Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

WhiskeyGrinder

(26,206 posts)
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 08:48 AM 13 hrs ago

Medical Examiners Warn That Controversial Lung Float Test Could Be Dangerous

https://www.propublica.org/article/lung-float-test-stillbirth-pregnancy-medical-examiners

The nation’s largest organization for medical examiners has issued a warning about a controversial, centuries-old forensic test that has contributed to cases in which pregnant women have been charged with murder.

The premise behind the lung float test is simple: If a baby was born alive and then died, air from its first breaths would cause its lungs to float in a jar with water. If the baby was stillborn, the lack of air in the lungs would cause them to sink. But the many critics of the test have long labeled it junk science and drawn parallels between the test and witch trials, where women were deemed witches based on whether they floated or sank.

The National Association of Medical Examiners addressed the lung float test as part of a larger position paper released in October on investigating perinatal deaths, including stillbirths. A panel of 11 experts said the test has “known pitfalls” and is of “questionable value” and “without clearly defined error rates.”

“Those who use the lung float should be wary of accepting the results when it conforms to their summation of the findings and rejecting the result if it conflicts; a ‘test’ used in such fashion inevitably becomes more dangerous than useful,” the authors wrote.

The paper follows a 2023 investigation by ProPublica into the use of the lung float test in cases where women were charged with murder despite their claims that they had a stillbirth. ProPublica found that the test was deeply flawed, lacked the basic standardization of trusted forensic disciplines and did not have full support from any of the country’s 12 largest medical examiners’ offices.

The test is typically used where someone gives birth outside of a hospital or without medical supervision. But the paper cautioned that the distinction between a liveborn and stillborn infant can be very difficult to discern. Other than food in the stomach, the authors wrote, there is no diagnostic tool or finding that can “stand alone as the sole determinant of whether an infant was liveborn or stillborn.”
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Medical Examiners Warn That Controversial Lung Float Test Could Be Dangerous (Original Post) WhiskeyGrinder 13 hrs ago OP
Right-wing conspiracists trying to find another way to punish women. Lonestarblue 13 hrs ago #1
What do you mean? RFK will embrace what idea? WhiskeyGrinder 13 hrs ago #2
Your post silly! mountain grammy 12 hrs ago #3
It's not medicine; it's forensic science, which is why I'm confused about bringing RFK Jr. into it. WhiskeyGrinder 12 hrs ago #4
I feel like the purpose of your post mountain grammy 11 hrs ago #6
. WhiskeyGrinder 11 hrs ago #7
It sounds like junk science mountain grammy 9 hrs ago #12
What would be a nonconfrontational way to say, "What do you mean?" WhiskeyGrinder 9 hrs ago #13
If it's based on bad science RFK Jr probably would support it. And Dr freakin Oz. BradBo 12 hrs ago #5
Interesting. I've never heard of this. Charging a woman with infanticide on the basis of a test like this is absurd. Martin68 10 hrs ago #8
Interesting. I've never heard of this. Charging a woman with infanticide on the basis of a test like this is absurd. Martin68 10 hrs ago #9
K&R Solly Mack 10 hrs ago #10
Having different members of my family go through Zackzzzz 10 hrs ago #11

Lonestarblue

(13,202 posts)
1. Right-wing conspiracists trying to find another way to punish women.
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 09:16 AM
13 hrs ago

I’m sure RFK will embrace thus idea.

mountain grammy

(28,649 posts)
3. Your post silly!
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 09:31 AM
12 hrs ago

I'm sure many of us thought the same thing as we read it.. sounds like RFK Jr.'s kind of "medicine"

If you don't want comments, why post?

WhiskeyGrinder

(26,206 posts)
4. It's not medicine; it's forensic science, which is why I'm confused about bringing RFK Jr. into it.
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 09:36 AM
12 hrs ago

mountain grammy

(28,649 posts)
6. I feel like the purpose of your post
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 11:05 AM
11 hrs ago

Is to show us how bad things were in the olden days when stupid shit ruled.
Whether it’s medicine or forensic science, we have to understand that stupid shit is once again making a comeback.
You shouldn’t be confused about this if you’ve read anything about RFK Junior or Oz or any of those people running HHS. Are you sure they don’t have a forensic science department?

WhiskeyGrinder

(26,206 posts)
7. .
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 11:08 AM
11 hrs ago
I feel like the purpose of your post Is to show us how bad things were in the olden days when stupid shit ruled.
I posted it because it's a well-reported news article about a development used in criminal cases, illustrating how our understanding of crime evidence -- and thus "crime" itself -- changes.

mountain grammy

(28,649 posts)
12. It sounds like junk science
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 12:28 PM
9 hrs ago

which is why we immediately think of RFK Jr and Oz..

Your reply to the post about that seemed a little rude and confrontational for no reason..

Martin68

(26,984 posts)
8. Interesting. I've never heard of this. Charging a woman with infanticide on the basis of a test like this is absurd.
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 11:45 AM
10 hrs ago

ABrings to mind the great Monty Python sketch on how to identify a witch.

Martin68

(26,984 posts)
9. Interesting. I've never heard of this. Charging a woman with infanticide on the basis of a test like this is absurd.
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 11:45 AM
10 hrs ago

Brings to mind the great Monty Python sketch on how to identify a witch.

Zackzzzz

(253 posts)
11. Having different members of my family go through
Mon Dec 29, 2025, 12:15 PM
10 hrs ago

death in child birth, still birth and sudden death syndrome
I think this lung float test idea isn't simple, it's beyond junk science,
It's just, "Crazy Talk". It makes no sense.
It's 2025, and this is what.........


Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Medical Examiners Warn Th...