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B.See

(5,023 posts)
Wed Jan 8, 2025, 11:41 PM Jan 8

Historian Reveals How Hitler 'Dismantled' Democracy in Less Than Two Months

Historian reveals how Hitler 'dismantled' democracy in less than two months - Alternet

After Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler was appointed chancellor in 1933, he promptly packed the government full of loyalists and used Weimar Germany's constitution to turn himself into an absolute dictator.

In a Wednesday essay for the Atlantic, historian Timothy W. Ryback, who is the director of the Institute for Historical Justice and Reconciliation in The Hague, described the process in which Hitler rapidly disintegrated Germany's constitutional republic in just 53 days. Ryback noted that after the failed Beer Hall Putsch — in which the Nazi leader attempted to violently overthrow the government — Hitler abandoned his goal of violent revolution in favor of "destroying the country's democratic system" through legal means.

After his election in 1933, Hitler bragged that the German electorate welcomed him with "jubilation," and rolled out a plan to force out longtime career civil servants with political stooges committed to his vision. He then executed a plan to get two-thirds of the Reichstag (the German parliamentary body) to pass an "empowering law" that would allow him to centralize his authority and govern by decree.

Hitler was convinced that he needed the empowering law to follow through on his campaign promises, which, according to Ryback, included calls to "revive the economy, reduce unemployment, increase military spending, withdraw from international treaty obligations, purge the country of foreigners he claimed were “poisoning” the blood of the nation and exact revenge on political opponents." He also notably ran on draining den parlamentarischen Sumpf, or "the parliamentarian swamp," and his economic agenda including sweeping new tariffs on grain imports.

SOUNDS FAMILIAR??
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Historian Reveals How Hitler 'Dismantled' Democracy in Less Than Two Months (Original Post) B.See Jan 8 OP
We have become the Nazis. Irish_Dem Jan 8 #1
Indeed.... B.See Jan 8 #2
Damn sure not all of us. Just the MAGAts n/t rasputin1952 Jan 9 #7
Philosophical debate. Irish_Dem Jan 9 #22
Interesting question... rasputin1952 Jan 9 #23
Chilling and similar to current events. Irish_Dem Jan 9 #24
Now it's up to "Good Americans" to quash the beast. n/t rasputin1952 Jan 9 #28
Of course in fascist regimes, it is very hard to fight back. Irish_Dem Jan 9 #35
True, but what is the alternative... rasputin1952 Jan 9 #37
The GOP brought 10s of thousands of Nazi families here in 1953 IbogaProject Jan 9 #18
Prescott Bush worked for a prominent Democrat Kaleva Jan 9 #34
he was a GOP senator later IbogaProject Jan 9 #40
W. Averell Harriman remained a Democrat Kaleva Jan 9 #42
Their firm still funded Hitler IbogaProject Jan 9 #46
W. Averell Harriman Kaleva Jan 10 #49
Yep, the GOP finally achieved their long time goals. Irish_Dem Jan 10 #60
True TxGuitar Jan 10 #55
They have. Not us. ZonkerHarris Jan 10 #58
Didn't we consider the good Germans to be nazis in WWII? Irish_Dem Jan 10 #59
Yes, it does sound familiar. sheshe2 Jan 8 #3
he didn't cement his control over ALL of German institutions lapfog_1 Jan 8 #4
Fine with the gays -- until he wasn't. TommyT139 Jan 10 #52
K&R UTUSN Jan 8 #5
As an avid History buff... rasputin1952 Jan 9 #6
Was thinking earlier today KS Toronado Jan 9 #19
Pretty damn close or... MadameButterfly Jan 9 #20
Gently disagree that "he's clearly studied" the playbook. "He" went bankrupt six times -- at least allegorical oracle Jan 9 #39
His main tutor is Putin MadameButterfly Jan 10 #51
I disagree Kaleva Jan 9 #38
"It was Hindenburg who appointed Hitler to be Chancellor." rasputin1952 Jan 9 #41
How is that close to what's happening today? Kaleva Jan 9 #43
It wrapped up the package neatly... rasputin1952 Jan 9 #44
I wonder if history would have been different had Hindenburg been younger Kaleva Jan 10 #50
Agreed... rasputin1952 Jan 10 #53
Rec'd! Kaleva Jan 10 #57
Rewatching SCHINDLER'S LIST on Netflix. ProudMNDemocrat Jan 9 #8
K&R spanone Jan 9 #9
Only thing missing in the modern version is the weird little mustache. calimary Jan 9 #10
I think a 4-way combover, orange face paint, girdle, shoe lifts, and fecal incontinence from his bad habits are diane in sf Jan 9 #11
With all the money he supposedly has, you'd think he'd hire a makeup artist calimary Jan 9 #16
Sad, he looks in a mirror and thinks he looks wonderful. Irish_Dem Jan 9 #25
Let's keep in mind how it ended, as well. Grokenstein Jan 9 #12
It took a coalition of allies to eventually ... Whiskeytide Jan 9 #36
Nonsense. Trump will not put Jared Kushner in an oven. dalton99a Jan 9 #13
How Hitler Dismantled a Democracy in 53 Days dalton99a Jan 9 #14
Gdel's Loophole CrispyQ Jan 9 #29
Trump's not waiting 53 days Diraven Jan 9 #15
He's currently busy packing the government full of loyalists KS Toronado Jan 9 #17
Less than two months? LudwigPastorius Jan 9 #21
Shitler has been working on that Historic NY Jan 9 #26
And as a result................... Lovie777 Jan 9 #27
Corrupt Supreme Court? Check. Kid Berwyn Jan 9 #30
This is no coincidence Johnny2X2X Jan 9 #31
Hitler wasn't elected in 1933 as the article in the OP claims Kaleva Jan 9 #32
Sumpf rhymes with Drumpf Kid Berwyn Jan 9 #33
This should be utmost on the mind of every American. kentuck Jan 9 #45
March and April looks like a shitshow for US Clouds Passing Jan 9 #47
Now it's more clear why Trump had "Mein Kampf" by his bedside. n/t elocs Jan 9 #48
I takes longer here because our institutions are more deeply embedded than theirs were... Wounded Bear Jan 10 #54
Exactly. And the way a surprising B.See Jan 10 #56

Irish_Dem

(67,281 posts)
22. Philosophical debate.
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 07:46 AM
Jan 9

If good Germans let Hitler come to power, were they really good Germans?

rasputin1952

(83,497 posts)
23. Interesting question...
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 12:08 PM
Jan 9

Initially, after Hitler grasped the reins of power, he had most of the nation working, and inflation dropped.
A loaf of bread didn't cost 10,000 DM. He also played up the the reality that Germany would (could) not pay reparations (particularly to France, especially Clemenceau) really blew it at Versailles.

There were "good Germans." There is a somewhat famous film clip taken by the husband of a woman who was looking at the windows of a Jewish-owned store. When she attempted to enter, a Brown-Shirt "guard" prevented her from entering. She tried to go around him, they had some brief words, and then she left. The entire episode was filmed so that people could see what was on the horizon.

Germans went back to work, essentially building up war stock, the Autobahn, and factories. Without being taxed to death for war reparations, the middle class expanded quickly.

Most of the disabled were seen as "worthless, albeit that took a little time, but they were essentially disposed of. Hidden, then killed, the lame, the insane, and others that didn't "fit the mold" were euthanized. The "enemy" in plain sight was the Jew. Germany lost a huge number of highly skilled and a good portion of the intellectual community when those who could afford it fled. Some, (those on the SS St. Louis are a prime example) were turned away, only to return to Germany and eventually killed.

By that time, fear was the dominant factor. Neighbors turned against each other in a vain attempt to keep the Gestapo at bay. That did not work out so well for most of them.

In September of 1939, Germany invaded Poland. From there on in, if you spoke ill of any action Germany took, you became a target, with the threats directly aimed at your family if you spoke out, and quite a few did, but far more went along with the action. Communists and Jews, Roma, and Slavs, all became targets, and what was left of "Good Germans" went underground.

After the war, those that had survived (not Nazis) began to rebuild the nation, with a lot of help under the Marshal Plan. The West Germans prospered, the East Germans fled until the barriers went up to confine them.



Irish_Dem

(67,281 posts)
35. Of course in fascist regimes, it is very hard to fight back.
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:23 PM
Jan 9

The punishments can be draconian.

rasputin1952

(83,497 posts)
37. True, but what is the alternative...
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:56 PM
Jan 9

Subservience?

Not while I'm still around. W

We don't have to be violent. We need to stand together and face down the ludicrous notion of being "obedient" to
a regime that should never exist in this nation.

I don't see a Civil War on the horizon, but I see a huge group of people who will refuse to give in to T****'s power grab.

IbogaProject

(4,195 posts)
18. The GOP brought 10s of thousands of Nazi families here in 1953
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:49 AM
Jan 9

To rebuild their party. And Grandpa Bush funded Hitler. Just a full circle now.

Kaleva

(39,107 posts)
49. W. Averell Harriman
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 02:07 AM
Jan 10

"The son of the railroad magnate Edward Henry Harriman, he began his employment with the Union Pacific Railroad Company in 1915; he served as chairman of the board in 1932–46. During this period he was affiliated with the investment bank Brown Brothers Harriman and helped establish the Union Banking Corporation (UBC), both of which were enmeshed with the financial interests of German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, who helped fund the rise of the Nazi Party. Despite the release of documents in the early 21st century that confirmed that UBC’s holdings were vested by the U.S. government in 1942, the nature of Harriman’s involvement with prewar and early wartime German business enterprises remained the subject of conjecture."

https://www.britannica.com/biography/W-Averell-Harriman

TxGuitar

(4,302 posts)
55. True
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 05:09 PM
Jan 10

“Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.

That word is "Nazi." Nobody cares about their motives anymore."

Irish_Dem

(67,281 posts)
59. Didn't we consider the good Germans to be nazis in WWII?
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 06:32 PM
Jan 10

All Germans were considered our enemies.

lapfog_1

(30,750 posts)
4. he didn't cement his control over ALL of German institutions
Wed Jan 8, 2025, 11:55 PM
Jan 8

especially the German Armed forces until June 30, 1934.

This was the night of long knives when he killed Ernst Rohm and the entire leadership of the "Brown Shirts" ( the true believers in the Nazi / MAGA goals ).

That was the deal he made with the German Army leadership to ensure their loyalty and cooperation ( they no longer worried that he would replace the leadership of the Army with the Brown Shirts - who were looked at as kooks and idiots ). Something that the militias that are Trumps "kooks and idiots" should be aware of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

rasputin1952

(83,497 posts)
6. As an avid History buff...
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 12:05 AM
Jan 9

(I am not a Historian) the parallels are pretty damn close.

First, take over the media, back then it was radio and print.
Create an enemy within.
Repeat the lie until it becomes "truth".
Intimidate those who are not on board.
Have the elected officials capitulate.
Take grasp of the Executive and become the "one who knows how to fix everything".

It's a simple plan, and simple minds will follow it. No need to think, 'The Leader" will do that for you.

I am ashamed that this is coming about in our country. As with former assholes, this will come crashing down.
It is far better that it never gets into anything that appears to be mainstream. Delusional people fall for this shit.

DU'ers are not delusional. We will take this on to preserve our Republic.
I'll be with you on the streets.

Dissent is Patriotic!



KS Toronado

(21,011 posts)
19. Was thinking earlier today
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:58 AM
Jan 9

We as a party should flood Washington DC with our "14th AMENDMENT" signs, circle the Capitol
building, the SCOTUS, and the White House. Let's get our elected officials attention that no one is
supposed to be above the law and we don't want to see this great Country destroyed.

MadameButterfly

(2,736 posts)
20. Pretty damn close or...
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 02:18 AM
Jan 9

It's not just what dictators do. He's clearly studied Hitler's playbook. There can't be that many coincicences. Hitler actually said "Drain the swamp."

allegorical oracle

(4,469 posts)
39. Gently disagree that "he's clearly studied" the playbook. "He" went bankrupt six times -- at least
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 02:09 PM
Jan 9

twice with gambling casinos, where the house always wins. And we know he doesn't read. Someone has to coif his hair in the mornings.

He's had help figuring out this fascist gambit -- Bannon, Musk and others, perhaps the Heritage crowd, have slipped a collar and leash on him and are leading him where he's going.

MadameButterfly

(2,736 posts)
51. His main tutor is Putin
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 02:34 AM
Jan 10

who has definitely studied Hitler and associates.

I'm not suggesting that he has immersed himself in whole books or has an understanding of anything deeply. He picks what he wants about Hitler, missing the part about Hitler's generals trying to assassinate him.

Mostly he is concerned with shower heads, acquiring property, and revenge.

Kaleva

(39,107 posts)
38. I disagree
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:58 PM
Jan 9

It was Hindenburg who defeated Hitler in a landslide in the 1932 presidential election

It was Hindenburg who appointed Hitler to be Chancellor.

It was Hindenburg who issued the Reichstag Fire Decree.

It was Hindenburg who signed into law the Enabling Act.

We don't have anything close to that

rasputin1952

(83,497 posts)
44. It wrapped up the package neatly...
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 06:54 PM
Jan 9

President Hindenburg died at the age of 87 on 2 August 1934. Shortly after Hindenburg's death, Hitler announced that offices of the chancellor and the president were to be combined to create one position, the Führer and chancellor. Hitler announced that he would occupy this new role.

Hitler knew Hindenburg would die soon, thereby opening the door for an authoritarian regime.

If Congress shows its usual lack of a spine and a SCOTUS that gives almost "unlimited" power to a sitting president, there is little that
would keep T**** from walking through the door and doing all kinds of mayhem.

Theoretically, while different forms of government, there are numerous possibilities that can come from the situation we are facing.

Some GOP members of Congresscritters are showing a couple of vertebrae, the question is, will they stick to principles, or abscond their
duty?
These clowns can't get past a Budget Resolution.

Kaleva

(39,107 posts)
50. I wonder if history would have been different had Hindenburg been younger
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 02:12 AM
Jan 10

Hindenburg was popular with the German masses as shown by his landslide victory over Hitler in 1932 and possibly more importantly, Hindenburg had the full backing of the German Army.

Hindenburg could have crushed Hitler and the Nazi Party .

rasputin1952

(83,497 posts)
53. Agreed...
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 11:47 AM
Jan 10

But we'll never really know Hindenburg's motives.

Considering his age, relative dislike for Hitler, and Hitler's ability to appear humble at times (particularly when facing power in his earlier life), he may have (and Hindenburg's advisors) seen it as a way to placate the people. Not understanding what Hitler could do in the near future, could have played a part as well.

History is riddled with "exceptions to the norm)" that are difficult to explain. Hindenburg was exceptionally popular, and a decent leader, he may well have been trying to placate the radicals to some degree (shrug).

The odd part to me is that he had to know he was not going to live long, did he, or those around him, foresee that Hitler would combine the two offices and become a dictator?

We have a president-elect who actually stated he wanted to be a dictator. I would never, in my life, believe anyone who made such a statement would be a viable candidate for the highest office in the land. Yet (however we got here) danger is in the doorway.

I don't think that T**** is going to make it through this term, but I've been proven wrong, so I'm not going to count on that. As of the results of the election, I'm focusing on 2026, getting involved with changing the change to Congress to thwart whatever this moron plans for the nation.
There is no Teddy Roosevelt in the wings, it is imperative that we do not sacrifice our democracy to the whims of MAGAts.

History echoes, it does not repeat itself, but it seems as though it can. Two different governments at two distinctly different times are not capable of repeating things of the past. They can get petty close though, and therein lies a serious dilemma.
A compliant SCOTUS is the true danger.

diane in sf

(4,148 posts)
11. I think a 4-way combover, orange face paint, girdle, shoe lifts, and fecal incontinence from his bad habits are
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 12:48 AM
Jan 9

a pretty good helping of weird. Makes the little mustache seem almost normal.

calimary

(85,694 posts)
16. With all the money he supposedly has, you'd think he'd hire a makeup artist
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:12 AM
Jan 9

who’d accompany him everywhere for every occasion or event.

SHEESH - talk about “tan lines”? You can see where the pancake makeup ends and his bare ghostly white skin begins. It’s not supposed to work that way - or LOOK that way!

Grokenstein

(5,946 posts)
12. Let's keep in mind how it ended, as well.
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 12:51 AM
Jan 9

If we can learn from the past, maybe we can skip through to the good part.

Whiskeytide

(4,535 posts)
36. It took a coalition of allies to eventually ...
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:32 PM
Jan 9

… exploit Hitler’s numerous mistakes and turn back his fascist agenda with military might. These assholes are likely to try and avoid Germany’s mistakes in the run up to the war, and I don’t really see anyone who can go up against an axis of the US, China and Russia (militarily or economically). Most countries will likely capitulate without firing a shot.

dalton99a

(87,792 posts)
14. How Hitler Dismantled a Democracy in 53 Days
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:05 AM
Jan 9
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/01/hitler-germany-constitution-authoritarianism/681233/

How Hitler Dismantled a Democracy in 53 Days
He used the constitution to shatter the constitution.
By Timothy W. Ryback
January 8, 2025, 8:30 AM ET

Ninety-two years ago this month, on Monday morning, January 30, 1933, Adolf Hitler was appointed the 15th chancellor of the Weimar Republic. In one of the most astonishing political transformations in the history of democracy, Hitler set about destroying a constitutional republic through constitutional means. What follows is a step-by-step account of how Hitler systematically disabled and then dismantled his country’s democratic structures and processes in less than two months’ time — specifically, one month, three weeks, two days, eight hours, and 40 minutes. The minutes, as we will see, mattered.

Hans Frank served as Hitler’s private attorney and chief legal strategist in the early years of the Nazi movement. While later awaiting execution at Nuremberg for his complicity in Nazi atrocities, Frank commented on his client’s uncanny capacity for sensing “the potential weakness inherent in every formal form of law” and then ruthlessly exploiting that weakness. Following his failed Beer Hall Putsch of November 1923, Hitler had renounced trying to overthrow the Weimar Republic by violent means but not his commitment to destroying the country’s democratic system, a determination he reiterated in a Legalitätseid — “legality oath” — before the Constitutional Court in September 1930. Invoking Article 1 of the Weimar constitution, which stated that the government was an expression of the will of the people, Hitler informed the court that once he had achieved power through legal means, he intended to mold the government as he saw fit. It was an astonishingly brazen statement.

“So, through constitutional means?” the presiding judge asked.

“Jawohl!” Hitler replied.

By January 1933, the fallibilities of the Weimar Republic — whose 181-article constitution framed the structures and processes for its 18 federated states — were as obvious as they were abundant. Having spent a decade in opposition politics, Hitler knew firsthand how easily an ambitious political agenda could be scuttled. He had been co-opting or crushing right-wing competitors and paralyzing legislative processes for years, and for the previous eight months, he had played obstructionist politics, helping to bring down three chancellors and twice forcing the president to dissolve the Reichstag and call for new elections.

...

CrispyQ

(39,375 posts)
29. Gdel's Loophole
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 12:28 PM
Jan 9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel%27s_Loophole

snip...

Gödel's Loophole is a supposed "inner contradiction" in the Constitution of the United States which Austrian-American logician, mathematician, and analytic philosopher Kurt Gödel postulated in 1947. The loophole would permit the American democracy to be legally turned into a dictatorship. Gödel told his friend Oskar Morgenstern about the existence of the flaw and Morgenstern told Albert Einstein about it at the time, but Morgenstern, in his recollection of the incident in 1971, never mentioned the exact problem as Gödel saw it. This has led to speculation about the precise nature of what has come to be called "Gödel's Loophole." It has been called "one of the great unsolved problems of constitutional law" by F. E. Guerra-Pujol.[1]


More at link.

Diraven

(1,336 posts)
15. Trump's not waiting 53 days
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:06 AM
Jan 9

Not even waiting until he's in office before completely abandoning the policies he was elected on and instead saying we need to go to war to conquer basically all of North America.

Kid Berwyn

(19,740 posts)
30. Corrupt Supreme Court? Check.
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 12:32 PM
Jan 9

Corrupt Congress? Check.

Corrupt Executive? As of EOB January 20, Check.

Now, let’s stop them.

The Constitution, Freedom and History are counting on us.



And we owe it to them — all who came before us to do the same.

Johnny2X2X

(22,647 posts)
31. This is no coincidence
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 12:37 PM
Jan 9

Godwin's law does not apply here. Why? because Trump, and several people around him all along, are literal admirers of Nazism. Not the type that say, "Oh, well, he did do some good things." But the type that say, "I have studied their methods in detail and our entire movement follows the Nazi pplan to seize power."

Trumpism is very puprosely modeled after Nazism. You've got Trump speech writers admitting they studied Joseph Goebbels and use his teachings about propaganda while writing Trump's speeches. Nearly every aspect of Trumpism is purpoisely borrowed from Nazism.

Now I am not sure that genocide is their ultimate goal, but absolute Hitler like power surely is.

Kaleva

(39,107 posts)
32. Hitler wasn't elected in 1933 as the article in the OP claims
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 01:01 PM
Jan 9

He was appointed Chancellor by then President Hindenburg.

In the 1932 presidential election, Hindenburg had crushed Hitler.

It was Hindenburg who issued the Reichstag Fire Decree and signed into law the Enabling Act.

It's often overlooked the key role Hindenburg played in Hitler's take over of the German government.

kentuck

(113,407 posts)
45. This should be utmost on the mind of every American.
Thu Jan 9, 2025, 07:23 PM
Jan 9

Don't say, "It couldn't happen here."

Wounded Bear

(61,665 posts)
54. I takes longer here because our institutions are more deeply embedded than theirs were...
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 11:50 AM
Jan 10

The Weimar Republic was Germany's first stab at democracy and it was fragile, as all democracies are - especially in the early years.

It takes longer here, but it can be and is being done.

B.See

(5,023 posts)
56. Exactly. And the way a surprising
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 05:37 PM
Jan 10

number of (sometimes unlikely) politicians and people are going belly up and kissing the ring, maybe not as long as one would think.

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