Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

pbmus

(12,444 posts)
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:12 PM Dec 16

A Constitutional Convention? Some Democrats Fear It's Coming.

Source: New York Times

Some Republicans have said that a constitutional convention is overdue. Many Democratic-led states have rescinded their long-ago calls for one, and California will soon consider whether to do the same.

As Republicans prepare to take control of Congress and the White House, among the many scenarios keeping Democrats up at night is an event that many Americans consider a historical relic: a constitutional convention.

The 1787 gathering in Philadelphia to write the Constitution was the one and only time state representatives have convened to work on the document.

But a simple line in the Constitution allows Congress to convene a rewrite session if two-thirds of state legislatures have called for one. The option has never been used, but most states have long-forgotten requests on the books that could be enough to trigger a new constitutional convention, some scholars and politicians believe.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/16/us/a-constitutional-convention-some-democrats-fear-its-coming.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare



Consolidating power
30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
A Constitutional Convention? Some Democrats Fear It's Coming. (Original Post) pbmus Dec 16 OP
Let's get started advocating for that equal rights amendment Walleye Dec 16 #1
It can be certified! shotten99 Dec 16 #8
A Constitutional Convention at this time would be against our best interest. They could strike freedom of religion, pnwmom Dec 16 #14
billionaires mtasselin Dec 17 #28
A CC cannot amend the constitution Fiendish Thingy Dec 16 #2
Which, if I correctly recall my High School Civics class, MarineCombatEngineer Dec 16 #4
Not quite. The convention replaces congress but the states still have to ratify it. Angleae Dec 16 #5
Ahh, thank you. MarineCombatEngineer Dec 16 #6
Yup. Nt Fiendish Thingy Dec 16 #10
If a convention is called, blue states should work together to use it to leave the union eallen Dec 16 #3
At this point, I would be in favor of that. I don't want or need my life to be influenced by the decisions of Karasu Dec 16 #7
Along with peaceful relocations for people who want to The Madcap Dec 16 #9
I want birthright citizenship drmeow Dec 16 #15
Make Mexico Mexico Again JoseBalow Dec 16 #19
That worked out so well the last time. William769 Dec 16 #16
An amendment to allow a state to leave the union. mwooldri Dec 16 #18
This is the 666koch666 wet dream not fooled Dec 16 #11
A Constitutional Convention Would Supercharge Project 2025 ancianita Dec 16 #12
Why I keep telling people The Grand Illuminist Dec 16 #13
The gqp resurrect this relic every few yrs as if it's just a simple process. Nothing could be further from the truth PortTack Dec 16 #17
I Count 33-34 states needed to have a CC (2/3) rpannier Dec 16 #20
In other words, not happening. n/t valleyrogue Dec 17 #30
Not unless the people of each state are the ones to choose their delegates. OldBaldy1701E Dec 16 #21
This has been the goal Blue Full Moon Dec 16 #22
I can see too many scenarios in which it happens Metaphorical Dec 16 #23
And those amendments would be extremely one sided with the Koch brothers pbmus Dec 17 #25
In some ways its not a bad idea, but people can't understand or stick with the one we have. LT Barclay Dec 16 #24
What a revolting freak show that would be. Every maggot wet dream on the agenda. And they don't need to follow no rules! NBachers Dec 17 #26
The fascist right has long dreamed of a convention. J_William_Ryan Dec 17 #27
Fear mongering twaddle. valleyrogue Dec 17 #29

pnwmom

(109,641 posts)
14. A Constitutional Convention at this time would be against our best interest. They could strike freedom of religion,
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 05:37 PM
Dec 16

the whole bill of rights, or anything they wanted.

mtasselin

(668 posts)
28. billionaires
Tue Dec 17, 2024, 07:11 AM
Dec 17

This would turn the whole country over to the billionaires, and with their money, they could and would do whatever they wanted.

Fiendish Thingy

(18,820 posts)
2. A CC cannot amend the constitution
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:17 PM
Dec 16

It can only propose amendments , which must then be ratified by the regular process.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,480 posts)
4. Which, if I correctly recall my High School Civics class,
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:21 PM
Dec 16

requires 2/3rds of the Congress and 3/4th of states approval to ratify it.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,480 posts)
6. Ahh, thank you.
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:25 PM
Dec 16

I stand corrected.

I seriously doubt that there would be 3/4ths of the states ratifying anything at this point.

eallen

(2,975 posts)
3. If a convention is called, blue states should work together to use it to leave the union
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:19 PM
Dec 16

That should be the only proposal they approve, and the only amendment they ratify.


Karasu

(368 posts)
7. At this point, I would be in favor of that. I don't want or need my life to be influenced by the decisions of
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:27 PM
Dec 16

unqualified fascists, and I don't particularly have any desire to contribute any further to a country that enables and empowers them.

The Madcap

(599 posts)
9. Along with peaceful relocations for people who want to
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:48 PM
Dec 16

Cross the borders before the remaining red country goes absolutely insane. Maybe they should also suggest a reduction in the number of states.

mwooldri

(10,429 posts)
18. An amendment to allow a state to leave the union.
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 08:45 PM
Dec 16

The European Union has an article in its constitution that allows for it. The United States should have a similar mechanism, but be more clearly defined and harder to do than a Brexit.

not fooled

(6,115 posts)
11. This is the 666koch666 wet dream
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 04:35 PM
Dec 16

they/the remaining one have been plotting and scheming to get a cc for years. Get rid of all of those pesky words having to do with promoting "the general welfare" and all those other commie pinko mistakes the Founding Fathers included in error.

https://billmoyers.com/story/kochs-to-rewrite-constitution/]

The Koch Connection to the Push For a Constitutional Convention

Libertarian billionaires Charles and David Koch have long opposed federal power and federal spending. Koch Industries is one of the nation’s biggest polluters and has been sanctioned and fined over and over again by both federal and state authorities. In response, the Kochs have launched a host of “limited government” advocacy organizations and have created a massive $400 million campaign finance network, fueled by their fortunes and those of their wealthy, right-wing allies, that rivals the two major political parties.

The Kochs’ Americans for Prosperity says it favors a balanced budget convention. Such an austerity amendment would drastically cut the size of the federal government, threatening critical programs like Social Security and Medicare and eviscerating the government’s ability to respond to economic downturns, major disasters and the climate crisis.

AFP has opposed an open convention, calling it “problematic.” But whatever qualms the Kochs might have, they continue to be a bedrock funder of the entire convention “movement.”

ancianita

(38,880 posts)
12. A Constitutional Convention Would Supercharge Project 2025
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 04:52 PM
Dec 16
https://www.exposedbycmd.org/2024/10/10/a-constitutional-convention-would-supercharge-project-2025/

Although ALEC and its allies speak in generalities about what they would seek to accomplish in a convention — using vague terms such as “fiscal responsibility” and limiting “federal overreach” — they clearly see an Article V convention as a crucial vehicle for enacting the same radical agenda that drove Project 2025. Indeed, ALEC serves on the advisory board for Project 2025.

These intentions are evident from the enormous resources ALEC’s funders are devoting to pushing for an Article V convention and from the amendments proposed by the mock conventions they have convened. The most recent of these was the Convention of States’ (COS) August 2023 mock convention in Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, bringing together mostly Republican legislators from 49 states...

Project 2025 seeks to undermine civil rights, demanding an end to energetic enforcement of the rights of people seeking to access abortion clinics (at pp. 557-58) and redirecting the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department to attack diversity programs (at pp. 560-62). COS’s “Federal Legislative & Executive Jurisdiction Proposal 1” goes even farther, eliminating the constitutional authority for most civil rights laws by sharply restricting Congress’s authority to regulate interstate commerce to “buying, selling, or transportation of commercial goods and services across state lines.” All existing laws and regulations exceeding this authority, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Fair Housing Act of 1968, would be nullified in two years.


The key to preventing a new Republican majority in Congress from calling an Article V convention is to deny them enough state applications to be able to make a credible claim that two-thirds of the states have applied for one, as the Constitution requires. Although the ALEC-allied groups are well short of two-thirds of the states on any honest measure, ALEC and one of the lawyers involved in the 2020 fake electors scheme have been devising exotic legal theories that would allow them to count states’ old, moot, and unrelated convention calls toward the 34-state threshold.

PortTack

(34,840 posts)
17. The gqp resurrect this relic every few yrs as if it's just a simple process. Nothing could be further from the truth
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 08:34 PM
Dec 16

rpannier

(24,598 posts)
20. I Count 33-34 states needed to have a CC (2/3)
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 08:56 PM
Dec 16

I count 28 that are controlled by Republicans.
NH, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, AR, TN,
KY, OH, IN, LA, TX, OK, KS, NE, ND, SD
IA, MT, WY, ID, UT, AK, WI, AZ

OldBaldy1701E

(6,630 posts)
21. Not unless the people of each state are the ones to choose their delegates.
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 09:18 PM
Dec 16

The state legislatures should not be allowed to do anything but watch. This is a federal matter, and the states need to stay out of it by letting the people of each state choose their delegates by popular vote ONLY.

But, that is not going to happen, so we will get what they want us to get.

Blue Full Moon

(1,327 posts)
22. This has been the goal
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 09:47 PM
Dec 16

They have been waiting and to them it's now. But I don't think that they have states to get it passed yet.

Metaphorical

(2,346 posts)
23. I can see too many scenarios in which it happens
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 10:41 PM
Dec 16

To me, the question should be, "if it happens, what should be the Democratic response?"

The fundamental problem is that the way Article V of the constitution is worded, approval is done by the state legislatures or by a state convention, but it doesn't really identify the mechanism for the latter.

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.


What this means is that a conservative legislature can ratify the ruling of the convention even if it is not agreed upon by the populace at large. My assumption is that most people, given the opportunity to vote, would likely not vote to ratify anything they see as extremist (such as leaving the union) but the legislature may very well do so (I can see Texas doing it in a heartbeat, for instance). Nor does it provide any indication for how delegates would be chosen for the convention itself, beyond the likelihood of their being 538 such delegates.

If a CC were to be called today, I would assume that it would be Congress that met in a joint session - not ideal for the Democrats, but it would be 217-216 and 53-47 respectively for a total of 270-263 for the Rs, each with very different agendas. Additionally, this is a process to amend the constitution, though this could very well include declaring it null and void, but these would have to be agreed to by 2/3 of congress (roughly 360 delegates), so would require 90 Democrats in addition to all of the Republicans to pass anything.

Expect a provision for secession to be revisited, which would also give a chance to nail down exactly how that would happen and how to ensure that such a transition could occur peacefully (and honestly, I think it SHOULD be in the constitution, just very, very difficult to achieve). Executive authority would also be challenged, but I don't believe Congress would go so far as to cede much more power to the executive branch than they already have (even on the Republican side). I don't see the IRS being defunded or the Fed eliminated, though no doubt an attempt will be made. I think an effort to expand the number of judges on SCOTUS might very well pass. A balanced budget amendment might pass, though I also doubt it will, but a simple clarification that any appropriations bill that is not signed into law would mean that the old budget remains in effect in the following calendar year until superseded may very well pass. Eliminating the Electoral College is likely a non-starter. The filibuster may go the way of the dodo, as would blue card rules and a few other Senatorial enhancements.

In short, with the two possible exceptions of secession and rendering the Constitution null and void (the first might pass, the second won't), I don't see radical change coming out of a CC - IF it was held today. Now, IF there was an overwhelming majority of one party in both houses, this may be a different situation, but the GOP has had as much trouble achieving a large majority as the Democrats.

Second issue - if secession was made legal, which states would go? I assume that, even holding a majority of states, the GOP isn't going to convince a majority of those states to actually leave. However, let's say that FL, the Deep South, and TX left the union, shifting the balance of power considerably over to the Democrats. I don't believe the Midwestern or Plains states would leave the Union either. I would also expect that even with majorities in the assemblies of these states, the likelihood that any of them WOULD leave the union is nil, especially as this would only happen in the case that the amendment to provide a secession mechanism was passed and ratified.

So I think that a constitutional convention would not be the slam dunk rewrite that the most die-hard MAGAts believe it would be. It is, when you get right down to it, a way of fast-tracking amendments.

pbmus

(12,444 posts)
25. And those amendments would be extremely one sided with the Koch brothers
Tue Dec 17, 2024, 12:03 AM
Dec 17

Directing traffic and project 25 writing policy

LT Barclay

(2,777 posts)
24. In some ways its not a bad idea, but people can't understand or stick with the one we have.
Mon Dec 16, 2024, 11:24 PM
Dec 16

I'm talking to you SCOTUS.

NBachers

(18,197 posts)
26. What a revolting freak show that would be. Every maggot wet dream on the agenda. And they don't need to follow no rules!
Tue Dec 17, 2024, 12:21 AM
Dec 17

Straight outta the Hitler playbook

J_William_Ryan

(2,267 posts)
27. The fascist right has long dreamed of a convention.
Tue Dec 17, 2024, 03:46 AM
Dec 17

Get rid of that pesky 14th Amendment:

No more birthright citizenship.

No more incorporation doctrine applying the Bill of Rights to the states; indeed, get rid of the Bill of Rights altogether.

A ‘new’ Second Amendment making possession of an assault weapon a fundamental right.

valleyrogue

(1,203 posts)
29. Fear mongering twaddle.
Tue Dec 17, 2024, 09:06 AM
Dec 17

I don't know why articles like this that are basically speculative fiction are considered "news" and people get all riled up about it.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»A Constitutional Conventi...