Continuing the discussion about adding a couple of new forums to DU

[EarlG]

Hi all,

I previously floated the idea that we should open a new forum to discuss the future of the Democratic Party. That thread received a lot of positive responses, and a lot of good name suggestions. Given that most of the suggestions recommended a forward-looking approach, I'm currently considering that we call this forum The Way Forward. I'm still working on a Statement of Purpose, but I think this new forum is a good idea, and something we will do early in the new year.

I'm also going to propose an idea for a second new forum. Here's the deal. The fact is that the noise-to-signal ratio in American politics is off the charts right now, and as we all know, this is something that Donald Trump relishes in, and uses (effectively, unfortunately) to keep his supporters in line and his opponents off balance.

My proposal is that we open a new top-level forum solely for the discussion of whatever the latest Trump BS may be, and I suggest that we call this forum Latest Trump BS. What do I mean by latest Trump BS? I mean anything that he spews out to troll, distract, misinform, or float as a trial balloon, as opposed to things his administration is actually doing in real life.

For example, a news story about a late-night tweet from Trump suggesting that we take over Greenland would be perfect for the Latest Trump BS forum. However, a news story about about Donald Trump directing the Joint Chiefs of Staff to start drawing up invasion plans for Greenland would be more appropriate in General Discussion or Latest Breaking News.

Currently we are set up to treat these stories as if they are the same thing, and so General Discussion gets a mashup of content which mixes Trump's brain farts with his actual policies and actions. But really, they are not the same thing at all, and this seems to be the conundrum that American media is currently struggling with. Because Trump will be president, every single thing he says is treated as if it's newsworthy, even if most of the things he says are more reminiscent of someone's drunk uncle propping up the end of the bar.

Like it or not, we are stuck with Trump for another four years, Meanwhile, Trump fatigue is real -- most of us are suffering from it even now, and he hasn't even been inaugurated yet. But we can't NOT talk about Trump for the next four years -- this is a political website, and Donald Trump will be the president.

The idea of this new top-level forum would be to try to separate the noise from the signal -- to provide a place where those who wish to engage with the latest Trump BS are free to do so (I have no criticism of anyone who would want to do that), while those who would like to engage in discussions of the actual real-world ramifications of Trump's actual policies, while avoiding much of the other extraneous BS should they choose to do so, can use GD or LBN.

This would require some finesse, attention from Forum Hosts, and some patience while we work to figure out what goes where, but I think that it might be doable.

That said, we might try it and find out that it's impractical. It might not be easy to figure out which threads should go where, and that might lead to annoyance and confusion among the membership in general.

And so, I present this idea for your consideration. What do you think?

[malaise]

1. Well he could croak and do the planet a favor

It’s a good idea. Let’s see how it works

Happy Holidays

[AdamGG]

53. I'd chip in to triple size

his McDonald's orders.

[malaise]

68. LOl

😀

[cilla4progress]

2. I like it.

Thanks, EarlG!

[Chin music]

3. Can we get back the 'creative speculation' forum too?

Seemed like a great place to explore new ideas WO being accused of being a crack-pot, imho.
Happy New Year EG.

[emulatorloo]

63. I always thought it was a great place for crack-pots and conspiracy theories. It was nice to have that confined to

a space I could ignore! So I miss it too.

[Chin music]

65. What a rude thing to say. And really unsolicited.

I'd define reading some of your posts but, it's a holiday.
Luckily that function does work on individuals. I'd request you use it. Seems to be the same thing I hear here frequently. I'd hate to harsh your mellow should you inadvertantly stumble on a creative idea.
Get some rest.
Happy New Year Emuleratoo.
cm

[UpInArms]

4. I like it ...

Can the bs forum include all his hideous pictures and videos, so those of us who cannot abide by viewing or hearing him can avoid it whenever possible?

[ZDU]

5. Motion to Approve

Aye!

[underpants]

58. All in favor say Aye! (Loud murmuring) all opposed say No (quieter murmuring)

There you have it, the Aye’s are above the No’s.

👀
🤥

[ZDU]

79. LOL

[MineralMan]

6. Well, it's your website, so go for it.

I'm a dedicated General Discussion DUer. It's where I am when I'm on DU. It collects the thinking of a wide range of DUers into one convenient list of topics. So, I never feel the need to wander away from it.

I don't expect I will change those habits. If my browser is open, there is a tab on it that holds the General Discussion forum. Always. I dip in frequently, just to see if anything new is going on or being discussed. If so, I check it out. If not, I go elsewhere and do other things.

That's how I use DU. How others use it is up to them, of course.

I'll continue to do so, as long as there's stuff that interests me here. In General Discussion.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. I approve heartily of both these forums! Absolutely right and thank you, my dear EarlG! nt

[bif]

8. I'm all in!

I say go for it.

[DeepWinter]

9. Would love that

Keep Trump in the BS forum where he belongs and GD will quit being littered with Trump posts.

/Bravo!

[Clouds Passing]

34. EXACTLY! So burnt out with dump posts!

[canetoad]

10. I think it's a good idea

Sort of like putting him in a cage.

[Think. Again.]

44. That's an even BETTER idea!!!

[msongs]

11. sometimes this place seems like trumpunderground. how bout a forum for all Trump posts? nt

[2naSalit]

12. Sound like good ideas.

[KatK]

13. Yes!!! Thanks! n/t

[Blue Dawn]

14. Absolutely brilliant ideas, EarlG.

I would be grateful to have separate forums re Trump's asinine nonsense versus any actual orders/plans to attempt to execute his asinine nonsense into reality.

Thank you!

[mahina]

15. Excellent.

[ItsjustMe]

16. I for one have had it with Trump

I have no desire to look at his ugly face or listen to his stupid voice ever again. I will be trashing the new "Latest Trump BS" forum.

[Mike 03]

17. "Latest Trump BS" is an outstanding idea

Wow. I know none of the things you are experimenting with right now will necessarily be easy, or work seamlessly at first, and that we will all learn as we go. But my hot take on that second forum is that it could have very positive consequences all around. For one thing, it would eliminate excessive posting about one single news item. And if a DUer posts about the latest Trump BS in GD, users can kindly remind the poster that it is more suitable for the new forum. Over time, we will use better judgment in deciding which issues should be posted in which forums.

Additionally, the Trump BS forum could attenuate the dismay of some DUers who don't want to see so many (or any) posts about Trump--not a realistic demand if DU is to remain a predominantly political website. It won't eliminate posts about Trump, but it will trim the number that appear in GD. It will focus them into a forum that Users who don't want to see anything about Trump can avoid.

As responsible DUers we will have to train ourselves, and each other, to utilize these new forums correctly. It probably won't be perfect at first.

DU is an amazing website, from the ease and effectiveness of its interface and the ingenious jury system, to the good sense that most users use in selecting the proper forum for their posts. I've been here a long time and am still discovering new features.

Happy Holidays, EarlG, and have a wonderful New Year.

[LeftInTX]

18. "Trump says...." vs what Trump does....

Some don't think what he says is BS. I tend to think it is.

[TBF]

19. Have to admit I laughed out loud at "Latest Trump BS" -

but it is a brilliant idea. I have definitely seen folks that are already suffering PTSD and don't even want to see his ridiculous orange mug, and who can blame them. I really like the idea of keeping his ramblings separate, because it currently looks like Musk (and maybe JV) will be running the joint.

I am really dreading the coming few years, but I also really want to know what they actually do, so keeping GD clean would be much appreciated.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. I like it.

[JoseBalow]

21. What would happen when drumpf BS gets posted outside that forum?

I can already envision the cries of "that belongs in the BS forum."

Or conversely, "that asshole is serious about that" for stuff posted there.

[EarlG]

27. I'd say you've identified the concern

Like with pretty much everything else about the way DU works, people would have to understand that this wouldn’t be perfect and there would have to be compromises.

I’m not saying, “Trump stuff goes over here, non-Trump stuff goes over there.” I’m saying it would be a forum for that very particular type of Trump news, the type where he says or does something awful in order to get attention or create a diversion, but other than the awful thing itself, it’s not really newsworthy. When he’s trolling, basically.

Trump’s going to be president so he’s going to make a lot of legitimate news. That would still be acceptable in GD or LBN. The other forum would be exclusively for the “BS” as described above.

The main sticking point will be the definition of “BS,” and that’s what people will argue over. But we would have a Statement of Purpose and Hosts to enforce it, and it’s not like we’ve never done stuff like this before, in various ways. So there would probably be some growing pains, but it might work.

[wnylib]

50. I can see how distinguishing between BS and real news

could be a problem sometimes.

Example: In 2020 his BS was that he won the election. Michael Cohen warned that he would not leave office peacefully. The Atlantic published an article about how Trump could try to overthrow the election after the courts ruled against him

GD posts were split between whether Trump was just blowing hot air or if he would or could really try to overturn the election.

Turned out to be not just BS.

Sometimes what sounds like BS from him is real -- or will be real after he floats it around for a while in BS statements.

That said, yes, it's a good idea to move Trump BS statements out of GD to their own forum so that GD posts can cover other issues besides Trump's latest attention getting trolling behavior.

It might turn out to be an interesting social-political experiment in psychological profiling of an authoritarian politician. How many of his BS statements, if any, will turn into real news?

[littlemissmartypants]

22. Honestly...

I had decided to start avoiding even spending time here in the new year because of the proliferation of Trump Junk. It's not news and serves no purpose but to signal boost his insanity and I ain't into that.

So, if you were to create a designated area for his nonsense I believe that it would be in the best interest of your enterprise.

I'm here to help. Let me know if you have any need for me.

Thanks.

[Vinca]

23. Seems a bit "snow flakey" to me, but I appear to be in the minority.

IMO, if you don't want to read about Trump, don't click on anything about Trump.

[EarlG]

28. See my reply above

It’s not about separating Trump stuff from non-Trump stuff, it’s about separating irrelevant Trump trolling from important Trump news that people need to know about.

[Fiendish Thingy]

24. I support creating both forums

I also plead with you to resurrect the creative speculation forum, so posts about various CT’s can go there and not clutter GD.

[LiberalFighter]

25. The party needs to be better organized and responsive.

So people understand what the party represents and why it is better for the country and people.

[Shipwack]

26. Good idea, I think it will be useful, but...

Would the BS forum posts still end up on the front page? Right now, there is no way to determine which forum the "above the fold" stories come from until you click on it. Unless I am missing something, in which case I apologize for being dense.

[SpankMe]

29. "Trump's Latest Idiocy" carries more of a punch. n/t

[FrankTC]

30. Good Idea

It will help to curate and organize the incoming — we’ll have at least a modicum of agency and feel less helpless.

[Auggie]

31. Great ideas.

[Tbear]

32. I want to know "what they are actually doing in real life"

ie, I totally missed the China restrictions removal from the third temporary spending bill until it was over
Another: A House Republican introduced a bill to back cryptocurrency with federal reserves. I can’t recall her name or state but I know I read about it on this site

How can we have a reasonable forum to highlight the thefts?
I don’t care about everyday grifts that can go in the bs forum. That’s sad right there.

“What do I mean by latest Trump BS? I mean anything that he spews out to troll, distract, misinform, or float as a trial balloon, as opposed to things his administration is actually doing in real life. “ -EarlG

I call all the nonsense “Squirrels “.
When you are walking your dog and you don’t want him getting into the Turkey doo. Distract the pup by yelling “Squirrel” and pointing the other way.

Another random thought: there will be a slew of executive orders on January 20.

[Scrivener7]

33. I like the idea of quarantining news of trump trolling. A lot.

[Think. Again.]

41. Me too.

[ProfessorGAC]

35. Both Seem Excellent Ideas

Especially the notion of having a separate forum for discussing the verbal drool du jour!

[Mr.Bill]

36. I fully support both forum ideas.

Last edited Thu Dec 26, 2024, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I look forward to using them both.

[BumRushDaShow]

37. That is some good parsing of what will probably be reality

since the media has fixated on both the "trial balloon crazy shit" as tabloid-style click bait and the "actuals" that happen with signed Executive Orders/Actions (that I assume will be starting within hours after noon ET January 20, 2025), as well as any "proposed or submitted" Regulations by any of his "confirmed" Department heads

[Clouds Passing]

38. Putting all dump news in one forum is an idea I'm on board with.

Also Democratic Party moving forward forum.

And CT forum.

[Hekate]

39. You are very much on to the right ideas, EarlG, & I like where you're going...

I especially would love to see Trump’s blather segregated away from GD and LBN.

[Think. Again.]

40. I absolutely love the "trump BS forum" idea!

We have seem many, many posts lately seemingly intending to just amplify rightwing B.S., and I believe that relegating any non-consequential chatter to it's own forum would reduce the risk of tainting the atmosphere with whatever nonsense he is trying to get us talking about.

It would help to keep our other discussion spaces cleaner for actual discussion on actual topics of concern and interest, without having to constantly counter the attempts at distraction and division all the time.

Edit to add:

Yes, I am very much looking forward to "trashing" the new trump Bs forum!

[WiVoter]

42. Sounds Good To Me

Thank you 👍

[Cha]

43. Brilliant about Keeping TSF's BS in

one Gigantic Forum... Hope it Works.

Although I doubt I'll be visiting!

Thank You & Elad Many Times!!!

[Jughead]

45. YES

Sounds fantastic!

[RainCaster]

46. Hell yes! I like that idea

We are right back into that "you won't believe what he said today" mode. Might as well have a forum dedicated to it. It will be interesting to see how the trolls react to that particular forum.

[eppur_se_muova]

47. Well, almost everything tsf does is BS, so maybe "Trump Noise" would be more to the point.

I'm OK with it either way.

[keithbvadu2]

48. Try it. Some ideas work out, some don't. It's good to find out either way.

[Onthefly]

49. Agree. Both forums are great ideas.

[Silver Gaia]

51. I like it, Earl!

Looking foward to these changes.

Thank you!

[Peer Gynt]

52. The bs forum is excellent idea...

…to corral that bs into one area. In fact all these ideas are good. Thanks for all the fantastic work you do!

—from a professional DU lurker!

[Magoo48]

54. Excellent new idea.

The home page being covered with pictures of the orange one gets very tiresome.

[AdamGG]

55. I think these are great ideas - then we'd have a Way Forward forum and

a WAY WAY Backward forum. Seriously, it would be good to separate the Trump BS from the actual political discussion. It would be nice if the MSM could do the same.

[Paladin]

56. Great ideas. Let's do it, forthwith. (nt)

[Emrys]

57. Could "Latest Trump BS" be extended some way to incorporate the BS from Musk?

It's usually as trolly and distracting as anything Trump spouts. At the moment they overlap, and that may change, but I don't know how long you envisage these new forums lasting, and adjustments to developing reality could be made.

On the much-maligned Twitter, the amount I read about or from both Musk and Trump is every limited because of the way I have it set up. If I feel the need to check out what they're up to, I can search there or visit a hashtag there, and hell mend me if I do. Otherwise, I see far more about them on DU than I do on Twitter, and that's been the case for a long, long time. And those OPs usually seem to get the most attention.

[SallyHemmings]

59. I love it!

Both great ideas.

[happybird]

60. Love it!

He's sucking up all the air and some days I have a hard time trying to breathe. If most of us are already sick of seeing his name and face, it's just going to keep getting worse. Having the majority of his bs sequestered to one forum should help.

Thank you for all the hard work you do for us. ❤️

[WarGamer]

61. My suggestion... could we have a Satire/Parody forum?

And make posting nonsense, misinformation and woo in GD a ToS violation?

Every damn day we have threads getting 100 recs which are fake... and people buy it

[Lulu KC]

62. I think it's a great idea

Re the two DT ones: I would be able to avoid the one that only depresses me and read the one that I need to read to stay current on important items.

[berniesandersmittens]

64. Like it, but enforcement could be a nightmare nt

[Zenlitened]

66. I worry some will define "BS" as...

… “things I don’t personally care about.” And that as a result are just “fringe issues,” mere “distractions” from the “real issues” facing the Democratic Party and the American people as a whole.

I’m sure you can imagine any number of topics that might be incorrectly brushed aside — by some — as “just the latest Trump BS” so “keep it outta GD.”

One example still vivid in my mind: LGBT+ issues. We waited a long time, many years ago, to “get our pony.” As the parlance of the day put it. Now the L and the G are in political danger once again, while the T is under truly brutal assault in ways I don’t think many DUers fully appreciate or understand.

How to head this off? I urge you to include language in the new forum’s Statement of Purpose specific to marginalized groups. A reminder to participants that “marginalized” does not mean “marginal” or “unimportant” or “just riling up his base.” Or any other dismissive term that might relegate Trump’s tweets/xits or whatever to the “latest BS” file.

You’ve got solid language in place already, to ensure the dignity of marginalized people is maintained around DU. I urge you to draw from that when writing up the Statement of Purpose for the new BS forum. Because the new forum can be a great addition if — as you’ve noted — we can all work together and agree on a definition of “BS” that helps more than it hinders.

[greatauntoftriplets]

67. As someone who enjoys images of drumpf looking stupid...

I strongly endorse the "latest BS" forum. Sometimes I need a good laugh when I inform myself of whatever idiot idea he's pushing now.

Well done!

[ariadne0614]

69. I'm thinking about what Rachel says.

’Watch what they do, NOT what they say.” That’s why I like the idea of separating them. My suggestions for the forum title are, Trump Trash Talk, or Trump Dump

[proud patriot]

71. Exactly

announcements from the trump toilet .

[B.See]

70. I think a forum for Trump stuff

is a good idea, though I'm less inclined to make the distinction between Trump bs and what he actually does, especially since (imo) what he actually does is motivated by bs in the first place. After which his defenders, apologists etc. employ more bs to cover for it.

But at least it'll create an area for discussion by those interested in said discussions.

I think there have always been those adverse to topics, discussions, news items, information relating to Trump - for some, perhaps, too much information.

[Be The Light]

72. Perhaps also one for us Berners

on Democratic Socialism.

It's time to move on. (might be a good title)

Go ahead fire away.

[c-rational]

73. I like it. Give it a try.

[consider_this]

74. Like the idea, but NOT seeing TSFs actual name on a forum title...

How about substituting his name in the forum title with something we all know connotes him -and I submit that 'TSF" (Thank you Joe!) does it for me.

[yellow dahlia]

75. I am still relatively new to DU, so I hesitate to have an opinion about the logistics of new forums, but...

when it comes to the grifter, much of what he says is projection. Given that the projection is also a confession, would it open up a lot of debate as to which forum it belongs in? One person's confession is another person's BS.

It sounds like you anticipate working out the kinks, as they present themselves. And I think cooperation on "our" part is key to that.

My final thought - I am so glad to have joined DU at just the right time. Thank you fellow DU'ers for your brilliant minds and supportive atmosphere. And thank you Earl G., for providing this singularly valuable resource.

[flying rabbit]

76. I like it.

he's going to throw out bullshit to obfuscate his grift. Lets corral it in another forum.

[Ms. Toad]

77. I like the idea of both additional forums.

I'd like them even better if there was a way to move threads, rather than locking them. I know that's a lot more work, if it is even possible. But at least while people are getting used to the new structure, it might help people learn what goes where - and allow 100+ threads that get locked to continue (rather than people who were involved in the conversation before the lock trying to continue it in the same forum - since the lock message is posted at the end of the thread and people often don't scroll that far).

I also still have the same suggestion I made in one of the other threads: If more criticism of Democrats is to be allowed in "The Way Forward" forum, it would be helpful if the jury identified the forum for the alerted threads. We've already had a few posts claiming that more criticism is allowed on DU (generally) based on your prior thread. If the latitude really is forum-specific, juries should know that when reviewing a post.

[EarlG]

90. The ability to move threads would probably make things easier

I have considered the same thing myself, and I agree that it would likely help. But I haven't yet discussed this as an official project with Elad, so I'm really not sure how much work it would be.

We are currently testing a forum identifier on Jury service. When the Jury system was originally created, it was during a very contentious time on DU. At the time we had popular, busy forums for supporters of different Democratic candidates/personalities, and we thought (probably rightly) that if someone knew that a post was in a particular candidate supporter's group, it would lead to prejudiced decisions. Since that state of affairs does not currently exist on DU, I don't see it as so much as a problem. I'm testing this personally at the moment -- if we think the forum identifier is going to work out, we'll make it available to everyone.

[intrepidity]

78. "Trump's Brain Farts"

I mean, there's the forum name right there.

[niyad]

80. Sounds good to me.

[WheelWalker]

81. You're a 'go' for throttle up from where I sit.

[live love laugh]

82. Trump BS is a 'yes' but The Way Fwd (TWF) gives me anxiety.

This forum will be open season for trolls I’m afraid.
Already there’ve been numerous anti-Dem posts from people who say Earl G gave them permission for that.

Also there’re so many lurking eyes here who will gladly steal anything good that’s proposed and “catapult the propaganda” so to speak of not so good topics. (I’ve seen stuff go from here to the media.)

Trump BS I welcome because almost everything’s BS coming from him.

[EarlG]

91. Well, the thing is...

...anti-Dem posts are not necessarily prohibited on DU. Over the past decade or so anti-Dem posts have become less of a problem naturally, because with Trump in power for four years, and then Trump still running for president for the four years after that, Democrats have been very broadly united. There has naturally been less criticism of Democrats on DU, because it's been abundantly clear to everyone where the real threat lies.

But with Trump entering office as a lame duck, and with the Democratic Party looking to be in need of new leaders and a strategy for the future, and with the fact that it won't be long (if you can believe it) before prominent Democrats start making noises about running for president, we are entering a new phase.

The reason DU is currently relatively light on criticism of Democrats is not because I've been strictly enforcing rules about what people can and can't say, but because people have naturally eased up on the criticism on their own. But that is likely going to change going forward, and I'd rather address it head-on and try to set expectations now, than try to reassure everyone that it won't happen.

People are going to want to have these discussions, so the purpose of having a separate forum is to create some peace of mind for those who don't want to engage, while providing a space for those who do. I hope that makes sense.

[Hope22]

83. Thank you EarlG.

I like the idea of putting the trump posts in a separate forum. Is it possible to suggest a photo warning if his photo is included? I know that I am not the only one who is really tired of seeing his mug. Thank you for all that you do. Happy New Year to you!

[Shrek]

84. Let the community decide

Add a "BS" and "Not BS" button to each post (similar to Rec).

If the BS ratio reaches some defined threshold, it automatically moves to the BS forum.

[William769]

85. May I suggest instead of

Latest Trump BS, that it simple be called The Trump Cabal.

[Kali]

86. wouldn't it be fantastic

if the regular news media tried something like quarantining his bullshit? here's hoping it works and that it catches on.

and, like great aunt, I enjoy looking and laughing at him, but some days you just get sick of it.

[mdbl]

87. Great idea. I am willing to try anything to stop the insanity.

[defacto7]

88. Sounds good. n/t

[msfiddlestix]

89. An excellent idea, I don't think it should be too confusing, or at least for the most part.

My current inclinations are to avoid almost everything related to the noise and especially videos.
Fatigue combined with high levels of angst is a real thing, as you underscored.

[HereForTheParty]

92. Trump tweeting he wants to take Greenland is news

And news sources treated as such. The sad fact is as president-elect and later as president what he says is news even if it's a brain fart.

I was also hoping for a forum where we could take a harder look at Democrats, but maybe that's what the way forward is about. Hopefully that is the form where we will be given a little more leeway.

[Wild blueberry]

93. Excllent ideas

Very refreshing, especially for the many of us who were hoping never to see his face or hear his voice every again.

It will be good practice for all of us to learn to differentiate between Frump's trolling and his administration's vile plans.
Wish the media would do the same, but they won't. Not the corporate media.

THANK YOU!

[peggysue2]

94. I would try it

It would be an attempt to do what the current MSM seems incapable or unwilling to do--separate the nonsense from the stuff that has serious implications for all of us. Won't be easy because the distractions are given equal time and equal importance in the tangled mix, sometimes more because of the entertainment factor.

It's a large part of Agent Orange's appeal to devoted MAGA types--the hilarious bad boy. I've never understood it but it's a thing.

So let's try it. If it becomes a headache and/or unwieldy? Go on to something else. At least it's an attempt to do something different, rather than endlessly complaining about the state of American journalism. I'm as a guilty as anyone on that front.

I'm a yes vote!

[ZonkerHarris]

95. We need a forum just for members to complain about CNN and MSNBC on air personalities

Keep that shit out of GD

[Hugin]

96. We should probably add a forum for Privit President Musk while we're at it. n/t

[spanone]

97. K&R