The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsThe death of text.
Just a little gripe from a grumpy old man. It is saddening to me that text is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. How often I have clicked on a post thinking "that sounds interesting," only to be greeted by a video of some talking head instead of some meaty text I can read and interpret at my leisure. Or some tweet with a one-liner and no context whatsoever.
I prefer to read arguments, not listen to someone present them verbally on a camera. Obviously I'm a dinosaur. And there's probably a good video or two discussing how the move towards video argumentation has changed the way we think as a species.
-- Mal
Irish_Dem
(59,785 posts)Young people today cannot even sign their own names.
They have trouble reading any material longer than a brief texting message.
Most of the US seems to operate on a 6th grade level.
Redleg
(6,250 posts)I don't blame the youngs for this though. I have seen plenty of people near my age who seem to have short attention spans and poor writing skill.
SeattleVet
(5,599 posts)which is probably why so many MAGAt's think he's a genius.
Irish_Dem
(59,785 posts)Americans appear to like to be entertained.
And like to go to the dark underbelly of human nature.
Redleg
(6,250 posts)People say they like Trump because he is "authentic" and "tells it like it is." First of all, they have tortured the meaning of authenticity beyond all recognition. Second, Trump lies with more ease, confidence, and regularity than any politician or person I have ever known. These rubes just don't know that Trump is manipulating them and doesn't give a good god-damn for them beyond their votes and their attendance at his rallies.
Clouds Passing
(2,778 posts)PatSeg
(49,755 posts)brought us to this point. Before that, television contributed as well. Now people are stimulated all the time, so there are rarely those quiet moments when a person will pick up something to read to pass the time. Years ago I commuted to work on a train. It was a great time to read as there was rarely anything else to do.
As for the excessive videos and reels online, I also prefer to read than listen to someone else tell me what is going on. Now and then I appreciate a visual, but most of the time, I find the videos annoying.
Comfortably_Numb
(4,121 posts)know, how quaint. The class looked puzzled, and my mid-twenty something TA explained to me that most of the kids in freshman history cant read cursive. Hand to Odin true story.
Irish_Dem
(59,785 posts)A college professor teaching undergrad classes gave a test to her class.
She told them it would not be done online but in class.
No laptops allowed.
She handed them the test papers and pencils.
They were to read the questions from the test paper
and write out the answers with the pencil.
The class looked at her blankly and protested they could not do it.
I think it is interesting that your TA actually knew what cursive writing is.
LearnedHand
(4,226 posts)Handwriting is changing, AS IT ALWAYS HAS. Not one of us writes with the flying beauty of those who penned the Constitution, but it hasn't lost meaning. Please don't judge an entire generation from one secondhand anecdote.
LearnedHand
(4,226 posts)All the young prople I know and/or work with not only can sign their names but are highly creative and intelligent. And they read. Half the people I exchange book ideas with are young folks. Maybe let's not paint an entire generation with such an unlovely brush?
Irish_Dem
(59,785 posts)Young people had a hard time writing a signature on the ballots that matched their driver's license or voter registration card. So some of their ballots were rejected.
I didn't make up these stories they were in the press.
Facts are facts. I am not painting anything.
Perhaps you are not aware that it is very widely known that young people have not been
taught cursive writing for quite some time now.
Perhaps you also do not know that there is no correlation between being able to write cursive and IQ level/ measures of creativity.
LearnedHand
(4,226 posts)Irish_Dem
(59,785 posts)Since you appear to think I am a liar, I assume you will not trust my links either.
LearnedHand
(4,226 posts)You just mentioned you read about this and I was interested.
jfz9580m
(15,584 posts)But apparently it is true. I was surprised too..
https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-voters-struggle-signatures-cast-mail-ballot-problems-2024-11?op=1
https://fortune.com/2024/11/07/gen-z-voters-basic-skill-signing-names-vote-counting-chaos-election-official/
He said more mail ballots have been rejected because of issues with young voters' signatures.
Many schools stopped teaching cursive in 2010, leading to a generation unfamiliar with the style.
As more schools stop teaching cursive handwriting, fewer young people have distinct signatures and that could affect Gen Z voters as they try to cast their votes.
Gen Z is also apparently worse at deciphering disinfo :-/.
https://phys.org/news/2023-06-misinformation-susceptibility-online-gen-millennials.html
I am with you. I am also not into generation wars for either direction - this is only interesting as a potential indication of what happens when societies devalue education and invest less and less in it. Especially when such societies are also awash in junk filled social media and other brain rotting stuff. I dont have a point about youth versus wisdom or tech versus Luddites.
My point is that a lot of the content I have seen people devouring is truly this low quality, brain rotting crap. And it is available at your finger tips. These are not quality, useful respectable services bought to you by useful tech often. It is low info, junk food for the brain. Idiocracys ow my balls.
I waste time skimming stuff too. I do not retain much and end up having too many tabs open. But at least the basic material I read is okay. It does bother me that I do not retain much unless I actively exert myself -it is a waste if you dont retain stuff. But it is not low quality material at least.
But the few times people have shown me the stuff they watch on TikTok, I have found it appallingly unwatchable. I dont know how anyone consumes large volumes of that crap. And yet I see people stare at their phones with glazed eyes looking almost zombified.
I do feel tech is making us stupider
That is not a criticism of these young people so much as of the system they are stuck with. My general impression is that we treat educators like crap and so why wouldnt education suffer? And of course that gives the children of wealthier parents advantages that exacerbate inequality.
And I also dont doubt that this constant stimulation media environment is brain rotting. It has definitely made me stupider on the whole . As I said, it is not really good for long term retention, focus etc.
I actually went ahead and invested in a printer a few years ago and have found it worth it..
One of my favorite tech critics has written about it. He articulated the sense I had when I would look at that stuff-a disorienting sense that irrelevant garbage and meaningful info were casually jumbled together:
https://www.roughtype.com/?cat=21
LearnedHand
(4,226 posts)However, I think we need to modernize the voting process to accommodate people's changing signature habits and not, as you mentioned, carry on a generational war. Of course, that presents its own issues, given the intense, widespread voter suppression.
It just discourages me so much when a thread about preferring text over video slides into a generic bashing of young people. Clearly the dems can't afford to lose more young people. Maybe we all should celebrate their differences and innovations instead of shouting for them to get off our lawns. Or gods forbid to be more like us.
Edit: I didn't mean to ignore the rest of your well-reasoned thoughts. The need to teach people how to think critically is ENORMOUS and I don't know even where to begin. I mean, the very basics would be a good start: Suspend your judgment, identify whether the speaker/writer has an angenda or was funded by those who do, check additional sources, learn what is and is not a trusted source. These could go a long way way. I suspect that it would take an intensive, long-term psyops effort. Something like Radio America or something.
jfz9580m
(15,584 posts)I think we are on the same page . I agree with what you said. Broad sweeping generalisations are generally bound to be inaccurate anyway.
I think the main generational differences we are going to see will be due to accelerated deterioration of society. Hopefully it produces new responses from the youth as they (correctly) get more angry and frustrated with their lot.
LearnedHand
(4,226 posts)I've not heard of him. What area of tech is he in? Also, do you read Cory Doctorow? He's another tech thinker, is a co-founder of Electronic Freedom Foundation, and inventor of the word/concept "enshittification."
jfz9580m
(15,584 posts)I dont think he actually works in tech. He observes it and provides insightful critiques.
I came across this article in 2020 and found it eye opening:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is_Google_Making_Us_Stupid%3F
I had been feeling for a while that using the net to read research papers was bad for my brain.
You end up skimming and retaining information poorly. It is not the best form for attention and memory imo. I read his book The Shallows and thought it was very interesting.
I generally find his takes on tech useful:
https://www.newcartographies.com/
https://www.roughtype.com/
I really like how he thinks (aside from his admiration for Stephen Pinker which is his one view I do not share ;-/.).
I have heard of Cory Doctorow. I heard of him via John Naughtons Guardian page. Heh yeah..enshittification. So that was Doctorow? I think I heard that term on another ai critics substack (Gary Marcus). That pretty much fits our media environment (with all due apologies to mere feces which is less weaponized).
1000% agree.
Especially when it is some podcaster influencer just trying to repackage day-old news for clicks. But I can usually avoid those because they get put into a special category
PatSeg
(49,755 posts)I can read in 4 or 5 minutes. Also, I'm really tired of opinions. I can form my own with the facts.
morillon
(1,248 posts)...to maximize revenue. Drives me nuts.
I can read way faster than these videos can deliver information, so I skip them. If the video is the ONLY way I can get the information, I go over to YouTube and read the transcript.
Much like cable news does. You watch an hour of programming to get 5 or 10 minutes of actually information. Rachel is a master at dragging out a story and I used to hit fast-forward a lot during her first segment. Now that I've quit cable news, I have time for more interesting pursuits.
I've seen videos where a synopsis would take only a minute to WRITE!
We'd probably read in 10-15 seconds.
Flatrat
(165 posts)Dont have the patience to listen to babble. Dont want verbose strangers explaining to me what I am seeing. I can see for myself.
Quickest way to not get a read is to post a X-itter link. Second quickest way is to post a video.
If you have to post a video, accompany it with a brief synopsis. Not every user can see, or hear.
Tesha
(20,978 posts)Far too much bla, bla to get to the meat of the post.
I too prefer to read, reread what interests me, skip to a point I need for comprehension
Give me text every time.
splat
(2,335 posts)I can scan text and get it all in a few seconds. Video, almost never.
malthaussen
(17,789 posts)Takes me ten seconds to read what it takes some talking head a minute or more to say.
-- Mal
Demobrat
(9,953 posts)I can read the same material in a fraction of the time.
Bernardo de La Paz
(51,334 posts)But some people enjoy being spoonfed little bits of info at the turtle pace of some presenter.
Videos are great for cooking demos and fixing cars, but not so good at political analysis and discussion. All too often (almost always) there is the real goal buried deep in a minutes long video: an 8 second soundbyte. Yay! It only took the commentator 5 minutes to get around to it.
Redleg
(6,250 posts)I have passed over so many videos posted here at DU because I would rather read the transcript or a summary. We dinosaurs have gotta stick together!
LearnedHand
(4,226 posts)I think it's an entertainment and attention/distraction thing. I loathe video training, for example, because I don't need to be entertained to take in the material. I don't understand why myself, but other people prefer videos. They're not wrong though to prefer videos.
Redleg
(6,250 posts)I still prefer to read hard copies of books, journal articles, etc. The amount of reading I do for my work (college professor) has decreased somewhat since most of the academic journals are online rather than hard copy.
The Unmitigated Gall
(4,625 posts)I deleted a local news app that was doing exactly that. They moved to a format with headlines almost always leading to a video to watch...screw that. If it's important, I can usually find a text version.
Kidz these days...they CAN read. But, many of them grew up without bookcases in their houses. Mine did have books.
Preserve literature. Preserve everything you can.
Fascist regimes are cultural wastelands; at some point we'll have to pick up again with what we've been able to save.
Support libraries.
sinkingfeeling
(53,270 posts)don't post the link and a few paragraphs. Sometimes you have to click on it to go to X and then click again to get to the actual print article.
surfered
(3,800 posts)highplainsdem
(52,846 posts)before news stories with those remarks do, and also can convey more with tone and expression. And I appreciate good commentary, even when brief, and don't post it unless the context is obvious.
It isn't either/or.
ShazzieB
(18,939 posts)I will happily watch a video of someone like Lawrence O'Donnell or Rachel Madow dissecting an issue, because they have a way of explaining things that are confusing and filling in gaps in my knowledge that greatly enhance my understanding of the matter at hand.
There are some youtubers who make good contributions as well. Luke Beasley is a favorite of mine, and Mary Trump is putting out some worthwhile video content these days, too.
I ignore a lot of the Meidas Touch (except Legal AF, which can be quite informative) and tiktok stuff, but it's easy to identify those, so they don't bother me.
I will admit that my attitude toward videos has softened since I got a hearing aid that has blue tooth. Now I can watch videos (or listen to podcasts) almost anywhere and no one can hear it but me. It's like having s superpower!
Innocent Smith
(481 posts)Videos instead of text seem to have become more and more common in the last decade. And many times it'll be 20 minute video that I don't have time to watch.
WalkerinSC
(261 posts)I just move on.
DU should require a brief abstract of any videos posted.
highplainsdem
(52,846 posts)out much of what was said, sometimes misrepresenting what was going on.
Think of all the sanewashing of Trump's speeches, for instance.
AverageOldGuy
(2,186 posts)When I click on an articles headline only to be taken to a video, I dismiss the video and go elsewhere.
Id rather read so I can go back and read something time and time again if need be.
But, as you are, Im an old dinosaur.
ancianita
(38,881 posts)particularly when any user clicks on a malicious link embedded within the text message, a practice commonly known as "smishing" (SMS phishing) which can lead to malware installation on the user's phone; however, simply receiving a text message without clicking on any links is generally not harmful.
The primary way malware is delivered through text messages is through malicious links that, when clicked, can redirect the user to a website designed to download malware or steal personal information.
But one never knows, does one. You might have forgotten that you've done that.
The death of your device might also be what's going on here.
How to identify suspicious texts:
1. Be wary of texts with urgent requests, unexpected offers, links from unknown senders, or requests for personal information.
Protection measures:
2. Do not click links from unknown senders .
3. Verify the sender before taking action .
4. Keep your phone's operating system and security software updated
Strong suggestions:
1. If your texting is connected by wifi to other devices like laptops and/or tablets or other phones, particularly Android, you take any one of them into a local computer tech shop (Geek Squad or ?) and have them check for malware on your device.
A techie searches for malware on devices by using antivirus software that employs techniques like signature-based detection, static and dynamic analysis to scan files and monitor system behavior, comparing them to a database of known malware signatures to identify potential threats; they may also use tools to check file checksums, monitor network traffic, and analyze suspicious file behaviors in a sandboxed environment to detect malicious activity.
If they find malware on any one of your devices, they'll probably find that malware on all of them. Why? Because of wifi transmission.
2. You can also have techies install Antivirus and anti-malware software on all your devices to detect and remove malware. These tools can provide real-time protection through constant scanning or detect and remove malware by executing routine system scans.
3. Most important: Do it before Trump assumes office. After that, absolutely do not respond to texts from anyone but a friend. And even then, know your friend's texting habits, since they could also transmit malware to you unawares; so don't open any attachments they pass along.
Kali
(55,883 posts)but yes, sometimes I just want to read what sounds like a good article. something in depth and well written.
nmmi
(220 posts)As for video, if I want to make a summary of key take-aways, I have to type stuff, noting where in the video it occurred (if I need or want to refer to it again, which is often because sometimes I'm not sure of what I first heard, in which case I have to listen to it a 2nd or 3rd time to make sure my notes are correct), like at 17:23 mm:ss, and then type while the video is playing at the risk of missing something, or pause the video, then resume, pause ...
bhikkhu
(10,761 posts)Writing an argument is a fundamentally different operation from speaking an argument. Some people are good at making verbal arguments, but that's a pretty rare talent. More often you find someone who is good at speaking, but who doesn't really make arguments at all, rather the more common thing is making observations. That's a much different thing, and less useful in many ways, especially if there is a questionable argument that underpins them, sitting unaddressed.
What you wind up with is not so much the communication of information, but the solicitation of trust. Which is to say - we don't get enough information to make a fact-based decision one way or another, but we do have the ability to choose to trust the speaker or not. It's definitely a different thing.
Basso8vb
(458 posts)Like you, I prefer to read read read.
Auggie
(31,915 posts)Elessar Zappa
(16,102 posts)One isnt better than the other.
hunter
(39,067 posts)Many people abandon their critical thinking skills when they watch television news and opinion, same as they would for any soap opera.
Real life is not a soap opera, although it begins to resemble one when people cast their votes based upon what they are seeing and hearing on the moving picture screen, and how they end up following fops like Donald Trump or Joe Rogan.
Srkdqltr
(7,783 posts)Jacson6
(853 posts)Deuxcents
(20,169 posts)Politics Girl, the Liberal Hillbilly who reports from his car. Politics Girl gets right to the point and the other video has humor with the bad news. Most take forever to make a point or there is no point.
LoisB
(9,025 posts)them. If it's a topic that doesn't require much thought, I don't mind listening.
jfz9580m
(15,584 posts)I cant stand non-text media. It is distracting..it takes longer to process.
On a related note, I also find it annoying when people want you to make phone calls rather than use email or text. Dammit email is so easy! And requires so much less interaction ;-/.
I love text.
I also hate getting those stupid voice messages in lieu of a written note. They go on and on for ever. Text is so easy..if it is long you can skim and skip over stuff easily. And other people can do the same with ones drivel.
I am relatively young (by DU standards anyway - I am in my mid forties and so I do remember a pre-internet life) but still feel this way.
nilram
(3,016 posts)When I do watch a video, I often put the speed at 125%, or even higher if it's really slow.
rasputin1952
(83,233 posts)I find it dismaying as well.
More often than not, we've depleted the written word into an emoji or absurd tapdance as opposed to what most of us were brought up to believe was intelligent discourse.
Having a babbling buffoon elected twice to the highest office in the land, has me wondering about the perceptions some people have.
TexLaProgressive
(12,336 posts)I also miss reading a true broadsheet newspaper every day.
SWBTATTReg
(24,360 posts)conversations, one-on-one so to speak, and just plain good ol' back and forth w/ people on here. That's how I like it when we go out and visit our friends, we don't turn on the TV, we sit there, chat and whatnot, and simply enjoy the companionship.
I don't think it's becoming a thing of the past, it's just that too many don't seem to have the knack of knowing how to actual have a conversation. Me and my SO found this out years and years ago, and it seems so many don't learn the art of one on one conversations, and engage in 'making statements' conversations, just one-way conversations.
And I do, do, do agree w/ you. How long has it been since I've been to an enjoyable conversation, one-on-one, or whatever size, that all of us are thoughtfully engaged, able to make their points w/o being overtalked by those few we all know that won't let anyone else talk. Those kinds of people I either turn my hearing aids off or I walk away.
And there is nothing wrong w/ being a dinosaur, you're simply one in a million who appreciates the fine art of conversation, an art that few really know how to do.
Take care and have a good conversation today w/ a valued friend or family member, or even a stranger you've just me!
J_William_Ryan
(2,272 posts)Correct.
Or one can read text a lot faster than watching a video; reading is quicker and more efficient.
Phentex
(16,568 posts)I've posted in a video thread before and that's where videos belong. But yes, many forums I'm on will have posts that are nothing but a video with a link to see/hear the story. No, not interested!
Earthrise
(15,718 posts)hunter
(39,067 posts)My wife and I read our news.
I quit television news and opinion a long time ago. My wife has never tolerated it.
I'm not a fan of "social media" either. DU is my only social media site.
If there is any sort of "Latest Breaking News!" that requires my immediate attention someone will call me on the phone.
Fla Dem
(25,870 posts)I basically don't look at posts with video because 9/10 times it's a podcast.
eppur_se_muova
(37,673 posts)... we are slowly becoming less and less literate and less sophisticated in our language -- everything is reduced to a meme or a monosyllable -- I think the frustration some people feel about not being able to express themselves may stem from these trends.
Of course, some people have no legacy of education in their families, and especially not those for whom it was forcibly denied (I still think about John Lewis telling the story of his father visiting the Capitol (IIRC) with his son, the new Congressman from GA, and remarking that he wondered what HE could have accomplished, if he had only had the chance ... whole generations denied opportunity). But there are some parts of our culture (do I need quotes around that ?) where people can become outrageously rich without ever having the benefit of a full, broad and deep education, where talent can overwhelm obstacles as not in other fields -- music, sports, film, TV, and other entertainments being the most obvious. When AAs were barred from so many fields, they were "allowed" to succeed in show business in front of white audiences because it seemed like harmless entertainment, and it really was exceptionally entertaining at times (hey, jazz fan here) even though it could also be demeaning, and yeah of course white "managers" had to get their cut, which was seldom even honestly reported to the "talent". Things have gotten incrementally better for Blacks and other minorities, once pretty much outcasts in America, but we've never had the really fundamental change we need, even when the need was written into law. "First in family to get a college degree" is something to be proud of (almost true of me, too) but there are things you don't know -- attitudes as much as knowledge -- because they need to be passed on by your family, and your family never had the experience of dealing with say, the challenges of not blowing your big success. Or when you really need a lawyer, and how to find a good one (If you'rer not one of the monied, you probably have learned to distrust lawyers because they are often turned against you and your kind. To those with money, they're just a tool to be used when needed). Look at how many athletes, once featured on the Sports page every week, have gone bankrupt or worse.
I'd probably better stop here, before I start interpreting rap (which is actually not a single monolithic thing, anyway) and how it is IMHO both a result and a furtherance of the intellectual impoverishment of our society. Oh, and blogs ... and selfies ... and "reality" TV ... everyone feverishly trying to get their "message" out there without asking, with true deep critical thought, "what do I actually have that's worth sharing that widely, that isn't just something everyone else already has -- and do I have the tools to formulate a worthwhile message based on that ?". Meh. Nope, too many big words (remember monosyllables, um, Dude ?), too much thinking. tl/dr, dt. Don't think, do, and before you know it you can't think your way out of a simple problem for lack of practice in actual thinking.Writing is just thinking with a pencil, and we've regressed to "writing" with minimalist images -- what linguists label as "ideographs", which preceded the more powerful concept of alphabets. Or maybe "idiographs", lacking broader meaning.
eppur_se_muova
(37,673 posts)malthaussen
(17,789 posts)The Pythons were so in touch with how the real world works.
-- Mal