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Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)Cursive is an arcane skill. It is nearly useless. It is in buggy whip territory.
mahatmakanejeeves
(68,206 posts)Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(68,206 posts)And good afternoon.
multigraincracker
(36,943 posts)Dysgraphia Spectrum.
FSogol
(47,526 posts)
Rebl2
(17,398 posts)to be that way, but I can still do so when need be and can read cursive it as well.
Conjuay
(2,893 posts)Yours
indigovalley
(278 posts)Teacher here...Written materials encountered in daily life (bills, signs, directions, websites, texts, labels, newspapers, flyers, manuals, books) are not in cursive writing. If you can read those materials then in my professional opinion you are not illiterate. Not being able to read cursive just means you can't read cursive which is a specialized type of hand writing. If companies are frustrated by workers not being able to read cursive there is a simple work around-have materials, instructions or whatever printed in text instead.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)The only good, or rather interesting argument I've read for learning cursive is 'hand eye motor coordination training'. But even that is simply a side effect, not the intention or historical purpose of cursive. There are likely more useful ways to get the same training, like for example drawing arts, which also continue to have practical value.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)The brain connection is invaluable & sometimes cursive is necessary.
JCMach1
(29,082 posts)How many of your read 19th century manuscripts? Now try 18th,.17th?
Language and literacy has always been in flux.
If you have done textual scholarship, or taken Middle, or Old English you know.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)Jmo.
JCMach1
(29,082 posts)What about an abacus?
It's called obsolescence.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)Therein lies the difference.
JCMach1
(29,082 posts)All forms of communication in our language we no longer use.
People need to understand a linguistic understanding of language and communication in that it constantly changes and involves.
Sorry, ignore reality if you like. Cursive isn't coming back.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)Language evolves, certainly. However, I have no desire to print instructions for some task needing attention because the worker is functionally illiterate.
Good night.
Response to SheltieLover (Reply #87)
Name removed Message auto-removed
JCMach1
(29,082 posts)It's also your job to evolve.
NickB79
(20,241 posts)At one point, Latin was the common form of communication as well. Any decent education would teach it. Today, virtually unused outside of a few specialized fields.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)
Betty Boom
(368 posts)For these particular jobs, it’s a job requirement. I don’t understand these people who are arguing so vehemently. Do they think they can just go to their boss and say stop writing notes in cursive? The arrogance just is staggering
Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)Should a person be required to be able to drive a manual transmission car in order to be licensed to drive?
This is coming from someone whose 34 year old daughter refuses to drive anything BUT manual transmission. I prefer manual transmission (although my left foot doesn't). But that skill falls into about the same category of knowledge as reading/writing cursive. Essential if your job requires driving manual transmission (such as being a valet for whatever car is dropped off), but not generally essential in this era - even if your job requires driving a company vehicle.
If the job requires reading hand-written notes, it should be part of the application process. Our law firm didn't require reading handwritten notes - but it did require that the administrative staff be able to transcribe dictated long dictated content because two partners "write" all of their content by dictating it. We included a test of essential skills as part of the application process (including transcribing handwritten notes and word-processing skills).
If it wasn't part of the application process (including the advertisement for the job, assertions on the application that the applicant can read/write cursive, and the interview process) then it is the obligation of the company to accommodate the employee. (That could be by teaching the employee to read/write cursive as part of the on-the-job training, or requiring the partners to communicate in a manner other than cursive notes. Most people can read hand printed notes - so even requiring the partners to print the instructions would likely suffice.)
raccoon
(32,208 posts)Conjuay
(2,893 posts)
Celerity
(53,658 posts)on you card.
Same for Sweden and many other nations.
DeepWinter
(931 posts)She and none of her classmates have ever been taught cursive in public school.
I have her with a private tutor leaarning college level math/science and classic literature because her school is lacking in advaced classes for kids ahead of the curve. She learned cursive there more as a novelty skill, like callegraphy. (Which she has dabbled into as well, lol.)
The classic liberal education of the pre-1990s we learned is for the most part gone.
TexasBushwhacker
(21,093 posts)Once you have the basics, you can put your own spin on it as a form of self expression. I've always wished I took the time to create my own, distinctive autograph, but at 68 it seems pretty pointless. However, as someone who taught teenagers in the 80s, legibility was a big problem for many kids. I can see why they dropped it, but it's a shame if someone can't read it.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)You formed the letters exactly the way they were in the book, right down to the degree of slant, or you got red marks all over your papers.
I have a bunch of letters and such written by my grandparents and aunts and uncles, who all went to the same schools between about 1915 and 1935. Their handwriting is identical. No creativity allowed there. My mother told me how the students who transferred to her public school from the parochial school, where they learned to form the letters a bit differently, were forced to change their handwriting to conform to that which was taught at the public school.
Torchlight
(6,307 posts)
William769
(59,147 posts)
FakeNoose
(40,147 posts)Why didn't the parents put more effort and interest into their kids' education?
By the time these kids get to college, it's way too late for remedial work.
DenaliDemocrat
(1,721 posts)Wrestling and volleyball camps/leagues.
The parents fucked these kids up. 14 year olds getting Tommy-John surgery because they NEVER switch sports and repetitive motion injuries occur. It’s insane.
Captain Stern
(2,249 posts)Your response was far more eloquent than what my reply was going to be.
I was just going to say "No. Cursive sucks"
ThreeNoSeep
(272 posts)As a math person, I dealt with this silliness when I stopped teaching kids how to use a slide rule. I had no trouble getting over it.
This "debate" seems to revolve more around disillusionment because of obsolescence rather than any actual need for cursive.
Betty Boom
(368 posts)And the story is an example of the fact that it’s clearly not. For this particular job, the employer needs someone who can read cursive. They don’t meet the job requirements.
DenaliDemocrat
(1,721 posts)In addition, the lack of fundamental grammar and punctuation skills in the new generation is staggering. Many struggle to write a cogent sentence. When writing highly technical documents where clarity is essential, knowing proper grammar and punctuation to avoid confusion is tantamount.
Joinfortmill
(20,037 posts)The NIH on cursive.
If your interested in a scientific perspective, this article in the National Institute of Health may be helpful.
'In summary, when preliterate children perceive letters, only free-form printing experience results in the recruitment of the visual areas used in letter-processing, and the motor regions seen in letter production. This finding adds to previous research showing that letter perception is facilitated by handwriting experience, and it further suggests that handwriting experience is important for letter processing in the brain.'
Update: For those interested and in response to the comment regarding the NIH, here is the original article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211949312000038?via%3Dihub
'The effects of handwriting experience on functional brain development in pre-literate children' Psychological and Brain Sciences, Indiana University..., United States, Columbia University, United States
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)Joinfortmill
(20,037 posts)Conjuay
(2,893 posts)I always thought hand WRITING is faster and more efficient. Printing requires lifting off the paper e v e r y s I n g l e l e t t e r.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)I letter faster than I write in cursive.
raging moderate
(4,603 posts)I never heard the word "cursive" until I went to Southern Illinois University. While growing up, my school system taught us printing and then handwriting. Incidentally, my terrible coordination problems made it almost impossible for me to learn how to write legibly. The school system did not have the wonderful special education services of today, but it did have a whole hour for the lunch period. My wonderful teachers used that time to give special education services to those of us who needed it. One morning, my home room teacher called me to her desk and told me, "Mr. Simon went to a workshop over the weekend and learned a new technique for teaching legible handwriting skills. When the lunch bell rings, go directly to his room." That day, I learned how to do legible handwriting! Mr. Simon showed me how to practice handwriting on graph paper, using the tiny square lines for guidance! It worked like a charm! I will never forget the THRILL of seeing legible letters come out of a pencil held by MY hand! And yes, it also became easier to understand what other people had written. If you need to learn or teach how to do this, I highly recommend GRAPH PAPER!
Betty Boom
(368 posts)It’s not technically correct to say that this is the NIH speaking on this. The NIH maintains PubMed, which is a repository of journal articles in biomedicine. So the people who wrote this article are the ones who are speaking, and they are not affiliated with the NIH. Think of it this way. It’s like the NIH maintains the library and this is a book in the library. 😊
JHB
(37,947 posts)NLM being the U.S. National Library of Medicine.
padfun
(1,887 posts)I can't read most people's cursive writing. It's that they are just lousy writers when it comes to cursive.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Unfortunately, the 90 days to a year probation period allows a company to fire for practically any reason.
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)If you are an employee at will, meaning you and the company havent entered into a formal employment contract, you can be fired at any time for almost any reason.
The exceptions are where federal or state law grants specific rights to specific claases of people.
Companies can use any reason; insubordination, not getting along with co-workers, or violating company dress codes.
As long as it isnt discrimonatory, buh bye.
And believe me, if a client says to get rid of someone, they wont see them again.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Orrex
(66,671 posts)Blues Heron
(8,344 posts)
krawhitham
(5,055 posts)Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)I can read and write cursive. But unless I am very careful and slow, my handwriting is almost indecipherable - even to me - if I don't have independent memory about the subject of the writing.
When I was working as a journalist for local political meetings, I had to write the article immediately after arriving home - since I couldn't read a fair amount of what I wrote because I was writing as quickly as I could in order to capture comments which were close enough to be used as a quotation. If I waited until the next day, somewhere between a third and a half of what I wrote was indecipherable.
And - I don't use the same chicken scratch all the time. I am still using my signature from 1989 for voting because I can't reliably replicate my current signature. Every once in a while they will suggest I just fill out a new signature care (when I forget and use my current signature). I always decline because I would be challenged every time I vote.
claudette
(5,455 posts)Yes. Maybe someone could invent a typewriter or create a computer font that prints in cursive. Calligraphy font isn’t quite the same.
The Madcap
(1,747 posts)But even I can't read the formal cursive of the 1800's and early 1900's. That writing style is a work of art, but it would be nearly useless in the 21st century. Times change. We have to be flexible enough to survive the changes.
LogDog75
(1,100 posts)It's a skill set that can be taught in a short time. I grew up learning to write in cursive instead of printing. The problem with cursive writing is that most people, including myself, suck at cursive writing. I've literally taken notes in cursive writing and an hour later I couldn't figure out what I had written.
As for firing the Gen Z, that's poor leadership on the partner's part. Obviously, the new employee had the skills the company wanted so instead of having to go through the process and costs of finding a replacement it would have been easier to show him how to read cursive. Really, reading cursive isn't rocket science or like trying to read Egyptian hieroglyphics.
Haggard Celine
(17,678 posts)I also think that the obvious solution was teaching cursive to the guy. How long before he could understand, 2 or 3 afternoons? Too many people want to do whatever is the most extreme or dramatic action. Teach the guy cursive and move along.
RockRaven
(18,688 posts)Cursive is no longer a universal method of written communication or record keeping. It is a niche and (approaching) obsolete one. And that isn't a judgement as to its value, just its usage rate.
Once upon a time, knowing shorthand was an essential reading/writing skill in many office environments. But it is no longer so, and nobody in those same offices today would call one functionally illiterate for not knowing it. Cursive is on that trajectory.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)It was a niche of workers in the pink ghetto who knew & used it.
Iggo
(49,649 posts) 
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)I have commented on why my and other hospitals are now requiring candidates/employees (from janitors to specialist physicians) to show that they can read/legibly write and comprehend cursive writing and a threatened EEOC lawsuit was summarily dismissed by those misguided and willfully ignorant potential employees.
Why? Well among several documented life-and-death instances was an emergency resuscitation code where a nurse student intern who could not read cursive ignored a handwritten sign on an oxygen tank that clearly indicated "DO NOT USE! Malfunctioning" and was thus positioned away from others. So, the patient was receiving no supplemental oxygen throughout the effort because this employee could not read the sign and hooked it up without even inquiring what the sign said.
While one might have understanding and compassion for a student or point fingers at those supposedly supervising her, it was the attitude of this and other non-cursive-competent employees that enraged nearly all from the trained healthcare workers in the ER to the HR managers to the corporate drones. Because she decided to defiantly sue the HOSPITAL for "failing to educate her" in this reading/writing requirement she had missed from K-12 and then college-- and then for their subsequent policy to screen, not hire, and to fire those who did not meet that requirement. And that was only ONE such incident (I have heard of others at other hospitals, clinics, HCW training programs, and pharmacies), all of which yes rely heavily on computers, but real life requires the ability to read physician notes scanned in computerized records, pharmacy notes, and yes the handwritten notes of family members about a patient unable to speak for themselves. Veterinarian friends of mine--especially veterinary emergency clinic staff have had similar problems.
Yes, it is functional illiteracy. And a form that can have significant impacts. To all those who don't care about the ability to read historical documents or the letters of their parents and grandparents, fine, but you are going to face some challenges beyond that. And not all employers are willing or even ABLE to allow you to "skate" because someone decided that was not important because 140-misspelled character typed texts were somehow deemed the equivalent of literacy in this age. IT DAMNED WELL IS IMPORTANT. And shame on those educational officials and others who decided it was not. That lack of understanding and forethought is leaving many to flounder.
In answer to the OP's question, YES, I think it is undeniably FUNCTIONAL ILLITERACY.
Sympthsical
(10,847 posts)You mention pharmacy, which is a big one my partner deals with. Medical charts are another one. Right now, a lot of places have tablet-like devices posted around that does a lot of the charting automatically (i.e. it's a series of prompts you more or less just click through and input values). But doctors and nurses keep notes. I have a little leather booklet I used through clinicals to take all kinds of patient notes. Vitals, medications, schedules, etc. And sometimes I had to read others' notes or hand-written charts, some of which are in cursive. And man, when you get into medical shorthand written in cursive, it's a wild time.
The ability or inability to read or write cursive isn't a moral judgement - in fact, I blame the adults in charge of education for failing to prepare students who are going to encounter it in their lives. It's about being able to do one's job well, particularly where safety concerns are at issue.
Not understanding cursive can literally get someone killed in the medical profession.
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)the impacts could be--even if cursive reading and writing are not a critical necessity in THEIR field or daily life, astounds me. That failure to understand, to imagine the comprehensive scope of the issue, underscores why this country is moving toward a total disregard for learning, education, science, medicine, and democracy IMHO. We don't believe it necessary to learn from the past--whether it be the ability to read our founding documents or to even understand its constructs. Many arrogantly demand that others "shut up" about that which they have no understanding, but only ignorance. I see this on this thread.
I cannot be positive for our future, though I still fight. sigh...
EdmondDantes_
(1,349 posts)I work in a field adjacent to the medical field and given how bad many people's hand writing is and how important it is to get things correct, why not use a more easily legible format? Just because something has always been done in one way doesn't mean it has to be. Might even be perceived as a failure of imagine to not change with the time. Medical offices still insisting on using faxes.
There's nothing special about reading the Declaration of Independence in cursive as opposed to reading it via Times New Roman text. You might find it prettier, but that's a personal aesthetic value not something inherent. I find physical books better, some people find e-books better, some find audio books better. To paraphrase Proust is Proust even in English.
If you want to talk about learning from the past, the only constant thing in all of history, is change. Those same founding fathers who wrote those documents you venerate were considered uneducated heathens by British aristocracy and many of them owned slaves a practice that is considered barbaric today.
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)or even TRY to understand, I will waste no more time. But, one day you may find a situation among those I and others have described where this will impact you or someone you love intensely.
It was a mistake to remove cursive from our Federal standards in 2010--a mistake that educators in nearly 24 states have now recognized and corrected or are introducing legislation to do so. Do some reading.
Emrys
(8,927 posts)In a safety-critical environment, why on earth are you placing reliance on scribbled notes in this day and age? If people's health and lives are at risk, what sort of setup relies on such a predictable point of failure?
Communication has at least two parties: the sender and the receiver(s). If communication is indecipherable, it's not good enough to be arguing the toss afterwards - even as far as in law courts - about who's in the wrong. Respond to errors and change ways of working accordingly.
And having witnessed much medical handwriting - often a mystery even to very seasoned pharmacists who have to raise queries - the mind boggles at professional complacency about this issue.
MichMan
(16,624 posts)Emrys
(8,927 posts)That's aside from the wisdom of not removing a faulty life-critical piece of equipment from a ward where a scrawled note attached could easily become detached.
And I seriously doubt that problems reading medical handwriting would be restricted to a new employee.
At the very least, if it's an essential message, WRITE IT IN ALL CAPS. Maybe also underline it and add a few exclamation marks.
Or have the damn defective equipment moved out of harm's way.
Karma13612
(4,919 posts)At your local hospital or clinic is attacked by ransomware (it happens, for fear of public panic it’s just not publicized, trust me), and they take it offline, medical care does not stop.
Protocols are in place and they involve WRITING things down. Filling out forms, taking notes, writing orders. Not sure about others, but I can write faster in longhand cursive than I can print.
And that’s just one industry that relies on computers but can’t just suspend their operations if the ‘system is down’, I’m sure there are others.
Emrys
(8,927 posts)have specified that responders write in BLOCK CAPITALS for as long as I can recall.
I still find it hard to believe that jotting a handwritten cursive note and attaching it to vital equipment that's known to be faulty complies with any health and safety protocols for such an occurrence a hospital would have in place - or an insurer would find acceptable if it came to being sued.
If the story recounted is true, I suspect the call for the sacking of the employee who couldn't read cursive was ass-covering by the more senior member of staff who should have taken more care and was arguably guilty of negligence. I expect if a case did come to court or tribunal, he and the hospital and its insurers would be on tricky ground, and likely settle.
Karma13612
(4,919 posts)
hunter
(40,367 posts)... was an adequate response to this dangerous situation.
If I left a 480 volt terminal exposed and unattended out where anyone could touch it, writing a note on it that said "Do not touch!" (especially a note in cursive...) doesn't absolve me from any responsibility for whatever happens next.
A malfunctioning oxygen setup isn't something anyone should walk away from. Simply writing a note on it isn't enough.
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)I get that you have zero clue as to what happens in hospital ERs and similar emergent settings, but Good Gawd. 
There is a reason that after the Federal standards omitted cursive as part of the national curriculum in 2010 that 24 states thus far have reinstated it as state requirements including 14 which have passed or have legislation pending. Maybe you need to do some reading and understand all the myriad reasons this is a needed requirement. I don't care if all you do is computers. That doesn't obviate the need for written communication and reading ability in an emergency--for all the many reasons I have outlined and MORE.
Betty Boom
(368 posts)There is a pride in ignorance here that I just don’t get.
“Well, I don’t need it for MY job, so it sucks.”
hunter
(40,367 posts)... who was entering all my information on an electronic tablet.
When I worked in a blood bank we were simply not allowed to use handwritten notes for anything critical. Everything had to go through the computers. There was a backup plan in case a nuclear attack or other catastrophe took out all the computers and everyone was supposedly trained for that, but honestly, running everything manually using procedures and paperwork developed during the Korean War would have been mayhem. Patients would have died.
I still struggle to read and write cursive. Grades five through seven were a misery for me until I learned to type. It was a significant learning disability that made me hate school.
Things change. We'll probably never return to the days when every "well educated" person had beautiful cursive handwriting, read and wrote Classical Latin, and knew their way around the Bible.
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)most certainly does not obviate the need to be able to read something that is in handwritten form. I know you have more ability to imagine those situations (as I have outlined throughout this thread) so I can only assume you just want to argue. A simple one from YOUR example would be to imagine what that doctor and scribe would have done if someone had handed them an urgent hand-written note about the patient from a non-present family member in the instance that the patient did not speak English. There are countless myriads of instances like that on a momentary basis in a busy ER.
On this, you are so damned wrong. There are countless reasons why cursive writing is needed now and in the future and I haven't even started to load you down with all the neurological research on hand-eye-brain coordination and "neurological wiring" impacts that learning cursive early in life reinforces (and no, game controllers do not substitute).
So, Hunter. Those who do not know how to read/write in cursive are not illiterate, but they are functionally illiterate (and for those on this thread who do know the difference, look it up!) But a hint. We all have elements of ffunctional illiteracy in our lives. Few here have the skills to direct one of Elon's rockets. That is not a necessary skill for the work that most of us do. But for those who are trying to fly/direct/program/monitor one of his rocket's flights, it involves skills that are mandatory. To lack them makes one FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE in that context. One can gripe and cry and claim that is unfair and have a very immature temper tantrum and blame everyone around you--rather than work to acquire those skills but it isn't going to get you anywhere. So too those jobs where a very simple skill--cursive writing-- is required for practical reasons. Just as a Federal judge decided as well in the case of the negligent, functionally illiterate young woman who sought to blame the hospital for her own failures and lack of a basic educational component, rather than to seek to remedy that consequential deficit and imposed requirement for working in the medical field. Concluding similarly, the 24 states to date who realized this to be a necessary educational component--all of which have or are in the process of returning cursive writing to their curricula.
hunter
(40,367 posts)And I know as much Latin as anyone who majored in Biology and minored in English will soak up by osmosis. I also know my way around the Bible.
You may question my language skills. An exasperated English professor once told me I write like someone with a head injury who learned English as a second language. That's not too far off the mark. I don't remember *not* being able to read but I do remember all the hours I spent with speech therapists, first through third grade, while the rest of my classmates were reading about Dick and Jane.
One of my kids is left handed and struggled with cursive but my wife and I didn't let them skip past it. We didn't torture them about it either.
Nevertheless I don't consider someone who has trouble reading cursive "functionally illiterate." If a job requires someone to read their employer's archaic form of handwriting then that's just part of the job, same as another job might require fluency in a second language. My wife is a front line health care professional and what fluency she has in Spanish has probably put her ahead of people who only speak English, especially in our community where 40% of the population doesn't speak English at home.
Here in the twenty first century I think the benefits of cursive writing are overstated. That's our basic disagreement. I am much more concerned about the functional innumeracy of the U.S.A. population. It goes well beyond the inability to count back change.
Computers are having an even bigger impact on writing in China where predictive keyboard and screen input methods are becoming increasingly sophisticated and possibly influencing the way people think, let alone the damage they are doing to traditional pen and paper handwriting skills.
It's easy to imagine a dystopia where computers can take some incredibly malformed germ of an idea muttered by an idiot and magnify it into a plausible manifesto.
ThreeNoSeep
(272 posts)That's just bad practice.
Whoever put that "clearly indicated" cursive message on the oxygen tank in your example should receive the reprimand. Seriously.
The number of people who read and write cursive is "well below" the majority of the population. One might as well put warning labels in Latin, or print IRS instructions using Roman Numerals and Old English. It's just silly on its face.
Most of us who can still write in cursive write like an epileptic badger gnawing on a jumbo pencil! As a late Boomer/early Gen X, cursive was certainly a skill that brought other less tangible benefits, as does home economics, Latin, calculations with a slide rule, gardening and any number of things. Those other benefits are not the reason the pro-cursive people are upset. They just feel the modern world dismissed something into which they put effort and which only a few learned well. Older people with legible cursive are just upset because no one values the skill that they spent time to learn. Calling the lack of this skill "functional illiteracy" is just another reason for unhappy older adults to complain about young people.
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)and patients come in all the time with cursive hand-written notes from previous medical treatment/diagnoses or from English-speaking family members speaking for one who is not fluent--or those speaking for non-compos mentis patients. (that means for you that they are not "with it" since like cursive, common medical Latin is undoubtedly not in your "wheelhouse" and is likewise a part of medicine not going away no matter how "outdated" to the lay public... All the more reason you should not be speaking to that which you have zero understanding. Many fields have educational requirements. Why some think they should be exempted from these and whine and moan about it is immaterial. To hire those who cannot fulfill those basic requirements is to put lives at risk and your complaints won't matter. Nor should they.
There is a reason education is necessary to work in the medical and related fields. And that includes basic functional literacy--as 24 states have now come to realize and have either replaced cursive in school curriculums or are in the process of passing legislation to do so. More will follow. I do not make excuses for willful ignorance nor diminish the need for education. Nor should YOU as that is something the RW does-- not those who respect the need for an educated populace to protect our constitution and democracy. The latter likewise means being able to READ those vital original documents--not wait for AI to REINTERPRET them for some authoritarian's very malign objectives.
ThreeNoSeep
(272 posts)There are any number of solutions to handle the situations you mentioned (Optical Character Recognition (OCR), Google Translate, reaching out to a cursive reader on staff, etc.) The occasional need to read cursive certainly does not mean an RN should not have their certification or that a medical technician is functionally illiterate.
By the way, functional illiteracy is a phrase that has specific parameters, and the inability to read/write in an archaic script or spout pedantic Latin words is not one of them, despite your misuse of the term. Knowledge and use of the meanings of words is a better indication of functional literacy.
If you are justified in your contempt for those who do not read nor write cursive then you should try to have the hospital switch all the warning signs to handwritten cursive and Latin. (cough - reductio ad absurdum cough-cough!)
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)and refuse to read what I and others have actually written and tried to explain to you. That you think that optical resolution systems can be used in an emergency in ERs packed to the hilt and should be the real-time solution--rather than hiring competent staff able to read a handwritten note is obscene and shows an absolute lack of imagination for what life and death intervention actually means. So, don't be surprised if no one attempts to further engage with you on this issue. I certainly won't.
Bye now. And when you see a cursive note that says DANGER! or PELIGRO! or GEFAHR! or ... then just sit down, refuse to move, and complain that it wasn't printed from a computer or refuse to ask someone to translate, because, of course, that is your right to demand all accommodate you.
Betty Boom
(368 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 28, 2024, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)
… If I could give you a standing ovation right now, I would? I have had it with willful ignorance, and resistance to practicalities. When they got rid of teaching cursive, it says they imagined that a huge segment of the population that still wrote in cursive would suddenly just go poof.
The world just doesn’t work that way, and the world isn’t here to accommodate willful and whiny ignorance.
appmanga
(1,381 posts)...and while I can agree with you about the need of some workers to have such a skill as reading cursive, the fact is while the charts we once learned from show "standard" cursive, most people have developed a personalized version of writing in that form. My cursive looks nothing like anyone else in my family, and it's the same for them. There have been many times where I've deciphered the cursive of others simply by substituting what makes sense based on the shape of the scratching in front of me.
And, despite your obvious agitation at this, she's has a right to sue and has grounds for what I think is a pretty good case. And the complaint about her not learning something outside the curricula of all her schooling is beyond grumpy; it's weird. Why would someone attach a lot import to something they're not being taught, and doesn't impair their ability to do well at what they are being taught? I don't know if anyone has ever said to a kid cursive is going to be important to their future, and I don't know how we should expect them to conclude that.
And it's not like those who use cursive are compelled to do so, but for some people, that's standing the the world on its head because the old superiors shouldn't have to (yet again) concede another piece of civilization to the inept and ungrateful young.
That takes some hell of an ego, as does calling the inability to correctly interpret any scrawl thrown in front of one's face being "functionally illiterate".
hlthe2b
(112,794 posts)curriculum. In 2010 the Federal educational curriculum guideline removed it as a mandated (or at least recommended) inclusion. Since then states have been returning it to their active curricula since then with 14 mandating and another 10 reintroducing it in some form or passing legislation to mandate it. Other states are expected to follow. It is NOT true it hasn't been taught in 30 years. That is ridiculous, but it was being phased out until states began to realize the implications. Don't believe me. Can you google? Try "The move to return cursive writing education to state educational curricula."
That some want to whine and moan about the need to have a comprehensive and yes, sometimes very specific skills-oriented education to work in many fields that require it is incredibly unrealistic and akin to a childish temper tantrum. But proceed and see where it gets you...
Karma13612
(4,919 posts)Hear that these states are putting cursive back in the curriculum! It was absolutely insane to strip it out in the first place!
Cursive is a basic way to communicate when all else fails! How hard is that to understand!
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)Ty for sharing!
Betty Boom
(368 posts)I worked for the Leadership of a large federal agency. Part of my divisions’ responsibility was to handle major reports and correspondence and records management, which is a major function in the federal government. Over the course of 20 years, I began to notice the inability of young staff to read cursive, and it was a major problem. They couldn’t fulfill their job without extra assistance because they couldn’t read edits and notes that were written in cursive by senior leaders. So guess who had to sit down and read those notes and print them out in block letters on a sticky for them? I considered it a major skill that they were lacking, and time out of my busy day. I nearly laughed out loud at somebody’s comment below that was like, oh just tell management they shouldn’t write in cursive. What kind of fantasy land do these people live in? They all think they are so special that the entire world should make accommodations for their lack of knowledge. If you don’t have the skills for the job, then get a job elsewhere. It’s simple.
Karma13612
(4,919 posts)I was a pharmacist, then later a medical coder.
The field of medicine and pharmacy would be a mess without the ability to read cursive. When a hospital computer system is down for whatever reason (ransomware, a bad update, power failure), you are forced to go manual. If you can’t read handwritten notes whether it’s printing or cursive, you are stuck. And it CAN be life or death.
As an aside, I can write cursive a LOT faster than I can print. And my writing is legible.
The numbskulls who decided to remove cursive from the curriculum should have their teaching or other education degrees stripped away.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)Patients' meds cannot wait for the computer to be functional again!
I also agree about the time factor to print a note vs write it.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)to prevent the accidental use of defective or potentially dangerous equipment. What kind of shitty place still relies on scribbled notes when an error like that can cause someone to die?
canetoad
(20,205 posts)And if the only disqualifier was being unable to read handwritten notes from one of the partners, the consequences were extremely harsh.
How often do you see or need to read cursive in everyday life? Not very often I bet, a bit like medieval english or gothic black letter it's obsolete.
SheltieLover
(76,738 posts)There was a recent post citing a healthcare worker who was unable to read a cursive note left for the worker which allegedly caused harm to the patient.
Why the hell can't people read cursive? I know schools quit teaching it, but is it really that big of a stretch or maladaptive brains? Guessing the latter.
I highly recommend reading "The Aanxious Generation."
LAS14
(15,456 posts)It should take, maybe 3 lessons in elementary school with a refresher day each year thereafter.
Mike Nelson
(10,912 posts)... I think most people who can't read cursive are adversely affected by people who can't write cursive.
ProfessorGAC
(75,839 posts)In my 6 years of substituting, I have regularly used cursive on the whiteboard.
I've never encountered a student, middle or high school, that can't read it.
I've even had kids say "I can't read that." I reply "Sure you can; what does it say?" The number who can actually read it is 100% so far.
It's not in Japanese or Klingon. It's still in English.
In fact, I've seen junior high kids writing in cursive to show off that they know how. Language arts teachers tell me they have 2 to 5 kids in every class that turn in their work in cursive.
I think we are seeing a diminshment in the use of cursive, but it's not really because people can't. It's more a choice to stay with printed text.
consider_this
(2,847 posts)really, I would think only the letters f, r, s and z, and the caps G and Q look enough dissimilar to block letters to be difficult to distinguish. Seems it would be easy and quick to, at minimum, include reading of cursive instruction - for the mere fact that beyond the many areas/vocations where it is still in use - not knowing it places another block in the way of a person being able to understand many bits of recorded historical communication (including maybe old family letters, etc) that would be of interest.
ProfessorGAC
(75,839 posts)Popped into my head as I was reading your post.
Since fine handwriting can be an artform, maybe art teachers could include in their curriculum. Probably has more value than drawing turkeys at Thanksgiving time.
BTW: I don't have students. I'm just there for the day (or two) to take care of a real teacher's students.
With my background, I have more subject matter expertise than middle or high school teacher. But, I'm not a real teacher.
consider_this
(2,847 posts)in place of the 'hand turkeys'! 
Eugene
(66,791 posts)And reply #5 suggest I may have forgotten how to write some of it, like capital S.
Mike 03
(18,690 posts)I don't even like the feeling of writing in cursive. I'm much, much more comfortable with a keyboard, or writing in what we used to call "block print."
Mike 03
(18,690 posts)Did the employee know that his/her notes were communications that had to be understandable to other people?
Maybe the boss should have given the employee an assignment to write a memo of some kind, not specifying how it had to be done, and see what was turned in.
Since high school I have typed 99% of everything I've ever written, and use print with unconnected letters for everything else. If I was given a specific assignment at work, I would never dream of turning in something handwritten anyway.
The bottom line: Can a person effectively communicate ideas and relay facts or other information using the letters of the alphabet?
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)Likely we could have rigged up some optical scanning device and a digitizing process to translate it into standard text.
There are very few real world requirements for cursive skills.
0rganism
(25,470 posts)Otherwise, well, I'm confident said "partner" could be using legible hand-printing.
Cursive writing is highly personalized and non-standard. Expecting an employee to interpret your specific version without making it an issue in the interview/hiring process strikes me as unreasonable.
MichMan
(16,624 posts)That is why nearly every one states "Other duties as assigned"
"I can't believe you are firing me! Show me where in the job requirements where it says that I can't come in drunk, steal office supplies and tell customers to fuck off ?"
0rganism
(25,470 posts)Let's just say I see things differently.
MichMan
(16,624 posts)I mentioned a few, that while absurd, would certainly be grounds for dismissal, even though they were most likely never mentioned in a interview/job description.
It would be practically impossible to describe every possible scenario in a job interview, unless the job was ridiculously simplistic. I personally would not expect a college graduate to have to write in cursive, but they should be able to read it.
Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when George has sex on his desk with the cleaning lady. When he is fired, he says no one told him when he hired in that such things were not allowed.
0rganism
(25,470 posts)I read and write my version of "cursive" well enough, but I can barely read my 91yo mother's handwriting and I've seen doctors' writing on prescription slips that boggled my imagination -- I have no idea how the pharmacists were able to interpret them. One does not simply "read cursive" -- one deciphers it. Cursive propagated as an efficient writing technique for minimizing the lifting of an inkwell-filled pen off the page, and it has as many styles as it has writers. If the partner considered not reading his cursive as a firing offense, to me it would only seem fair to make reading that script a part of the hiring process.
Clearly you have a different take.
Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)A better equivalent is driving manual transmission - a skill that is also disappearing.
Most jobs don't require either skill. Some do - e.g. working as a valet would require employees to be able to drive a manual transmission car. If the job requires either (or using shorthand, a slide rule, etc.) it should be part of the application process.
snot
(11,494 posts)I think it's a shame that it's not taught, since for most people, it's faster than printing by hand, and (1) I also think it's pretty well accepted that most peole learn better by taking notes by hand rather than typing them, and (2) one doesn't always have handy a digital device suitable for transcribing lengthy text info.
Xolodno
(7,313 posts)...and at my age, forgot how to write it. Think I still can read it, but never had to, all my work is numbers first then print. I even used to know Russian cursive, I can tell you that this point, I could probably make out some of the letters, the rest, no so much. Cursive was used as a fast way to write before typewriters and now keyboards.
Times change and we have to change with them. The Russian I know is over a century old (when we got exiled by the Tsar). I worked with people who were from Russia and sometimes I would say something and they looked at me funny. That's when I say "I did it again, didn't I". They would respond and say yes and laugh. To them I was basically speaking the king's English. But hey, I learned the modern version. In about a century the language we use now will be considered old. Just the way it is, we just don't evolve, so does culture, language, customs, etc.
Happy Hoosier
(9,398 posts)
allegorical oracle
(6,168 posts)the answer is thumbprints or facial recognition provided by cell phones. Just ask because there's a whole lotta signing going on post hurricanes Helene and Milton and some areas in Fla. (mostly rural) are still signally handicapped, so notarized signatures are handy.
sakabatou
(45,769 posts)My dad has terrible handwriting, so it's hard to parse his notes.
What's wrong with you ?
bif
(26,666 posts)Block letters? Just doesn't make sense. It's not that frikken hard to learn. It never should have been dropped. I write almost exclusively in cursive.
Emrys
(8,927 posts)this one raises issues about companies' recruitment, interviewing and induction processes, and their own often unspoken internal culture and "we've always done it this way".
In a previous thread a couple of weeks ago, inductees were being blamed for issues that showed up systematic shortcomings in the companies' methods and attitudes to new employees.
I mean, in what sort of company is it acceptable to routinely say things like "We had to let 50% of the new intake go because of ...." before the suspicion arises that the companies are interviewing the wrong people, conducting interviews in non-productive ways, falling short in their induction processes, leading to lost time and money, heartache, frustration and ill feeling all round, and maybe making unrealistic and sometimes unidentified and unspecified demands on recruits?
I edit books for a living. "Cursive" covers a hell of a lot of handwriting styles. I've edited books that had extensive prior annotation in cursive, and one book that was literally a manuscript - all 400 sheets of it written by hand in cursive, which I had to decipher and edit in a way a typist could follow.
One book was a revised edition of a parents' guide to British public schools. Without being familiar with that rarified sector of the elite, we were faced with the problem of whether the scribe's f symbols were in fact p symbols - e.g., was the school called Uffingham or Uppingham? And I was taught cursive with rather extravagant ink pens designed to "improve our handwriting". As most people do, I gradually changed and personalized my own style, often loosely based on the forms I was taught, so there really is no recognized or recognizable standard.
If someone in a firm is routinely producing handwritten material - and you have to ask why they're doing that nowadays when electronic alternatives are readily available - the onus should be on the writer to ensure their handwriting is easy and clear to interpret by others: just as when I used to have to write corrections, changes and instructions for typesetters on hard copy, my publisher employers would not have been happy if I submitted work that was hard to read and decipher. The typesetter wouldn't have been seen as at fault, I would have been. The style I adopted as a result was less than cursive, more like printing, with the letters separated for clarity. I doubt any younger people would have had serious problems reading it.
The Madcap
(1,747 posts)from our "Supreme" Leader. He sets a shining example of how valuable cursive is now. It looks like he's trying to draw his own EKG printout.
Susan Calvin
(2,402 posts)I am glad I was taught cursive, because I can take notes in cursive faster than I can type. I never went so far as to learn shorthand, though.
Rebl2
(17,398 posts)I would fire them, but would give them 60-90 days to learn to read and write cursive. Then fire them if they didn’t accomplish the task. It’s a failure of the K-12 school district they graduated from IMO. Think of all the situations in life that require signatures. Drivers license, opening a bank account, buying a car or house, and much more.
doc03
(38,820 posts)I write checks and address envelopes in cursive, what next is the USPS going to outlaw it because their workers can't read?
What is so difficult teaching a first grader to write? My mother passed away 14 years ago her handwriting was beautiful
up until she passed away at 92. She had to quit school in the 5th grade to do housework for people to help earn a living
for the family back in the great depression yet she could still write and spell better than I ever could. I think if anyone
is functional illiterate it is our educators.
Emrys
(8,927 posts)I used to have to handwrite to professionally acceptable standards all day every day for work. Now I do it so infrequently that on the rare occasions I use it, my handwriting's appalling.
Mossfern
(4,625 posts)and not hand written. I was appalled- so impersonal.
My daughter (now 44) - when she was in 5th grade often had essay assignments. She would write pages upon pages - and then her teacher made the students copy over their essays. Well, my 'sweet' little girl just refused to do it. I got a call from her teacher who was concerned about my daughter's rebellion. I explained that it was a hardship for my kid because her essays were several pages while the rest of the class only wrote one page essays.
She was the first student in her school who was allowed to type her homework. It was about 1990.
While I am a fervent fan of cursive writing, I can certainly see the drawbacks it may present.
If students aren't taught cursive, they should be taught drawing - development of fine motor coordination is essential.
WarGamer
(18,249 posts)I don't like how the education system has gone down the drain.
When I was in High School... I think there were 7 language choices for the Language elective...
Latin, Russian, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Mandarin...
My son had the choice of Spanish or French.
no_hypocrisy
(54,259 posts)I can write cursive backwards like DaVinci.
ForgedCrank
(3,020 posts)personally consider it an important skill, I see it as strictly cultural in nature. It does not equate to literacy at all. I think it is a great skill to keep alive, but is most certainly considered a legacy skill that is not in any way required in modern American society.
underpants
(194,842 posts)I stopped right in cursive they split second I was told I didn’t have to. I’ve written in block capitals since.
At an accounting firm I worked at, I had a partner come tell me that emails in all caps means I’m angry or yelling. Email was new to me.
Polybius
(21,509 posts)The only time that I ever write in cursive is on a card. People should write in print if they have to make notes for others to read. It's far easier for everyone to understand. I have letters from when I was a teen. Sloppy print I can make out. Sloppy cursive is a hell of a struggle to read.
iemanja
(57,378 posts)It's not their fault. They have no exposure to it. I don't know why schools decided to stop teaching it, but they have.
betsuni
(28,700 posts)care about not being able to read the partner's notes. Who cares, it's not about me! Learning cursive will take years and years of intense study! Wah, I have a disability! Ridiculous.
BlueTsunami2018
(4,854 posts)It’s not a foreign language. The problem is, so many people have such atrocious handwriting that even the most literate people can’t make heads or tails of it.
I never understood this obsession with cursive writing. I never use it except to sign my name. I print everything in block letters. It’s just easier for anyone to read and being a leftie, writing in cursive smears on the page and gets ink on my hand. I always hated being forced to write that way as a kid.
Emile
(40,582 posts)NickB79
(20,241 posts)At one time, Latin was the default language any decent education provided to the children of the wealthy and powerful. Today it's essentially dead.
I learned cursive as a child in the 80's, when it was still an educational requirement. I remember the pre-made sheets of paper with cursive letters you traced. Became very good writing and reading it.
Today? I can only sign my name (barely). I can still read it, but very, very rarely need to. My daughter simply signs her name in block print, like everything else she writes.
Language has always evolved over time. What once took centuries now takes decades. Cursive is an dying art, and it's not coming back.
thucythucy
(9,043 posts)than learning cursive.
The one takes most people years.
The other--if they're already literate--then maybe a week or two, if that.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but equating learning cursive with learning Latin is like equating learning how to add and subtract simple numbers with learning calculus.
Midwestern Democrat
(1,029 posts)Chinese as you would asking her to write them in print. However, I don't think it's reasonable in 2024 for an older executive to expect young people to know cursive - that's the kind of "dinosaur" mentality that has caused old executives to be put out to pasture.
Historic NY
(39,640 posts)My handwriting sucks came from years of driving the nuns nuts. However, that said, I had to write a pile of composition books for my masters. I sometimes wonder how they read it all.
I do read lots of ancient government documents, some scribe's had beautiful writing and others not so much.
cadoman
(1,617 posts)
DBoon
(24,710 posts)Knowing Latin was considered the standard for an educated person just a few generations ago.
Maybe instead of cursive, the boss should have written the note in Latin, then fire the new hire for being unable to understand it.
Unwind Your Mind
(2,321 posts)When I am hiring someone, one of the things I consider to be vital is the ability to write clear legible notes. I would fire the partner 😆
appmanga
(1,381 posts)Of course that doesn't make someone "functionally illiterate".
I think what happened here is unfair form the standpoint that cursive writing simply isn't taught, and apparently hasn't be taught for more than 30 years. Not being able to read certain handwriting isn't a new or novel issue. It seems to me the partner is an arrogant asshole and this young person probably deserves better for the start of their career.
La Coliniere
(1,753 posts)It was agreed by the 4th grade team I was a member of that we would teach it by using this method. I did this for 20 years and most students were proficient in reading and writing cursive by Thanksgiving. After some initial direct instruction on how the worksheets they would receive every morning should be used, it became automatic how to proceed. In a short time the kids just about taught themselves. We used the time from when the students entered the classroom to when morning announcements were broadcast to achieve this; we’re talking no more than 5-10 minutes 4/5 mornings a week. I believe learning to write and read in cursive is still important. We also embedded periodic writing assignments that had to be in cursive, in order to achieve mastery of the skill. I’ve had students who are now adults thank me for being taught cursive writing. I am still in contact with teachers from the public school I retired from 10 years ago and they are still employing that same method of teaching cursive writing. Good for them I say.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)There's no reason this employee couldn't have been given a $10 handwriting book for adults, and told to spend an hour with it each workday. He'd be reading and writing cursive within a couple of weeks.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,259 posts)Orrex
(66,671 posts)
Rob H.
(5,784 posts)and it’s entirely possible that his handwriting is so atrocious that not even someone who can read cursive can decipher it.
Betty Boom
(368 posts)There are still a great many people in office Settings of all kinds who jot notes in cursive on documents. Someone who can’t read those notes is at a disadvantage, and in fact they have to have someone Translate for them. That was my experience with my young staff who couldn’t read edit notes on reports and correspondence. And don’t tell me that those senior people should be told not to do that because that is an unreasonable expectation for people that busy.
On many occasions, I would have to take time out of my busy day to attach a translation written in block letters for the staff I knew wouldn’t be able to read the cursive writing.
I wouldn’t call them illiterate. But I would call them lacking in an essential skill for this particular job.
Gore1FL
(22,838 posts)There are times and places where knowing how to read script, include other archaic scripts, not just cursive. When that is required, then it should be learned.
When I was a kid, cursive was useful, we thought there were only two genders, gasoline had lead, we didn't wear bike helmets, and VCRs were only a thing of dreams.
Things change; so do required skillsets.
dobleremolque
(1,096 posts)True story, earlier this summer.....
Grand-daughter: "Grandpa, do you have Granny's peanut butter cookie recipe?"
Me: "Just a second, let's see.... [goes to kitchen cabinet, finds old cedar wood recipe card box, thumbs through the cards] ... "here ya go!" And I hand her the dog-eared, grease-spattered 3x5 index card that's got to be at least 60 years old.
Grand-daughter: [perplexed stare at recipe card in her grandmother's cursive handwriting] "Um, Grandpa ... did she ever type it out?"
-------------------
Not as seriously consequential as indecipherable cursive in a medical situation, but still something of family history lost.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)so she can learn to read and write cursive in her own time, if she's interested?
Jeebo
(2,551 posts)It affected my right side, and I am right-handed. I can write only by printing, and even then, I get "writer's cramp" just writing out a check. If I continue, my printing gets less and less legible. I can still type just fine, though. My right arm was a piece of rubber for 15 minutes after the stroke, then it started to return to normal. Now, it's perhaps 95 percent, but that lacking five percent makes a noticeable difference. As for reading other people's handwriting, that ability has less to do with literacy than with legibility. When I was an elementary school kid in the late 1950s, we called it not cursive or handwriting but "real writing", as if there's something unreal about printing. I never heard the term "cursive" until years later. I've always called it handwriting.
-- Ron
Renew Deal
(84,699 posts)And the problem is more likely the handwriting than the reading. Cursive isn't so different that a regular english reader can't decipher it. The firm should look at this from both angles. How frequently do people encounter cursive? Is the partner able to effectively communicate?
They might have considered moving the junior person to another partner, but there might not be anyone that willingly wants to switch to this partner.
I'm not worried about signatures. Signatures don't only happen in english, don't have to be legible words. The young will find a way, just like their elders did. 
Renew Deal
(84,699 posts)So it looks like listing the ability to read cursive is not unheard of. Interestingly, some of the jobs are cooks.
Drum
(10,569 posts)I definitely want to revisit this thread….
mucholderthandirt
(1,753 posts)At my last job, I saw many young people who couldn't hand write much, if anything and their signature was basically a scribble. They said they're taught to do that so no one could copy their signature and steal their ID.
It was a load of nonsense then, and it is now. Seems it's gotten a lot worse, too. Another failure of education, when people are not taught and actively discouraged to learn how to actually handwrite. Teach to the test, don't learn to think, to reason, follow the rules, be good little robotic workers. At least, until the actual robots, run by "AI" takes their jobs.
travelingthrulife
(4,463 posts)the cards and notes written in cursive at his wedding reception a few summers ago. This is not an archaic form of communication, it is still current.
Emile
(40,582 posts)grade school.
J-9
(116 posts)Most of my students can't read or write cursive. I write their names in cursive and give it to them to trace and practice so they can have a signature. They really appreciate that because they want their own signature.
I tell the students who can read and write cursive to keep that skill, they may get paid for writing invites or using it in the future when no one else can.
Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)It doesn't have to be their name, or even a word. It doesn't even have to be made manually by the person making the signature.
All it has to be is a mark made with the present intent to authenticate the item being signed.
Mine is cursive-ish, but not legible and not the same each time. Both my daughter's and my spouse's are printed.
Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #155)
PeaceWave This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)Is a signature.
nini
(16,820 posts).
Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)If it is a job requirement, it needs to be part of the application process.
Here I was addressing the concept that cursive is necessary to be a signature.
nini
(16,820 posts)I meant this as a reply to the OP question in general.
To add tou your point though - My signature is a mix of printing and cursive so it's not pure cursive either. My nun teachers would not be happy 😊
Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)I was addressing whether something which is not written in cursive can be a signature.
I also addressed that above, in detail. If reading cursive writing is an essential skill for the job, it should be included in the job application process - the same as any other skill which is no longer routinely taught (sewing, driving a manual transmission, etc.), not sprung on someone as a necessary skill after they are hired.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)If they give the new hire a handwriting book for adults and have them spend an hour on it each workday, the employee will be reading cursive within a couple of weeks. If they don't want to be bothered with that, they should include it in the qualifications in the job listings, and ask about it during interviews. It's no secret that many young people weren't taught cursive in school.
Emrys
(8,927 posts)The software takes your given name and produces a few sample signatures roughly resembling handwriting as options. You're asked to choose the one that most closely resembles your actual signature (or you otherwise find acceptable).
None of the ones I've been offered has ever borne the slightest resemblance to my actual signature (which varies over time anyway), but they are apparently legally acceptable and binding.
Kaleva
(40,162 posts)Nobody has questioned it although a few have jokingly asked me if I was a doctor.
Ms. Toad
(38,240 posts)and a few cross-backs. Formally, there should be two loops for my middle name, and two for my last name. Nothing in any of my names requires cross-backs (like i, t, F, H, etc.).
I've had my signature questioned - not because it isn't my signature, but because they were trying to do a signature match to a decades old signature to verify I was the person authorized to sign (voting, opening a financial account).
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,594 posts)... that there are apps to translate cursive to text.
Not writing cursive should not be much of a hindrance, as long as the corporate partner can read printed letters.
Stupid reason to lose a job. Stupid reason to fire someone.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)Or else the handwriting they were expected to read is so shitty that even the apps can't decipher it.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,594 posts)Way back when I worked, the emphasis was on getting the project done on time. No questions asked about tools, apps, free java objects, etc.
Kaleva
(40,162 posts)I can easily read both.
My cursive has always been unintelligible. I can print a few words but more then that, it devolves into some kind of alien language.
Patton French
(1,821 posts)It’ll probably go the way of the dodo bird.
Response to Patton French (Reply #177)
PeaceWave This message was self-deleted by its author.
Patton French
(1,821 posts)Just my 2 cents.
madaboutharry
(42,027 posts)Students in Europe and other western countries learn cursive as part of a mandatory school curriculum, including learning to write cursive in English. What a pity that American students are now unable to read cursive in their own language while their generational peers, for whom English is a second language, can.
There have been a number of studies that indicate writing in cursive enhances critical thinking, development of fine motor skills, and information retention.
I also believe that developing good and legible penmanship is a source of accomplishment and self-esteem.
It was a mistake to discontinue teaching cursive and that decision needs to be reversed.
LSparkle
(12,119 posts)Wait until the machines fail and then we’ll find out. Back to hieroglyphics on cave walls.