Michael Moore says he wants to pour 'gasoline' on anger at health insurance companies after CEO shooting

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: The Independent

Friday 13 December 2024 22:29 GMT


Social critic and documentary filmmaker Michael Moore said in a Substack post that he wants to "pour gasoline" on the anger Americans have expressed against the nation's health insurance industry.

Moore wrote Friday that fury directed at the US health insurance industry was "1000 percent justified." Following the fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan last week, some Americans have taken to social media and other outlets to express their frustration with the state of private health insurance in the nation.

Moore — whose documentaries include criticisms of the US war on terror, gun violence, and health care, among other topics — was mentioned by name in the manifesto of Luigi Mangione, the man police believe killed Thompson. Mangione allegedly described Moore as someone who "illuminated the corruption and greed" in the health care industry in his 2007 film Sicko. “It’s not often that my work gets a killer five-star review from an actual killer,” Moore wrote in his Substack piece.

He noted that he had been receiving media requests, including some that were essentially asking him to "condemn murder." “Do I condemn murder? That’s an odd question. In Fahrenheit 9/11, I condemned the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi people and the senseless murder of our own American soldiers at the hands of our American government,” Moore wrote.

Read more: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michael-moore-anger-health-insurance-shooting-b2664233.html

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Came out almost 20 years ago and I remember getting the DVD.

[Walleye]

1. Hot burning anger doesn't really solve these problems. It may help to make a start, but that's it.

[Skittles]

4. doesn't solve the problems

but certainly calls attention to the issues.....

that it took a gun humping psycho killer to get that attention is pretty fucking disturbing but hey, that's America

[Walleye]

5. Well, I hope it works. But I'm not sure this calling attention to an issue actually helps anymore.

There is so much gaslighting and sadistic cruelty going on

[Evolve Dammit]

30. Not by Dems. Some of us are just sick of it. Eventually you get pissed enough to do "good trouble." n/t

[Skittles]

51. what do you mean by "good trouble"?

shooting someone in the back?

[Evolve Dammit]

52. Shame on you for suggesting.

[Skittles]

53. I think that could be MY response

yup

over and out

[Evolve Dammit]

54. Perhaps you never heard of John Lewis. Just wow. All done "Skittles."

[LeftInTX]

2. Ugh...Every credible person needs to "divorce" themselves from this Luigi guy.

Anger at healthcare and the acts of Luigi are not the same thing. Full Stop.

No! He's not Jesus or any saint. How can a murderer be the patron saint for health? This guy is just a plain old criminal.

Be mad about health and stop hero worshiping this guy.


Stop empathizing with him. The guy spent like nine months traveling in Asia this year. Off the grid in Thailand and Japan. He's not mad about healthcare. He just wants attention.

[BumRushDaShow]

3. I only think a small subset of young people and "social media/tabloid entertainment media" are fixating on the guy

The bigger issue is that he became a catalyst for what has been simmering for decades.

As noted, Moore came out with "Sicko" back in 2007 (when that guy was only 9 years old) and at the time, it was a result of stuff coming to a head that eventually lead to calls for reform - notably the "pre-existing conditions" gotcha, as well as demands for "Medicare for All" and/or some kind of publicly-run health system, which lead to passage of the PP-ACA a few years later.

[sop]

34. The issue of unaffordable healthcare insurance helped Obama get elected in 2008.

Passing the ACA helped, but it wasn't enough. Republicans have been trying to abolish Obamacare since it became law, just as they've been trying to undo New Deal and Great Society programs for decades. The battle never ends.

[BumRushDaShow]

35. Well the GOP helped to encourage Democrats to run away from Obama beecause of the ACA

and from the (D) perspective, it was due to it not being a "Medicare for All" system, let alone didn't have a "Public Option" (all thanks to Max Baucus).

And so we were wiped out in 2010 (also thanks to Citizen's United), losing something like a net 63 seats in the House and 6 seats in the Senate. Up until then, we actually had the closest to a "super-majority" of seats - notably having 60 seats in the Senate, enough to invoke cloture without the GOP.

[LeftInTX]

41. I liked his first documentary about Flint. Then I tried watching "Bowling for Columbine"...let's just say my teenager

liked it...
I felt Bowling for Columbine was "all over the place". (I think it was Bowling for Columbine)

It started out with Columbine, then it took a turn on the defense industry, missiles and rockets etc. It went off topic. I couldn't finish it.

But my kid liked it....And I felt like it really appealed to a younger audience. I also felt like it appealed to someone who was more a "newcomer" to politics.

Didn't watch Fahrenheit 9/11 or Sicko, because well I could learn better stuff from PBS Frontline.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. I had "Bowling for Columbine" on DVR for a long time

but never got to it before I swapped out for a new DVR. I did buy/watch "Fahrenheit 9/11", and "Sicko" and I saw "Capitalism: A Love Story" (forgot where I saw it - either cable or maybe Amazon Prime).

[Stargazer99]

8. You can kill the body and the soul of a person with abuse-I call it soul murder

This young man right or wrong is expressing the anger at greed and greed kills. And where were you that criticize this young man when this greed was set up to legally kill others? You sure didn't try to stop it so I see it as being an accomplice in the killing of others even if you did not do it with an instrument. It is called responsibility and morality which swings BOTH ways.
Private equity has purchased 3 hospitals for low income citizens loaded it up with debt and then sold them for a profit. Capitalism is not sacred and some times is down right evil. But those who benefit from it are blind to its nature and this is what happens.

[COL Mustard]

15. People are justified at being angry at the system.

People are not justified in taking the law into their own hands. You are 1000% correct. Thank you.

[The Grand Illuminist]

21. Unless people feel all hope is lost

And this is all they got.

[LeftInTX]

44. I don't believe Luigi felt all hope was lost due to health insurance. Neither he nor his family have ever been customers

of United Health. He never complained about his health insurance coverage. He had money. He was "underemployed" and was traveling in Asia in the months before he came back and killed the CEO. His family could not locate him and his mom contacted the SF police in November and filed a missing person's report. Shortly before this, she contacted his employer and found out the office where he worked had been closed.

Did he kill to "send a message"? Of course, but I don't believe he did it because "all hope was lost" in the sense that you are describing.

[Evolve Dammit]

32. Using Drumpf's criming record, I'd say breaking the law(s) appears to be Okey Dokey now. Magats know it.

[COL Mustard]

36. Sorry , but...

I don't want to be like them, and I suspect that you don't either.

[Evolve Dammit]

47. course not. I'm just saying the last 9 years have sent a message loud and clear. It's OK to break the law. FCS,

he talks all the time about the adored Al Capone, Hannibel Lechter, etc.
Where's my Roy Cohn??? Well he sure as hell found them in SCOTUS. And he is immune for anything he deems "official." Wow.

[Cirsium]

24. Not on this thread

BumRushDaShow and Moore are not hero worshiping not empathizing with the killer.

Talking about the killer at all is a distraction from the big issue, whether it is hero worshiping or pearl clutching, and there has been more pearl clutching here than there has been hero worshiping, by far.

[cab67]

29. Same thing happens with serial killers.

They often get lots of fan mail once they're locked up.

[LeftInTX]

39. Yes. There's a mystique.

[RecoveringJournalist]

6. Gasoline Indeed

For those saying to disassocite with Luigi and condemn what he did, let me ask you something. The rage has been there for YEARS. Countless people dying due to the insurance companies' barbaric practices has been going on for YEARS. But tell me, when did this reality get the attention it deserves before now? Serious question.

I was in the media for years and I know that "if it bleeds, it leads." The media always goes with things that will drive viewership, readers, listeners to pay attention. That's how they earn money, plain and simple.

Something like this was NECESSARY to get people, including people at the top, the decision makers, to start talking. Greed exceeds compassion. But life and death exceeds greed.

I can't make this any more simple to understand.

[Stargazer99]

9. Thank you for an intellgent and rational set of thoughts

[Hotler]

7. Remember when A black man became president and 100yrs. of anger was unleashed? nt

[Bengus81]

10. Those MAGA morons can spew their feigned anger over this....

But they or someone they know has no doubt been a victim of the practices of the Health Insurance Industrial Complex.

It will be the same when they cheer the end of the ACA,Social Security,Medicare, etc...etc.

[uncledad]

11. Michael Moore just wants to be relevent

[HUAJIAO]

17. That is absolutely not true. My sister and brother-in-law know him and are also both from Flint,

[Autumn]

19. Michael Moore is relevant, except in small closed circles.

[Cirsium]

25. He is a neighbor

You are wrong about him.

He premiered Sicko in a little local theater here without any fanfare and invited farm workers for the showing. He spent the afternoon talking with everyone. That is one example of many.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

45. Cheap to say and misspell and get wrong. Welcome to DU, I think. . . . . nt

[Emile]

62. Which side are you on?

[uncledad]

63. Im not on the side of a murderer

[Emile]

65. In this case, the word murderer would be plural.

[Martin68]

12. I get it. Moore sees this as an opportunity for the American people to rise up in rebellion and force the government

to institute a non-profit single-payer health system.

[Autumn]

20. He didn't just jump in. The CEO shooter and the media brought him into the conversation.

MM is right. Americans should have a non-profit single-payer health system, even f it takes burning the for profit healthcare system down

[Cirsium]

26. Years and years

Moore has been talking about healthcare for a long time.

[Autumn]

31. Yes he has and both parties have fought tooth and nail against it the donations

they receive for their campaigns are more important. Does "M4A will never, never happen" ring a bell?

[modrepub]

13. The Only Way to "Address" This Problem

Is expose the people in power to the same treatment as the rest of us. Until we make everyone "stand in another person's shoes" they'll continue to ignore it.

[HUAJIAO]

18. So true.

[wolfie001]

14. If the stupid 49.6% of the electorate keep voting for repukes, it really doesn't amount to a pile of horseshit.......

.........what Moore does. He needs to try to get to these simple-minded, racist haters and somehow wake them up to the reality that their voting patterns have set the course of this nation. They're the sole reason Gym Jordan and the orange felon (and countless other gas-lighters) are in their respective positions of power. Is he advocating revolution? Just tear everything down?

[Cirsium]

28. So hopeless

Your point of view is so hopeless and depressing. Never mind your 49.6% a much larger percentage of the population supports overthrowing the current healthcare system. You want more votes for Democrats? Then put pressure on the Democratic party leadership to start fighting, to start delivering, and to stop the bipartisan third way nonsense, and then there won't be any openings for someone like Trump to exploit.

Are you fear mongering with "is he advocating revolution?" and "just tear everything down?" Moore has been pretty clear about just what he is advocating in regards to healthcare. Perhaps you disagree with him on the topic. In that case, why not just put together a rebuttal? What are you advocating?

[wolfie001]

56. Not fearmongering

Just saying I hate the 49.6% of the electorate who are racist assholes and that's what Moore and other wealthy liberals need to focus on. Come up with some kind of strategy to make them rethink their positions that are built on hatred. Pretty simple.

[Cirsium]

57. That was the focus

"Half of the electorate are racist assholes" was the focus.

[wolfie001]

59. Glad you agree with me

Right?

[LT Barclay]

58. I think a better target for change is those who don't vote. When Bush Jr. was president, I read that 80% of non-voters

would vote democratic if they did. But I think the dems need to show they can produce results.

[wolfie001]

60. That too!

Remember when the racist 49.6% attacked ACORN that was non-partisan? Those nasty f6cks don't want everyone participating. Just like the nat-z-ee-z in WW2. Remove whole sections of the electorate from the process and leave all the psychotic jeebuz believers that are white. This is what rich Liberals need to focus on.

[Cirsium]

61. Alienation

Most people don't see any connection between voting and their lives, including quite a few people who do actually vote, but who vote as a civic duty or as an expression of personal values, or as a expression of team loyalty as though they were cheering for their favorite athletic team. People don't know how government works and they don't know history.

[LT Barclay]

64. Maybe instead of just booths at festivals, or large rallies..

have voter engagement fairs? A chance to meet candidates, ask questions, meet with groups who support the party?

[Turbineguy]

16. It could be set up as non-profits

funded by bonds.

Where the premiums of the first the first 1500 patients don't go into the CEO's pocket.

[Beastly Boy]

22. The question for Moore is not whether he condemns murder. The question is whether he inspires murder.

And Moore admits, with a certain aura of cockiness, that he does.

The problem is, does he have control over who he is inspiring and who their targets might be? Suggesting that he does is ridiculous. The consequence of this is rather predictable: psychos with nothing but self-indulgence on their minds will be inspired by Moore to shoot up receptionists at hospitals, and Moore doesn’t seem concerned about the probability of such outcomes.

[Cirsium]

33. Inspires murder?

Moore is it inspiring murder. That is a pretty inflammatory charge. It is not as though we do not have countless examples of MAGA leaders inspiring violence for comparison.

People are not angry at receptionists at hospitals they are angry with the CEOs. The idea that by protecting management we are protecting the innocent rank and file has long been used by reactionary and anti-Labor forces to muddle the issue.

Here is the original article:

https://www.michaelmoore.com/p/a-manifesto-against-for-profit-health?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=320974&post_id=153048771

Some excerpts:

"In Fahrenheit 9/11, I condemned the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi people and the senseless murder of our own American soldiers at the hands of our American government. In Bowling for Columbine, I condemned the murder of 50,000 Americans every year at the hands of our gun industry and our politicians who do nothing to stop it. In my 35 years as a filmmaker, have I said or done anything that has implied I condone murder?"

"Here’s a sad statistic for you: In the United States, we have a whopping 1.4 million people employed with the job of DENYING HEALTH CARE, vs only 1 million doctors in the entire country! That’s all you need to know about America. We pay more people to deny care than to give it. 1 million doctors to give care, 1.4 million brutes in cubicles doing their best to stop doctors from giving that care. If the purpose of “health care” is to keep people alive, then what is the purpose of DENYING PEOPLE HEALTH CARE? Other than to kill them? I definitely condemn that kind of murder."

"Because this anger is not about the killing of a CEO. If everyone who was angry was ready to kill the CEOs, the CEOs would already be dead. That is not what this reaction is about. It is about the mass death and misery — the physical pain, the mental abuse, the medical debt, the bankruptcies in the face of denied claims and denied care and bottomless deductibles on top of ballooning premiums — that this “health care” industry has levied against the American people for decades. With no one standing in their way! Just a government — two broken parties — enabling this INDUSTRY’s theft and, yes, murder."

"Yes, I condemn murder, and that’s why I condemn America’s broken, vile, rapacious, bloodthirsty, unethical, immoral health care industry and I condemn every one of the CEOs who are in charge of it and I condemn every politician who takes their money and keeps this system going instead of tearing it up, ripping it apart, and throwing it all away. We need to replace this system with something sane, something caring and loving — something that keeps people alive."

[Beastly Boy]

38. Mangione credits Moore for inspiring him.

And Moore himself takes credit for inspiring Mangione.

From the article, quoting Moore: “It’s not often that my work gets a killer five-star review from an actual killer,” Moore wrote in his Substack piece.”

If you find it inflammatory, blame the sources. Their statements speak for themselves.

My concern is that whoever you refer to as “ people” include nutcases detached from any ideological concerns and self-centered primadonas with all sorts of chips on their shoulders, looking for an inspiration to kill whoever rubs them the wrong way. Moore has no control over who he inspires, and it is exceedingly likely that some of these “people” are the ones who would, indeed, target hospital receptionists. They couldn’t care less about who runs a company that denied them health coverage or why. They will go after the mailman who hands them a denial notice.

We’ve seen this again and again, in a multitude of different contexts, even in the face of widespread condemnations of killings in different circumstances. Imagine their sense of entitlement when their inspiration not only does not condemn a similarly motivated murder, but appears to take satisfaction in inspiring it.

[Cirsium]

40. That's it??

“It’s not often that my work gets a killer five-star review from an actual killer.”

That is so obviously tongue in cheek.

[Beastly Boy]

48. Yes that's it, in a nutshell.

What did you expect, “I gleefully take credit for inspiring a murder”?

One can be tongue in cheek and brag all at the same time. In fact, bragging about anything connecting you to a murder without being tongue in cheek would seem to be in rather bad taste by some “people”.

[Cirsium]

55. OK

Bad taste, then.

[RandomNumbers]

23. "Not a dime's worth of difference" between Bush and Gore? That guy?

Did Michael F*ing Moore ever apologize for that?

He may be correct about the US Healthcare system but he destroyed his credibility 24 years ago.

(Believe it or not, T*mp is ALSO correct about one or two things, once in a long while. But he is still the biggest POS ever to disgrace the presidential ballot. And Moore being generally correct about healthcare doesn't repay the damage he did with his influence.)

[MichMan]

27. Didn't he predict that the polls were all wrong and Harris would win in a landslide ?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219547398

[Wild blueberry]

37. Please go to the source

Moore's essay: https://www.michaelmoore.com/p/a-manifesto-against-for-profit-health

It is excellent.
You'll notice he does not condone the murder.
He does validate the fury that so many Americans feel at the parasitic grift that is our "health" insurance industry.
Also suggests we actually fix it, as nearly every other industrialized nation has.
Universal health care. Less expensive. More efficient. Compassionate.

Sicko is a great documentary and still timely.

Of course, the damned corporate media is spinning this to protect corporate wealth. Scoundrels!

[Karasu]

43. We should, even if we're obviously not getting universal health care under fucking fascism.

[TheFarseer]

46. Fine if it gets us reform

If we just let it go, we won’t get any change. They want to shut down the conversation by any means necessary. Now’s not the time to be polite unless you like medical bankruptcy and not getting the care you need.

[LiberalFighter]

49. There is no justification for CEO's and other executives receiving the extreme salaries and benefits they receive.

They don't do the work to justify it.

[Trust_Reality]

50. There is a book... Copyright 2010

"Deadly Spin - An insurance company insider speaks out on how corporate PR is killing health care and deceiving Americans."

And (no book needed), "health" insurance is a for profit, profiteering industry.

And "health care" in the US is not about health. It is a medical treatment enterprise.

Health food is "health care".