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[juxtaposed]

This message was self-deleted by its author (juxtaposed) on Sun Apr 24, 2016, 01:14 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[SusanCalvin]

1. Toward trying to move us to a parliamentary system,

Like most of the rest of the democratic world.

[enlightenment]

6. Thank you.

This is exactly what we should be doing.

[oldandhappy]

2. We will go home and go back to work and

do a variety of things. Some us will work on get out the vote efforts. I will work my precinct. Some of us will change our registration and vote Green or write in Bernie. Some of us will vote for clinton. Some of us may sit out but I hope not. I am not interested in a third party run. I am very very interested in some kind of national movement to keep the issues alive and to keep pushing the DNC towards a less restrictive management of the party. There are many answers.

[juxtaposed]

4. One thing I have noticed is a lot of friends that have not voted in years or ever vote, Sanders has

brought them in. A very simple message, Fairness.

[Scootaloo]

5. Just as soon as someone figures out how to "push the DNC"

if Bernie does not secure the primary, the party will uniformly assume that his issues were unimportant, and write them off in favor of a Nixonian agendas. If his supporters dump the party hard enough to cause a loss, not only are we stuck with Trump, but the party will decide that we're not worth listening to (Well, that'll be their excuse for not listening to us after that) and will decide to embrace Republican stances to "appeal to voters" - after all, Trump won, so Trump must be right!

With the party deciding these issues are of no importance and the voters behind those issues are disposable, it's damned hard ot get supportive candidates into office - the DNC will oppose them every step of the way, and then point out that their loss means that "people aren't interested"

Basically the party is on a set trajectory to be a right-wing corporatism shithole, and there is no really good way to hit the brakes if this attempt fails.

I'm not saying don't try. I'm just intensely skeptical that any results will be garnered.

[SheilaT]

3. Write him in in the General Election.

Personally, I'm more than over voting for the "lesser of two evils". Because I'd still be voting for an evil. If it's Hillary vs the Donald in November, I don't really give a flying fuck who wins. Not that I think they are the same, because they are not, but it's a question of Do I want to go to Hell in a handbasket now? Or next week?

Hillary still supports the TPP, thinks a $12/hour minimum wage is just fine, is willing to compromise on a woman's right to control her own body, will be happy to make cuts in Medicare and Social Security. How exactly is this fighting for women and children? She hasn't a clue. Nor do her groupies. All they can see is OMG! A WOMAN PRESIDENT!!! without really looking at who she is, what she has actually done over the years, her advocacy of war war war.

No, thank you. I could quietly leave this country, or stay here and live quietly. I have decent resources, meaning I'm not dependent on just my Social Security to survive. I actually saved money and invested it over the years, and while I'm not exactly rich by objective measures, I do have enough of a nest egg to hang in there.

So all of you Hillary people, go ahead and vote for her. And when you find yourselves working two minimum wage jobs with no benefits, reflect back on her time on the Walmart board, when she quietly acquiesced to their union busting. Unions that made the middle class in this country. Unions that gave us the forty hour week, vacations, sick pay, and health care benefits. And remember that she clearly doesn't care at all about those things, because she can get a cool quarter of a million dollars per paid speech. Oh, yes, she and Bill were "flat broke" when they left the White House, but I suspect her version of flat broke is nothing like mine or yours. I bet she never had to choose between paying the electric bill or the water bill. I bet she was never two paychecks from homelessness. Flat broke my ass.

So go ahead and vote for her. But don't be the least bit surprised at what happens under her administration.

I will be happily saying I told you so.

[juxtaposed]

7. she's cool now with $15, lol. most are already working multiple jobs.

you do know you are preaching to the choir but well stated.

[SheilaT]

10. Yeah, isn't it interesting that she's cool with $15 now that

a couple of states have actually put that number into the pipeline.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Hillary Clinton.

[juxtaposed]

14. champion of who, maybe my ass.

[TBF]

8. Look, I don't know how Starry feels but this really isn't the

group for this subject. I realize Sawant is a socialist and I signed her petition. But I'd really appreciate if you could take this to the Bernie Sanders group instead. Sorry, it's a hot button for me today as I am sick of hearing this question which is at heart divisive. Why is the question not "where would hillary ppl go if she loses? No, instead I've seen this very question asked in countless ways on most of the internet sites I've visited today. In my view, a coordinated and artless attempt to create division. We still have 1400 delegates out there. Let's try democracy for once and let people vote.

[juxtaposed]

9. this has been posted here before ? is that what you are saying.

[TBF]

13. I am saying it does not belong in this group -

I'd appreciate if you would self-delete.

Go post it in some other group. You are specifically in the Socialist Progressives Group. We have rules in here and although we post a variety of things I think what you are doing is way off topic.

This is our welcoming statement:

Welcome Comrades! *** Updated July 22, 2014 ***
This discussion thread is pinned and locked. It is closed to new replies.
Socialist Progressives Group - SOP


Welcome to the Socialist Progressives Group. Posts in this group should generally be supportive of socialism and socialists. We are largely anti-capitalist and will not tolerate red-baiting. We welcome leftists of all persuasion as allowed per the admin's TOS. Democratic (ballot box) socialism, revolutionary socialism, Syndicalists and autonomists are all ok. Pure black flag (as opposed to red/black) anarchists who would rather organize with any anarchist than socialists, including anarcho-capitalists and libertarians, will not be welcome. If you don't know what kind of anarchist you are, cool, so long as you don't hijack and red-bait. This includes no "you're a dictator-lover" if you support the Russian Revolution. CPUSA members, please chime in.

Social Democrats are welcome with the explanation that if someone believes in "regulated" capitalism and social programs, they're a Keynesian, not a socialist. We welcome your questions as long as you're pleasant and don't red bait or shift the discussion away from socialism. You'll find many of us support Obama and his re-election given our two-party system, but this is not the forum to talk about the intricacies of elections - see the Politics forum for those conversations. We are more concerned with safe-guarding the working class gains we've made in this country thus far and encouraging the peaceful transition to socialism. Please no Trotsky or Stalin baiting, we've all seen it fracture groups and do not want to fight that battle again.

*** Updated 7/21/2014: We've been in this group for a couple of years now and we are excited to see the growth in readership. Please be aware, however, that this is a protected group. Our purpose is to view issues through a working class lens. As capitalism has become a global force we are in solidarity with workers worldwide. Expect that we will discuss the effects of capitalism on the working class in all areas - whether it agrees with the view of the current administration or not. Sometimes visitors to our group seem determined to contribute only because they feel the need to protect certain politicians or viewpoints. If you care to add a substantive and productive comment on the OPs here, in the spirit of our SOP, that kind of contribution is welcomed. Throw-away comments from newcomers who haven't posted in here before, especially of the "snark" variety, are not welcome and will not be tolerated. Either contribute in a positive way or you will be banned on either a temporary or permanent basis.

[MADem]

11. Some will go to Trump. Some might go to Stein. Some to Clinton.

Some might just stay home, or waste their vote by angrily writing in their candidate even though he conceded.

If their candidate works to get the nominee elected, that might change a few minds.

They'll do what they want to do. It's their vote.

For those who say "Trump? NEVER!" I offer this link:

https://newrepublic.com/article/127442/explains-trump-sanders-crossover-vote

Last week a survey from Washington-based Mercury Analytics surfaced with a most curious finding: Roughly 20 percent of Democrats said they would defect from their party to vote for Donald Trump, with a surprising number of them declaring with 100 percent certainty they would be comfortable doing so. A smaller chunk of Republicans (14 percent) said they would switch to vote for Hillary Clinton.

The survey ignited a firestorm of intrigue. Are Democrats really so taken with Trump? Given Trump’s extremist boosters (most recently an openly white-supremacist super PAC), the ready crossover seemed especially confusing. How could the right-wing candidate with some of the most extreme views in the race attract voters who ostensibly lean toward the center or left?

As The Washington Post’s Philip Bump points out, there’s probably not as much in the Mercury Analytics poll to get excited about as there initially seemed. But the prospect of crossover voting between the parties still deserves attention, especially in the unique cases of Trump and Bernie Sanders, whose mutual appeal to many of the same voters has been well noted. “Voters who were on the fence between the seemingly polar opposite candidates said both communicated well with working-class people and made strong cases for how they would improve the economy,” The New York Times reported from Vermont last week, observing the odd phenomenon of voters who consider the two candidates quite comparable. In the words of one voter: “Bernie is my No. 1 choice, and Trump is No. 2. They’re not that different.”

That voter’s view is not ill represented in the media. Despite the fact that Sanders and Trump are worlds apart politically, they have suffered endless comparisons, with some of the more ambitious parallels suggesting the two candidates are political twins. If they were similar in terms of policy, that could account for why they sometimes capture the interest of the same voters. And yet they aren’t, as I recently argued, in agreement on their major policies: The conclusion that they are can only be reached by cherry-picking issues they agree on along with several more mainstream candidates, or by abstracting a policy issue to the point that important distinctions are buried under general categories. ....One explanation is that Americans aren’t necessarily well-informed when it comes to policy particulars. A 2010 Pew Forum survey on policy and the public found that only 14 percent of Americans knew the current inflation rate; less than half knew which party held the majority in the U.S. House of Representatives; and only 16 percent knew that more than half of loans made under TARP had been paid back. Meanwhile, a 2012 Pew Forum poll on last cycle’s presidential campaigns found that just under half of voters knew what a super PAC was, and only 39 percent could identify John Roberts as the current Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. In other words, the technical policy differences that distinguish candidates from one another on paper might not always be entirely clear to voters, meaning their interest in various candidates shouldn’t automatically suggest that they view candidates’ policies as similar. ....

[dana_b]

12. Bernie people - be careful with your answers

some in this thread are getting reported on

[TBF]

15. I want to be clear that I haven't alerted on a single post

but as a host I would love this topic to be discussed elsewhere. If I had one wish it would be the ability to delete the thread.

It is really off-topic in here.