTUS (IF the voter otherwise would have voted for Harris, BUT IF they would have voted for Trump, then it hurts Trump) or a Harris voter staying home (Trump voters staying home obviously hurt Trump).

YES, all three of those above scenarios hurt Harris (as long as they were potential Harris voters), as it denied her a vote and I CONDEMN all 3 types, but they are not the double hammer blow that happens when a Harris voter flipped and actually voted for Trump.

In that case, Harris both loses a vote AND Trump gains one.

The same goes for Trump voter who switches to Harris. It is also a double hammer blow, as Trump loses a vote AND Harris gains one.

IF a Muslim Trump voter was Trump all along (and every election some Muslims vote Rethug, no matter what), then there is neither the double blow nor a single blow.

Same for some of the Stein voters. Some are just never going to vote for any Dem or any Rethug. That happened in 2016, when 40 plus per cent of Stein voters (we are now speaking of all demographics, not just Muslim voters) said if no Stein, then they would have not voted (or voted blank for POTUS).

[Blue_Tires]

28. Fine, I'll stand slightly corrected...

The bottom line is they didn't support Harris...

Surely Jill Fucking Stein will fix the situation in Gaza for them, then? Maybe Donnie can make her a special envoy after all the help she gave him... And no matter who they fucking voted for, I'd better see them be just as vocal about the troubles in Gaza after their boy Donnie is coronated... I want to see protests, matches and folks camping outside of mar-a-lago.

[Celerity]

29. We both agree that Harris did get hurt by far too many Muslims not voting for her. And I, like you, condemn those who

did not vote for her.

They are in for a RUDE awakening, and I have no pity whatsoever. They were fucking idiots.

cheers

[thebigidea]

30. When do the protests at Bedminster and Mar-a-Lago start?

Or does the GOP get a get out of jail free card and protests are postponed until the 2028 primaries and DNC?

[Rob H.]

31. There was a good article at Commondreams a few days ago, too

Excerpt follows; full article is here.

Israeli Troops Recount Indiscriminate Murder of Civilians in Gaza 'Kill Zone'
"We're killing civilians there who are then counted as terrorists," said one Israeli veteran, who added that random slayings have become "a competition between units" to see who can kill more people.

by Brett Wilkins
December 20, 2024

(snip)
One Division 252 veteran said: "For the division, the kill zone extends as far as a sniper can see. We're killing civilians there who are then counted as terrorists. The IDF spokesperson's announcements about casualty numbers have turned this into a competition between units. If Division 99 kills 150, the next unit aims for 200."

A commander in Division 252 said that out of 200 "militants" the IDF said one unit had killed, "only 10 were confirmed as known Hamas operatives. Yet no one questioned the public announcement about killing hundreds of militants."

A senior reserve commander asserted, "Calling ourselves the world's most moral army absolves soldiers who know exactly what we're doing."

"It means ignoring that for over a year, we've operated in a lawless space where human life holds no value," he added. "Yes, we commanders and combatants are participating in the atrocity unfolding in Gaza. Now everyone must face this reality."
(….)