I am sick of the slaughter in Gaza

[malaise]

Who is going to stop Bibi and the complicit West?

More innocents died today.

[Jose Garcia]

1. The Palestinian terrorists releasing all of the hostages would likely go a long way to achieving this

[womanofthehills]

7. Obviously, Bebe doesn't care about the hostages

If he got them all back, he would not stop the killing of innocents.

It’s just horrific- American drs saying they see hundreds of little kids with gun shot wounds to their heads. Now Gaga has the most kids with amputations in the world - thousands of toddlers with no legs and arms.

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

[Beastly Boy]

64. How did the need to get them back materialize?

I don't recall...

[arthritisR_US]

72. But when you look at the news and the genocide do you recall?

[Beastly Boy]

77. Social and for-profit news media knows jack shit about genocide,

so all I recall from these sources is cheap talk.

I feel sorry for those who get informed about matters of international law by the preponderance of talking heads and influencers. .

[arthritisR_US]

81. So who/where is your source of information?

[Beastly Boy]

95. It depends on what my purpose is.

If I want to entertain myself, I go to social and for-profit media: I am a fan of conspiracy theories, and nothing beats these sources for kicks and giggles.

On matters of international law, on the other hand, I go to the Hague Conventions, the Geneva Conventions and the Rome Convention.

For world news, I go to multiple news agency sources, and I don't jump to conclusions until I read past the headlines and the first paragraph and fact-check what I read.

[Voltaire2]

2. I've given up.

We are complicit in a genocide and basically nobody cares. Those who did care, for example the people involved in the campus protests, many of them have paid a heavy price. Dissent has been effectively suppressed.

When my grandchildren ask, in honesty I'll have to respond: 'I did nothing to stop it'.

[Mike 03]

20. I've given up too. Last year at this time I tended to have

Al Jazeera on in the office basically all day. I also sent comments to Biden, Harris and the State Department (and our U.N. ambassador) on a regular basis. But it was stupid and hopeless. Around July I had to stop paying attention to this entirely. I also subscribe to Haaretz but I haven't even been on that website since probably September.

[Kaleva]

83. What one does depends on how important the issue is

People like Gandhi, MLK. Malcom X, Nelson Mandela, Harvey Milk, the anti Vietnam War protestors and others risked being beaten, jailed or losing their lives fighting, usually by peaceful means, for what they believed in.

[Wounded Bear]

3. The "American people" voted to let it go on...

to its natural conclusion, which will be Israeli annexation and development.

[Martin Eden]

104. Would a Harris administration do more to stop it than Biden did?

I doubt it.

We all know Trump can only make things worse for Palestinians, so there was no effective vote for stopping the slaughter.

[msfiddlestix]

120. They've got their hotels and casinos designed and ready to go, as soon as the bloody mess is bulldozed over.

[Beastly Boy]

122. Who are "they"? Where are the designs?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

123. There's a "concept" of a design.

[Beastly Boy]

124. Oh... My bad. My total lack of compassion for humanity blinded me to a concept of a design. Shame on me.

[msfiddlestix]

131. .....

[elias7]

4. I blame Hamas for hiding in, around and under its women and children.

I blame Hamas for starting a war they could not possibly fight, knowing that the world would be receiving horrifying visual feeds of the children whose deaths are on those who have put and kept them in danger.

Kudos to Hamas for convincing the world that there is nothing wrong with hiding under hospitals and schools and mosques and homes.

I blame Hamas for blocking innocent civilian egress to safety zones

I blame Hamas for stealing food trucks and selling them to their own citizens

Kudos to Hamas for convincing the world that the sovereign nation they attacked is not only responsible for feeding, providing water and electricity to the entity that attacked them, but also responsible for a starvation that is actually non-existent and could only happen because Hamas is hijackung aid trucks.

I blame Hamas for failing to negotiate/adhere to a meaningful ceasefire or surrender given how many of their own people have died.

I blame the media for not realizing that no one has died of natural causes in Gaza for a year (all counted as war casualties), for not realizing that Hamas has changed the age and sex of many dead so as to increase women and children counts, for failing to report that there have been more births than deaths in Gaza this year

I blame the media for failing to recognize the efforts the IDF goes to warn citizens to clear areas that are going to be bombed because… Hamas… but instead claim “genocide” when targeting civilians is exactly what Israel is trying not to do

But hey, it’s Chanukah so a guy can dream right?

Happy Holidays to you…

[brush]

6. Curious, no blame from you for the murderous warmongers Netanyahu/likud/IDF commanders who keep bombing the shit...

out of women, children, hospitals, refugee camps/ food/aide trucks and even International Kitchen operations to feed the starving Gazans...but nothing from you about blaming such killers.

[Beastly Boy]

63. A curious deflection into something that's only been mentioned a couple of dozen times in this thread alone...

[brush]

65. Which should tell you how biased, one-sided unfeeling and bereft of humanity your op is. Get a clue.

[Beastly Boy]

67. Tell me more about the bias. and give more examples, please.

Your previous post was not nearly redundant enough in this respect.

And forgive me for not making conspicuous spectacle of my humanity. I don't get a kick out of routinely showing it off.

[brush]

69. Oh, it's you, BB. I hadn't noticed before. I know ou're totally one-sided on the matter...

and I feel for you as you seem like an ok guy...except for you total lack of empathy for the suffering of innocents in Gaza.

[Beastly Boy]

73. My empathy is no one's business but my own.

Like I said, I am not keen on wearing it on my sleeve. Suffice it to say that my empathy for Gazan civilians, in deed and not in word, is likely to exceed that of the most vocal performers here on DU.

But it doesn't include performative outrage, which I find repulsive, so you may be making judgements about me without knowing anything about me.

[brush]

75. Let's not go any further with this, pls.

[Beastly Boy]

79. That is my wish, and I appreciate your offer.

[womanofthehills]

9. When America drs are seeing toddlers with gun shots in their heads

DAILY??? Killing 5 journalists in their Press Vehicle yesterday??? Killing and torturing doctors ????? Dropping bombs on families of drs, writers, professors- give us a break about Hamas hiding everywhere.

Just reported this week - a four yr old was playing in his yard, Israeli commander walked up to him and broke his arm and leg.

We have all seen the videos.

[IbogaProject]

12. You are aware they came to power directly with Bibi support years ago?

And that support continued right up to Oct 7.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

That may not cover all the details of his support of them when they rose to power but I don't wan't to argue about sources of information and I'll leave it at this.

I just searched Google for Netanyahu supported hamas rise

I had seen the above article soon after Oct 7 last year.

[people]

13. Did you see these articles from Haaretz?

https://www.haaretz.com/search-results?q=killing+zones

Israel Created 'Kill Zones' in Gaza. Anyone Who Crosses Into Them Is Shot



https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-18/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-expose-arbitrary-killings-and-rampant-lawlessness-in-gazas-netzarim-corridor/00000193-da7f-de86-a9f3-fefff2e50000

Terrorist': IDF Soldiers Expose Arbitrary Killings and Rampant Lawlessness in Gaza's Netzarim Corridor



Random slaughter of civilians by anyone, including Israel, U.S., Russia, Syria or any other country is wrong and abhorrent. You must recognize that.

[ZRB]

15. This. So much this.

I also find it interesting that there's a lot of overlap between those whining and crying about a made-up genocide, and those who are totally fine with vigilante murder (if they don't personally like the victim). That's why their frequent "all human life is precious" posts fall flat with me.

[erodriguez]

22. Israel imilitary just assumes that any Palestinian man is Hamas

No skin off their back.

[snot]

26. Israel's produced precious little evidence that

there've actually been any Hamas fighters hiding out in all the hospitals and other protected facilities it's bombed; and per international law, (1) the burden of proving that a protected facility is harboring fighters is on the one who would attack the facility, (2) if there's any doubt that such a facility is harboring fighters, the attacker must assume that it isn't, (3) the attack must be proportionate, meaning that while it may seek to neutralize enemy fighters, it may not gratuitously bomb the entire hospital or other facility to the ground, and (4) any military operation around or within such facilities must take all feasible precautions to minimize harm to patients, medical staff, and other civilians, including effective warnings and a reasonable opportunity for patients et al. to be evacuated.

[PhylliPretzel]

30. What you write

is zionist propaganda.
There is no proof to these allegations.

[Beastly Boy]

71. Except confessions of Hamas leaders of doing just that.

Recorded on video, written into their charter, repeated and practiced daily.

Those Hamas leaders must be very effective and zealous Zionist propagandists!

[arthritisR_US]

80. Post those videos, we would like to see your proof.

[Beastly Boy]

96. If you insist.

&t=8s

&t=42s

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-ghazi-hamad-we-will-repeat-october-seven-until-israel-annihilated-victims-everything-we-do-justified

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-leader-abroad-khaled-mashal-october-seven-israeli-civlians-no-apologies-hizbullah-arab-countries-do-more

&t=46s

Ok, you saw my proof. Who else were you speaking for? Will you show them the proof now?

[Dave Bowman]

87. "confessions of Hamas leaders"

Confessions obtained under torture aren't worth a damn thing.

[Beastly Boy]

97. Doesn't look like these Hamas terrorists are being tortured, does it?

&t=8s

&t=42s

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-ghazi-hamad-we-will-repeat-october-seven-until-israel-annihilated-victims-everything-we-do-justified

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-leader-abroad-khaled-mashal-october-seven-israeli-civlians-no-apologies-hizbullah-arab-countries-do-more

&t=46s

[uponit7771]

32. This doesn't work for BB any more

[Avalon Sparks]

42. Look what you made us do" is the mentality of abusers & psychopaths.

The claim that Hamas is responsible not only for its own atrocities but also every atrocity committed by Israel has to be the most disingenuous and morally bankrupt talking points of this whole horrific episode.

Israel is the occupying force. A brutal settler, colonial, apartheid regime on course of becoming a pariah state for genocide, collective punishment and the butchering of thousands of children.
Cope.

[AloeVera]

56. I blame the gullible and/or complicit for uncritically spewing Israeli propaganda.

That is totally discredited by facts and reality as stated by even IDF reservists who have been sickened by what they have witnessed and done. The IDF are shooting any civilians who unwittingly enter their kill-zones - kids too, looking for food and water - and leaving the bodies for the dogs to eat. Those civilians are of course then counted by the IDF as Hamas terrorists. Obviously not counted as civilians, those dogs tell no tales.

Just one example, there is even worse. All of the ugliness readily available to anyone who dares - or cares- to look in search of the unvarnished truth, leaving the propaganda behind.

I blame the IDF for bombing targets the moment they enter their homes thus ensuring their entire families and neighbours are killed too. The AI program "Where's Daddy" created for this purpose by some very twisted minds.

I blame the IDF and Israel for the total destruction where even water towers, water pipes and sewage treatment plants are bombed, repair crews also, thus ensuring gross suffering and spread of diseases and preventable deaths.

I blame the IDF and Israel for their systematic, planned and deliberate blockade of aid and food. To the point now where aid is reduced to 65 trucks a day, whereas it was 500 before Oct. 7th. I blame them for their malice and inhumanity.

I will never forgive Israel, nor their complicit partners and their propaganda-filled enablers.

I think about the suffering in Gaza and am horrified beyond words.

Gaza is now a land of well-fed wild dogs. I will never understand how it was allowed to come to this, but I do know the LIES and propaganda played a big part. Regrettably, they still do, but their power and reach is surely diminishing.

[akbacchus_BC]

111. Don't support Starbucks either, every cup of beverage purchased, a percentage goes to Israel. People

need to be aware of blood countries they are supporting!

[Beastly Boy]

125. Are you telling me there are still progressive types overpaying for that muddy piss just to show off?

Man, they must be some uncompromising Zionists, willing to suffer this indignity for Israel's sake!

[comradebillyboy]

113. Spot on! thank you.

[Fichefinder]

5. Congo and Darfur are much more concerning

[womanofthehills]

10. No place is more concerning than the other

All atrocities are concerning!

[Arazi]

11. Uh huh. How curious far worse slaughters NEVER get mentioned

… cough #NoJews cough…

[comradebillyboy]

115. Excellent observation. There are any number of

places in Africa and the Middle East where the horrific slaughter is ignored because no Jews are involved.

[iemanja]

85. Then please do post some OPs on them

with information to educate DU's readership. That might be helpful, but it requires caring about those places besides their rhetorical purpose of excusing Israel for its actions.

[comradebillyboy]

116. Nobody really cares about those places because

Israel isn't doing the killing.

[Arazi]

8. No words for Sudan again I see...

With a FAR worse actual genocide and starving population

That is all ...

[quakerboy]

19. I'm curious

I genuinely don't know. Are my tax dollars funding the war in sudan? As an American, is my government propping up either side of that conflict?

[Arazi]

21. The OP is about the slaughter of innocents

No mention of US involvement.

Just death.

That’s what I was addressing. Only this conflict merits its own forum and hundreds of posts in GD when other FAR WORSE actual genocides and deliberate mass starvation events are happening right now.

They never get mentioned. Is it really about brutal human suffering in conflict zones or… 🤔

FWIW, the US is involved in providing humanitarian aid only to Sudan since there isn’t a Congressional mandate of several decades to arm one side there. We also supply one the largest humanitarian aid packages to Gaza and the West Bank. Plus we pay neighboring countries billions annually to * not* attack Israel

[quakerboy]

41. The dead and hungry

Are just as dead and hungry regardless of how one wants to classify a war.

But this is primarily a US discussion board. And, however small, we here on this board usually have a vote towards and a part in what is happening with things that the USA is involved in. So those conflicts are almost certain to loom larger and see more discussion here.

[Arazi]

43. US involvement isn't the point of the OP however

Just the suffering of innocents and who will “stop the slaughter and Bibi”. Why isn’t that question ever asked about what’s happening in Darfur? Or Congo?

We’ve certainly financially - either overtly or covertly - contributed to the death and destruction in many other genocides and mass starvation conflicts, yet only the I/P conflict ignites such fury. No other current or past crisis in the 20 years of DU elicits this reaction

[quakerboy]

48. Id say it is.

And thus your question answers itself.

Why is that the question about Bibi and not about Darfur.. Because America has (had?) power to effect change in Israel. Not so much in Darfur. Because, to the best of my knowledge, I am (via my citizenship), complicit in the deaths in Gaza, while I am, to the best of my knowledge, not complicit in the deaths in Darfur.

But you are always welcome to start the discussion about Darfur. Or Congo. Or continue to "whatabout" a discussion about their personal internal struggle over the tens of thousands of deaths in Gaza that someone else started. Because, at least for the moment, we still sorta have free speech.

[Arazi]

49. Why can't we effect change in Darfur? Or Congo?

Or all of the other FAR WORSE genocide and mass starvation conflicts going on right now? How do you know that?

(And I have tried to start discussions on other conflict areas- they sink like a stone. Nobody cares here)

[quakerboy]

74. How?

First off, I dont really believe in worse genocide. Dead is dead, starved is starved, suffering is suffering. No one wins a suffer-off, and trying to pit one abused group against another abused group.. seems disingenuous to me. A distraction from meaningful conversation.

That on the table, Ive literally never heard anyone propose any solution to Darfur other than hope and prayer. And if those worked, it surely would be solved by now. Do we have any actual levers that would resolve this other than bomb everyone till they hate us more than each other? And do I bear culpability in the situation in Darfur, as I do in Israel?

[Arazi]

92. Removing US aid would not stop Israeli action in Gaza

Pretty sure that point’s been beaten to death here.

Do you think that if the US removed itself entirely from the ME that our/your/the world’s gaze would turn to conflicts in Africa? Spoiler alert: we (a collective global “we”) have a long history of not giving a shit about those genocides and wars.

I stipulate that the real reason folks care so much about I/P to the exclusion of virtually anything else is because it’s Jews and Israel. Period

[quakerboy]

134. I dont agree. Period.

It may be for you. But it is not for me.

And the point beaten to death has been discussed, never agreed, and never actually tried.

As to the other.. less suffering is less suffering. Its not a suffering olympics, and I dont have to resolve every problem in the world for it to be worth trying to solve, or even just contemplate how one issue or area might be improved.

[iemanja]

82. I just did a search under your name for Darfur, Congo, and Sudan

I found no OPs on the first two and one on the second. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218535591
Yet you decided to make it about Jews, and implicitly, about Israel.

[Arazi]

93. It's not about *my* fixation

It’s about everyone else’s with Jews and Israel. Exactly my point

[iemanja]

78. It's a very short post and not difficult to read

It talks about the complicity of the West. The USA is part of the West. Why haven't you posted threads about the Darfur or Congo if you care so much?

[Arazi]

94. Again I repeat, it's not *my* fixation

It’s about everyone else’s fixation to the exclusion of anything else.

Perhaps do a search on their names to see if they’ve ever made threads on any other conflicts if they care so much about suffering innocents.

[sarisataka]

23. I'm curious

does a genocide only "count" if our tax dollars are involved?

If so, that would explain why so little attention is given to Darfur, Sudan, Nigeria, Myanmar, Congo, the Rohingya, the Uyghur, Tigrayans- all classed as genocide emergencies by Genocide Watch

[quakerboy]

40. There is a difference in power over the situation, in my perception

Aside from the option of sending troops into each of those locations, what power does the US have over each of these conflicts.

I currently perceive these as being very different. I'm open to being persuaded that i am incorrect on this

The dead are just as dead regardless of which conflict. A person suffering is suffering no matter where or why. But, at least for me personally, the ones that i have at least a 330,000,000'th of a vote to effect and that the taxes i pay may be causing bear far more personal contemplation/reflection.

[iemanja]

84. No, but it makes us as taxpayers complicit in the genocide

when we pay for it.

[Beastly Boy]

99. Just to show how superficial and fallacious this argument is,

consider your share of the taxes only making you complicit in Israel fighting Hamas, PIJ, Hezbollah, ISIS, Iran, as well as providing incredibly effective shelters and defenses for its ten million civilians, including women, children, and two million Palestinian Arabs, and my share of the taxes making me complicit in what you call genocide, to be condemned by all the self-appointed genocide experts for all eternity.

It's a win-win. Since I am aware of what genocide is and what it is not, I am impervious to being shamed by ill-informed purveyors of performative outrage, and you can rest easy knowing that your taxpayer dollars only go to the most worthy of causes.

Deal?

[womanofthehills]

53. 62,000 is the number of dead I see for Sudan

Including those unaccounted for under the rubble - 100,000 is a number often used for Gaza deaths. It’s all horrific and evil.

However, our tax dollars are funding the Gaza genocide and obviously there are more reporters in Gaza (although over 200 press people have been killed in Gaza) - the largest number of press killed in any world conflict. It’s the dead and dismembered kids of Gaza we are seeing day after day after day on our phones. This is dividing our country as the young are becoming more and more anti-war and hopefully they will have an impact.

[EX500rider]

66. Sudan: "..up to 150,000 people had been killed in the conflict across the country."

Famine has spread to five areas, with 24.6 million people - about half the population - in urgent need of food aid, the experts said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz0rp93vdnzo


"100,000 is a number often used for Gaza deaths."
More than 45,000 Palestinians have been killed in Israel's offensive, Gaza's health ministry says.

[iemanja]

76. Whataboutism

Doesn't make anything better other than showing your lack of concern for the dead in Gaza. You are free to post a thread on the Sudan anytime, and you could then stimulate all the discussion you want on that topic. Have you? Why not? The sole purpose seems to be a rather feeble attempt to distract from the slaughter of civilians by Israel. Major fail.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

14. me too

[perdita9]

16. Why do posts like this never mention Hamas?

I'm no fan of Bibi, but he's not the only bad guy in the equation

[BannonsLiver]

37. Because Hamas are "freedom fighters like Mandela"

According to some here.

[mr715]

52. Hamas:

Is a useful label.

I sure hope no one supports Hamas. We'd devolve into a metadiscussion about the rights of free speech within fundamentalist societies.


In re Bibi: if you want to play at Democracy, hold yourself to democracy's standards.

And yet - we just elected Trump so I don't want to moralize too hard.


MR

[womanofthehills]

54. Because it's not a war - it's a one way slaughter

The people of Gaza are trapped on a tiny peace of land. They have no army. It’s just a daily slaughter of women and children.

A moral army does shoot toddlers in the head day after day - this has been reported by American drs returning from Gaza.

[Beastly Boy]

62. So who's been killing IDF soldiers and Israeli civilians?

Who's been firing thousands of mnissiles from schools, hospitals and mosques into Israel?

Who's been holding hostages?

Who's been hiding in hundreds of miles of tunnels under schools, hospitals and mosques?

Who's been hiding behind Gazan civilians?

Who's been "regrouping" in designated humanitarian areas?

Let me guess... starving children, right?

[lees1975]

70. Hamas and Hezbollah did not form in a political vacuum.

There's a long history there and there's more than one side to it. And the trouble didn't start on October 7th.

[Beastly Boy]

102. Of course not. They wouldn't exist if Iran didn't prop them up in their quest to destabilize the entire region.

[lees1975]

114. The reason for their formation and existence was present long before Iran got involved.

Try European colonialism and economic exploitation, specifically the British Empire's way of handling "subjugated" people, prior to World War 2 and that will give you a good idea of where most of the motivation behind both organizations came from. But I have few expectations that there will ever be much understanding of it in this country.

[Beastly Boy]

119. Hamas was founded in 1987. Hezbollah was founded in 1985.

Don't try to pull that European colonialism and economic exploitation BS on me: over half of Israel's Jews are of Middle Eastern and North African descent, who have nothing to do with Europe.

...Don't tell me this is news to you!

[JohnSJ]

106. I think you are well aware of the reason. Just as an example, after Oct 7, there was sparce condemnation of what Hamas

did here, but the rationalization justifying it was disgraceful and more than obvious, and when some Democratic politicians went OUT of there way NOT to condemn what Hamas did in the immediate aftermath October 7, the defenders of those politicans by some here spoke volumes.

Just examine the threads here throughout the years, the anti-Israeli bias demonstrated, regardless of who was at fault, has always gravitated against Israel.

If Israel is attacked, it is always Israel's fault, and I would speculate it involves more than just an anti-Israeli sentiment.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

117. Great post.

[surfered]

17. It is a reason there will never be peace. Violence begets violence and revenge seems to be a basic human instinct.

[quakerboy]

18. real talk: no one.

Barring some kind of drastic change of situation in israel itself, It's not stopping untill theres noone left to kill. A vote for Trump was a vote to allow nettenyahu to do literally whatever he wants in gaza. The only reason there may be Palestinians alive in Gaza 6 months from now is that it may still be politically useful to bibi to have active war.

[2naSalit]

24. K&R

[Clouds Passing]

25. The bib got dump elected.

[sarisataka]

35. Others want credit as well

Link to tweet

[maxsolomon]

28. Hamas is going to stop "Bibi and the Complicit West" by returning the hostages.

There was a meeting in Egypt last week with a ceasefire supposedly in the offing. Nothing came of it, again.

Not clear what they're waiting for at this point. Maybe they no longer have the organizational capacity to agree to a ceasefire.

Or Netanyahu's waiting until 1/20 so MFer can take the credit.

[MuchBetterThanThis]

29. I gave up on Israel when Bibi

Came to power beforehand.
There’s no way there can be peace anywhere when you have narcissistic, power hungry, $$$- loving people in charge.
Human rights don’t matter. And I hate to say it but that goes for our “beloved” United States too for supporting such barbarism for far too long.
It’s embarrassing

[enid602]

39. Aid

I gave up on Israel in November when the Jewish members of the Knesset all voted to keep UNRWA from returning to Gaza. No aid. We can’t keep blaming this shit on BiBi.

[Richard D]

31. The hostages have been in the terror tunnels for well over a year.

We think that there are a hundred left living, but Hamas will not say.

They are:

- Being subjected to sexual assault
-have burns inflicted upon them by hot metal objects
-Are forced to watch graphic footage of the Oct. 7 massacre perpetrated by Hamas
-their hair is pulled out.
-They are left tied and bound for many hours or even days
-they are forced to watch fellow hostages die
-they are not allowed to see their families
-they have surgeries and medical procedures performed without painkillers or anesthesia
-women are used as sexual slaves.

But apparently, to many here, this does not matter.

Not to mention that tens of thousands of rockets have been shot into Israel from Gaza.
Not to mention that given the slightest chance, they would do more Oct 7 massacres.
Not to mention that they have refused all hostage release proposals
Not to mention that this war has the lowest civilian-to-military kill rate of any urban war ever.
Not to mention that virtually all "news" out of Gaza is manipulated, and much is fabricated.
Not to mention that the population of Gaza continues to increase - Jews are just bad at genocide.
Not to mention that if you are siding with Hamas, you are siding with Iran.
Not to mention that al Jazzerra is a propaganda arm of Iran and lies like crazy.
Not to mention that despite your hatred of Netanyahu and Israelis, the war would end very soon after the hostages are released.
Not to mention that many 13-year-olds and up are Hamas soldiers.
Not to mention that if a Gazan kills a Jew, they are paid for doing so.
Not to mention that if a Hamas terrorist is killed, the family will get plenty of money from Hamas. Maybe more than the Hamas person could make.
Not to mention that if "genocide" was Israel's goal, there would have been zero residents of Gaza left alive by November 2023

And yes, it is tragic that some innocents are killed and maimed. It's never a good idea to start a war.

But yeah, globalize the intifada and kill all Jews. You know, Christians are next on their list.

Who can stop Netanyahu? Maybe, but doubtfully Iran. Seems like a lot of people are on their side.

[Avalon Sparks]

45. Someone give Israel their own planet, in another galaxy please

Don't talk to me about October 7. Don't talk to me about hostages. I don't care. I haven't cared for months. Many, many times more Gazans are dying and suffering than the number of Israelis who died and are suffering. That means the death and suffering of Palestinians is much more urgent and matters much more than the death and suffering of Israelis. The only way to disagree with this is to believe Israeli lives are worth much, much more than Palestinian lives.

[NickB79]

46. If you can't care about the hostages Hamas took, you can't care about the civilians killed in the war either

Anything else is pure hypocrisy. Innocent lives are innocent lives.

I'm sure the hostages in the tunnels still alive, and their families, also feel a serious sense of urgency after a year of being held by a terrorist group though.

[Richard D]

47. You're right . . .

. . . Proportionality is important. A careful tally should have been made of all Hamas killed on October 7, and Israel should have stopped when exactly that number of Gazans had lost their lives. The tally should also have included rapes, dismemberment, beheadings, torture, nails being driven into the genitals of Israeli women, babies burned in ovens in front of their parents, fetuses ripped out of their mother's womb, kidnappings, burning in cars, RPG's in rooms full of civilians begging for their lives, etc., and in the spirit of proportionality, all of those should have been done to Gazans. It's only fair, after all, isn't it?

The comment you made, really, is based on the utterly ridiculous and downright stupid idea being promulgated to that useful idiot's lap-up like starving dogs that Israel is doing what it is doing for revenge.

Revenge has nothing to do with it. They need to make `100% certain that Gaza, er, Hamas, can never again have the chance to repeat Oct 7. So yeah, it sucks. Badly. But the terror tunnels need to be destroyed, weapons have to be destroyed, and Hamas has to be destroyed. Sadly, innocents die in urban warfare. But all of them are dying because of and with the direct force of Hamas.

I could go on, but any further comments I make might get me evicted from DU, which I don't want. But again, despicable.

[Avalon Sparks]

89. Oh I know revenge has nothing to do with it.

It’s 100% Land Grab by genocide.


“””rapes, dismemberment, beheadings, torture, nails being driven into the genitals of Israeli women, babies burned in ovens in front of their parents, fetuses ripped out of their mother's womb, kidnappings, burning in cars, RPG's in rooms full of civilians begging for their lives, etc.””””

Just atrocity propaganda Hasbara BS.

There is absolutely no evidence any of those things happened. NO EVIDENCE!

Exactly 1 Israel baby was killed on 10/7.

[Beastly Boy]

105. This word salad is as meaningless as it is familiar.

Pure BS out of Iran's shadier troll farm corners.

Not even Al Jazeera would touch this crap with a ten foot pole.

[AloeVera]

127. It infuriates me.

The atrocity propaganda STILL being repeated. Sick war porn.

And you know what? Even IF every single false atrocity propaganda were 100% true, it STILL would not justify the malicious cruelty and barbarism inflicted on Palestinians.

I don't know what infuriates me more, the willful repetition of disproved propaganda to excuse the genocide, or the moral blindness and superiority required to not SEE that nothing justifies the evil of Israel's own actions.
🤮

[AloeVera]

59. You hit the nail on the head.

And as you likely know, that is the whole problem. It's been made VERY clear that one Palestinian is worth a tiny fraction of one Israeli. In fact, to prevent any FUTURE risk to an Israeli it is reasonable to kill any number of Palestinians TODAY - that's the argument I've seen, boiled down to its ugly essence.

To add insult to injury, just raising a MORAL objection to such a worldview will bring down the wrath of the anti-semite hunters who see no moral issue at all. Except with those raising the objections.

It's crazy-making.

[Avalon Sparks]

90. Excellent points AloeVera

And it’s so very crazy making!

[Beastly Boy]

108. That's a gross overestimation.

As several Hamas leaders repeated their position on record, a Gazan life is only worth to them inasmuch as the capacity of a Gazan to be "martyred" for their murderous cause.

It's about time for someone who professes high regard for morality to bring it up. Would you do the honor, or should I stop holding my breath?

[malaise]

100. The sad and harsh truth

Rec

[Beastly Boy]

101. That's the problem. You don't care enough to ask yourself what the reason for such discrepancy is.

Why do you suppose tens of thousands of Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi and Iranian missiles fired directly and indiscriminately into Israel's population centers yielded so comparatively few casualties?

Hint: compare the effort that Israel puts into protecting their civilians to that of the Hamas government in Gaza deliberately exposing theirs to enemy fire.

Unless one keeps their blinders on, this doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out.

[akbacchus_BC]

112. Bingo. Cruelty is what netenyahu has unleashed on the Palestinians. That was his goal all along and

the US aided and supported him in building settlements in Gaza. Just the other day, he said Israel will continue to build settlements in Gaza. What Hamas did on October 7 was wrong, but it gave Israel an excuse to execute Palestinians. A Minister in the Israeli government referred to Palestinians as dogs, does that mean that humans should be murdered? The atrocities going on in Syria, Ukraine, Haiti, Sudan makes me wonder what is the purpose of NATO and the UN is all about.

[Beastly Boy]

126. If cruelty was his goal all along,

why did he have to invade Gaza now? Why not 15 years ago?

He has two million of his own Palestinians to be cruel to.

[womanofthehills]

55. Everything you say is what Israel is doing to their prisoners

We even have video of Israel soldiers raping prisoners.

Many hostages who were released by Hamas said they were not abused.

Projection!!!

[Beastly Boy]

109. Who has the video? How many hostages are "many"?

Who screams "Projection!!!" the loudest?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

118. And guess what?

Last edited Fri Dec 27, 2024, 12:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Those soldiers are being tried for sexual assault.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/09/world/video/israel-sde-teiman-alleged-prisoner-abuse-footage-diamond-tsr-digvid

Now, will HAMAs investigate and hold accountable those responsible for the rape, torture, murder, kidnapping of Israeli and foreign citizens on 10/7?

How come you don't ask that question?

[J_William_Ryan]

33. "Who is going to stop Bibi and the complicit West?"

No one.

Certainly not Trump.

[calguy]

34. This is, unfortunately, the way it is

We lost the election. We have no control over anything for at least the next two years. It's trump's show now, and we can only grimace from the sidelines.

[The Bopper]

38. This kind

Of gaslighting is why we lost the election. I think Bebe should be held responsible BUT…BUT pretending support for Isreal is the same as assisting Bebe. 90% of Americans are sure Hamas attack is responsible for what’s going on now AND BY THE WAY what Hamas wanted to try and stir up hatred for Isreal. The sooner Hamas is dead the better for Palestinians.

[tritsofme]

44. So am I. It's far past time for Hamas to surrender.

[Jit423]

50. You, my friend, are not the only one sick of the IDF shit! Genocide, plainly.

The hostages haven't been even a second thought to Bibi for months. It is now a land grab and killing as many Palestinians and other non-Jewish people in the area...including killing Christians.

[malaise]

58. THIS

Rec

[mr715]

51. Answer:

Israeli people.

[AloeVera]

57. What's the likelihood of that?

You are right of course.

[mr715]

68. As likely as democracy to win at home

So... well... I guess 50/50 if we pretend there is a long game?



MR

[edhopper]

60. Not to defend how out of proportion

The Israeli response has been.
But what did Hamas hope to achieve with their horrific attack on Oct. 7th.

[Beastly Boy]

61. Feeling pretty healthy about the far worse slaughter everywhere else?

No mention of any of it... ever.

[Groundhawg]

86. Bibi isn't at blame. He is responding to the threat to his people.

[Dave Bowman]

88. I watched a great documentary the other evening. It's called "The Bibi Files".

It was very informative. That maniac and his wife are corrupted to the core. And of course all these civilians are being massacred so he can stay in power and avoid prison. Just like trump.

[C0RI0LANUS]

91. Why the 7 Oct 2023 Attack in Southern Israel?

Look at the expressions of the IDF soldiers as they abuse this bare-footed Palestinian man. (Photo: Reuters)

On 2 Jul 2023, the Times of Israel reported that over 1,100 Palestinians were held by Israel incommunicado without trial or hearing, the highest figure since 2003. This was months before 7 Oct 2023. See Times of Israel and Amnesty Int’l reports below. With no way to release their brothers, fathers, sons, nephews, and cousins, the muqawama conducted the 7 Oct 2023 raid which killed 1,200 Israelis and resulted in 250 captives.

Simply put, the sneak attack was to seize Israeli hostages for a prisoner swap.

And several exchanges did take place in Nov 2023, thanks to D/Mossad David Barnea who pushed a reluctant Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu.


D/Mossad David Barnea speaks in the central coastal Israeli city of Herzliya on 10 Sep 2023. (Photo: Gil Cohen-Magen / AFP / Getty Images / File)

But keeping the Gaza conflict going was to Netanyahu’s benefit because this kept delaying his corruption trial, so he stopped trying to free the hostages. Nevertheless the Biden Administration, during the 2024 campaign year, kept trying to achieve a diplomatic victory with a ceasefire and hostage release. Ultimately, USSECSTATE Antony Blinken made a dozen trips to the Middle East in vain as the Democrats lost the White House.

During the Nakba, the International Criminal Court (ICC) at the Hague indicted Benjamin Netanyahu for war crimes and on 21 Nov 2024 his arrest warrant was issued. See link below.

Sources:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-1100-palestinians-said-held-by-israel-without-trial-highest-figure-since-2003/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/22/israel-hamas-deal-which-captives-palestinian-prisoners-could-be-freed

https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu

[Beastly Boy]

110. Are we justifyig hostage taking now?

Last edited Fri Dec 27, 2024, 10:02 AM - Edit history (1)

not that I am surprised. Just disgusted.

[Blue_Tires]

98. Ask Donnie

He said he could straighten everything out in the Middle East with just a phone call or whatever... That's why the Arab-Americans voted for him, right?

[marble falls]

103. Beyond sick.

[Kid Berwyn]

107. Netanyahu is setting up World War.

In wiping out the people of Palestine, he is creating new enemies who will seek the destruction of Israel.

[Ping Tung]

121. Those that murder civilians are never the "Good Guys".

No matter what they use as an excuse.

[Beastly Boy]

128. What is your opinion about killing illegal combatants who commit a war crime of perfidy?

Because that's who we are talking about here

[Ping Tung]

129. The same as my opinions about "legal" combatants who kill, starve, torture civilians.

What if they gave a war and nobody came? Carl Sandburg

[Beastly Boy]

130. Which is... what, exactly?

[Ping Tung]

132. That they're war criminals.

Not to mention the criminals who send them and order them to commit war crimes.

[Beastly Boy]

135. Ok, I must have misunderstood the purpose of your post.

You responded to the OP with a general statement which may apply to a multitude of events all over the world, not necessarily today, and not necessarily in Gaza, and not necessarily in any specific context. Not necessarily as a response to the OP, which speaks of today and Gaza as time and place, but to use it as an opportunity to express your views.

I am still unclear about the particulars of your choice of venue, but that's cool. It's your opinion.

[ThePartyThatListens]

133. The only thing that works in stopping a bully OP is

Doing the same thing to them.

Unfortunately.

[amuse bouche]

136. How about the Arab countries, get off their asses, and make some demands of Bibi, and rescue fellow Arabs?

There sure are a lot of excuses as to why they have mostly provided lip service.