Did Hamas get the results they wanted

[edhopper]

with their brutal attack on October 7th? I am not defending Israel's out of proportion response. But what is happened was triggered because Hamas thought the savage slaughter of innocent Israelis was good thing to do.
Do you think the complete destruction of Gaza was an acceptable outcome for them? What did they think would happen?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

1. In terms of propaganda, I would say that HAMAs got exactly what they wanted with help from Israel.nt

[edhopper]

3. So I guess they are good

with over 40,000 of their citizens dead and the leveling of their territory?

Acceptable losses I guess?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

9. Apparently so,

although I've got to wonder if they now think it was acceptable losses, what with the annihilation of their upper leaders.

[mcar]

40. They said so themselves

after their terror attack, that they wanted Palestinians to die.

[DeepWinter]

17. Yep

They got exactly what they wanted. The West to turn on Israel. 100% absolutely nailed it.

[Jit423]

2. What Hamas did was really no surprise. They promised to retaliate for Israeli targeting and killing their highly

respected generals and others AND for the land grabs that continues across all of the Palestinian territories. If you check the actual facts, most attacks by Hamas occurred after Israel attacked them but the media never reports on the precipitating events by Israel the way it reports of responsive attacks by Hamas. One has only to remember how Israel uses what they call "pre-emptive" strikes against sovereign nations like Iran. Iran was and probably still is the one nation in the mid-east without nuclear arms when negotiations were begun years ago about their seeking enriched uranium. Because Iran supports other ME countries in their conflicts against Israeli hegemony, Iran is accused of sponsoring terrorism. On the other hand, the USA is not accused of sponsoring terrorism when we support bad actors across the globe as they are occupying and terrorizing nations...what has gone on and is still going on in south and central America is a prime example of US support for tyrants and terrorists in other nations because we don't like their socialistic politics as well as our covering for the grand cartels and their American CEOs. Ask Oliver North.

[Mosby]

6. Is this satire?

[edhopper]

8. I did not know

that Israel has complete dominance in the Middle East. Do the Saudis know this? What about Qatar, Jordan, Iraq and Kuwait?
What else could be meant by Israeli Hegemony?

[Mosby]

14. We should ask those highly respected Hamas Generals

How it came to pass.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

13. More like propaganda. nt

[MarineCombatEngineer]

11. Wow!!

That is some grade A comedy there buddy.

[yardwork]

20. "Highly respected generals?"

How are things in North Korea today?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

22. How are things going in Iran lately?

Highly respected Generals

Your whole post is comedy gold, I'm loving it.

[tritsofme]

35. lol this rant is a bit inconvenient to the "no one actually supports Hamas here" narrative.

[tetedur]

4. They figured Israel's response to their atrocity would be over the top and Israel would rain down atrocity on

the entire region. The world would blame Israel for killing thousands and destroying anyone and anything threatening them or even just those caught in the crossfire. Hamas doesn't give a shit about the people who would be slaughtered or maimed. Neither does Israel. This conflict is between two groups living in the same region that think that neither has the right to exist.

Atrocity begats atrocity. We never learn our lesson as we spiral around and around in death and destruction. We are too childish to talk to one another and work things out.

It's an old question but it still rings true. How many deaths will it take until we know that too many people have died?

[edhopper]

5. It's always one more

((

[BunkieBandit]

43. I texted Sinwar before October 7

and told him , You better not F**k with the boys in Israel". But noooo, they didn't listen.

[NickB79]

7. They thought the Muslim world would rally to their cause to wipe out Israel

They expected Hezbollah, Iran and Yemen to hit Israel with a full-force, multi-front assault in their aid and start a war with the ultimate goal of wiping Israel off the face of the earth.

Unfortunately for them, their "allies" were not as suicidal as they were.

[edhopper]

10. A miscalculation

the size of Pearl Harbor.

[Frasier Balzov]

12. No they didn't. Time to throw in the towel.

Release the hostages, including what must surely be their many corpses.

Accept the humiliation and benefits of being a vassal society, or suffer further relentless ethnic cleansing.

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

15. Since you asked, I think people in that part of the world are just plain nuts, and not deep thinkers.

I'm not taking sides with any of them. Killing is wrong. I sometimes wonder if people that believe in life after death have no qualms about killing, because in their minds, the dead are just going to hop up out of their graves and continue on living. La-de-da ad infinitum.

As to the OP, I don't think Hamas really thought things through and bit off more than they could chew. Same could be said for Israel and the Republican Party here in the states. Religion has rotted all of their brains.

[Mossfern]

27. Judaism does not believe in life after death

Life after death is not a central belief in Judaism. How Jews live their lives on Earth is considered to be more important than a possible afterlife. Jewish scripture has very little to say on matters of life after death.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zh9vgdm/revision/3

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

29. I've heard that, but I'm not fully convinced as there seems to be a lot of gray area

in Judaism. If it turns out the name/word judea has Egyptian roots, then things might get a little more complicated about their afterlife beliefs.

[Mossfern]

31. That really has no bearing on current beliefs

We all acknowledge that our forefathers/ mothers were pagan.

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

33. Unless the word/name "judea" conflicts with those current beliefs.

If not, fine.

[Mossfern]

34. I don't see how that has any bearing

on Jewish beliefs for the past several hundred years or more.
Jews consider themselves the Nation of Israel, not necessarily Jews.

The word "Jew" comes from the Hebrew term Yehudi, which is derived from the name of the ancient Israelite kingdom of Judah:

Origin
The word Yehudi comes from the name of Judah, one of Jacob's twelve sons and the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel.

History
The word Yehudi was originally used to refer to members of the tribe of Judah, but after the Babylonian Exile, it came to refer to all followers of Judaism.
Evolution
The word Yehudi passed into Greek as Ioudaios, then into Latin as Iudaeus, and eventually into Old French as giu.
Biblical appearance
The word "Jew" first appears in the Bible in Kings II 16:6.

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

38. Look, I don't have a problem with folks that don't believe in life after death.

I don't either. Or actually, I'm more like it's all or nothing. Meaning, every living thing on this planet survives death regardless of deeds or misdeeds, or it's complete lights out at death, all cessation of life, including the soul (if there even is such a thing) ceasing to exist. Who knows? No one knows, including me. Surely, the vast majority of religious people believe otherwise.

As to the name Judea, I'm not convinced it was ever a physical place on a map. And I don't give much credence to Biblical characters, like Jacob/Judah and a host of others, being anything more than the repackaging of ancient gods.

[Mossfern]

39. So? Unpackaging of ancient gods - no big deal for me.

The issue is that Jews - no matter what geographical location of their origin, do not believe in an afterlife.
No heaven, no hell - just here on this planet. We do good for the sake of Tikkun Olam - repairing the world.
We don't expect any reward.

Yes, on Yom Kippur we are judged, but any "punishment" happens in this life, not in the next. Kinda like instant karma.

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

41. Does the name Judea come from Auset?

Aka Isis?

[Mossfern]

42. Honestly I don't know

and I really don't care. That makes no difference in the context of what Jewish people think of an afterlife at least for the past couple thousand years.

It displays some academic curiosity, which I support, but is totally irrelevant here.


on edit: I do find Egyptian mythology fascinating and own a copy of the Egyptian Book of the Dead sitting on my bookshelf.

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

45. "If" the name/concept "Judea" reflects a pro-immortality mindset,

then perhaps a name change is in order. Ideological and theological concepts presented as fictional places (Judea) or fictional people (Judah) might not jive with current beliefs.

[Mossfern]

46. Doesn't matter

I already presented what current people of the Jewish religion believe.
It's been established that they were once pagans- no big deal.... actually very cool IMHO.
If you have other information besides conjecture It would be interesting to see.

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

47. And what I said in my first post on this thread still stands:

"I sometimes wonder if people that believe in life after death have no qualms about killing, because in their minds, the dead are just going to hop up out of their graves and continue on living. La-de-da ad infinitum"

No mention of Jewish/Judaism beliefs in my comment, just a generalized statement. Until proven otherwise, I will continue to believe the word Judea is associated with afterlife beliefs. If pagans used the term, maybe it's time to replace it with something more up to date.

[Mossfern]

48. I see that you're having a hard time

providing any documentation supporting your theories about the origin about Judaism - that has nothing to do with the subject.

My original response to your statement did deal with those who do not believe in an after life and what that may look like. Perhaps it was a bit defensive because of all the blame I see of Israelis on this forum killing with that abandon - therefore my statement.

It's the belief of Hamas that if they (Hamas) are killed in battle, that they will have become martyrs and have a amazing afterlife in heaven. I don't think that they think or care about the disposition of their victims.

I argue that your premise that people who do believe in a life after death kill/torture with no moral concern because their victims will come back in some afterlife is erroneous.

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

49. I do not need a lecture from you, or provide you with documentation.

Look, Hamas might be your enemy, but I'm not. If you don't mind, I'm kinda done with this subject You say Judaism has no afterlife beliefs, fine. I don't see it that way. Later.

[Igel]

30. They live in a crazy neighborhood.

When among the crazies, one means of protection is to out-crazy them. If your reaction is predictable, then they know a way to control you and that means they can plan on how to use your response.

But if you out-crazy them, if you're response is sideways, unexpected, or the response itself is disproportionate, then they're kept guessing.

[LeftInTX]

16. Classic FAFO

[yardwork]

18. Hamas was armed and encouraged to attack by outside actors.

Certainly Putin was involved, possibly other states as well.

Putin had his 2016-style propaganda machine primed and ready to go on the morning of Oct 8. Long before Israel's response, the internet was flooded with anti-Israeli posts and they quickly became extremely anti-Jewish. "Grassroots" anti-Israeli demonstrations erupted simultaneously around the country, using the same talking points and imagery.

The whole thing was planned and designed to divide American progressives from Biden and help ensure Trump's victory. "Genocide Joe has got to go" worked beautifully, just like in 2016.

Hamas are willing pawns, sitting in their palaces far from the carnage. Innocent Gazans get sacrificed again. The world gets angrier at Israel. Chaos. Putin is pleased.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

19. Nailed it.

[yardwork]

21. Can't say it enough.

[Irish_Dem]

23. Yes Putin and Hamas got what they wanted. Trump installed into office.

They successfully divided liberals before the election.

[Happy Hoosier]

24. Mixed bag....

They did not get the massive regional war they wanted. They thought that would end Israel.

But they did manage to get lots of onflate any support for a State of Israel with support for aggressive territorial expansion by Netanyahu.

[BlueTsunami2018]

25. I think the people who put them up to it certainly did.

Hamas was used. Not that they wouldn’t happily slaughter Jews whenever possible but this particular incident was coordinated by outside sources, most likely Russia via Iran.

Look at who benefitted the most from this. Тяцмр, which ultimately means Putin. Their propaganda machine is the best that there is. Just look at how they’ve gotten everything they’ve wanted in the past ten years or so. Brexit, Piss Wig I, The West divided over Israel and in some cases abandoning them, a bunch of dopes over here blaming President Biden and effectively killing the Democrats’ electoral chances which leads us to Piss Wig II.

Objectively, you have to give them their props. They know how to manipulate people on a mass scale and get them to dance to whatever tune they play.

[Takket]

26. almost

death and destruction are their only goals and they were willing to use the innocent people of Gaza as sacrificial lambs to spark a regional conflict to draw in groups/countries regionally to destroy Israel. The almost worked, the conflict to did regional, but still failed to destroy Israel. And the recent fall of Assad and Russia's military failures (i.e. they are too bust with Ukraine to help terrorists in the middle east at the moment) have pretty much guaranteed Israel is not going anywhere.

[Autumn]

28. I would say Hamas and Netanyahu got exactly what they wanted.

[mdmc]

32. imho, oh yes

There is no doubt that they got what they wanted.

Well,
they got what they could get, which was a beating. They wanted victory, but in that result they were lacking..

[Trenzalore]

36. Iran is weaker, Assad fell, and Hezbollah was neutralized

Overall at this moment all of their allies are in disarray.

Absent some college kids acting up on some campuses US support and weapons are secure.

So no, they did not get what they wanted.

[Dem4life1234]

37. They are stupid

[ForgedCrank]

44. Yes, they

got exactly what they wanted.
They got to brutally murder some Jews, and the primary goal of propaganda was achieved. Now, half of the planet is screeching about "genocide" and blaming Israel for defending themselves against that never-ending plague. But that half of the planet would be happy with any excuse to hate Israel or Jews in general.