Just Bought A 12 String

[ProfessorGAC]

First, the backstory.
I have a Martin D-12X. Bought it 15-18 years ago. It was the cheapest American made Martin 12 they made, but it sounded & played great.
Over the years, the action got away from me. As I detune a whole step, I thought that was weird. So, I slacked the strings, got out the Allen wrench & to my surprise, the lug just spun freely.
I took it to a tech, and using a stethoscope & a little mallet determined the rod is broken at around the 14th fret. Guitar has never been adjusted & I'm the original owner. Had to be shipped from the factory with a defective rod. Fretboard off, new rod, new frets; minimum cost $450. Guitar is worth 5 or 6 hundred
The store (independent) the guy works out of just took five guitars on consignment. Retired cop (who I happened to know 45 or 50 years ago) in his 70s that has 35 guitars is downsizing. (Smaller house, less furniture, less stuff.
He brought in a Taylor, a Martin, an Epiphone archtop electric, a Flying V, and the one I bought.
The new one is a Carvin Cobalt 980. If I'm interpreting the serial number right it was built on 2004. This was well before Kiesel bought the name & started using it on budget models.
Jumbo body, built-in electronics, and beautiful inlay around the rosette & binding. (A little blingier than I usually like, but pretty.
The guy must have barely played it. There isn't a mark on it & even the pick guard shows only minimal wear.
Action is 2mm at the 12th fret! On a 12 string. No buzzes anywhere.
Next is shaped great, making it easy to play. Sliding into a chord (like playing an ASus9 in the standard position and sliding to a DMaj7 at the 4/5 frets) sounds great. The slide across the strings is smooth & clear.
I paid $625 out the door. In looking at Sweetwater, a formed 5 latch case is $200-250!
Plays fantastically, sounds huge, very bright & shimmery. Played chords up the neck (DMaj9 to G6, letting the 1st & 4th strings open. The chords were completely in intonation. Made me very happy.
I'm just going to slack the Martin to open C & use it for slide.
Here's a pic of the same guitar on another website.
https://www.truetonemusic.com/products/used-carvin-cobalt-980-acoustic-guitar-natural-with-ohsc

[viva la]

1. You'll have a great time with this!

I hope you'll share some music with us.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. I'm Getting Close To Recording...

...4 acoustic solo pieces. I've set up the 2 mikes and gotten all my cabling.
2 of them definitely are 6 string pieces. One was developed as a 12 string piece, but it's open tuned. Probably need the Martin, but that has no electronics. The 4th, I'm not sure yet. I think it would be cool on 12 strings, but the picking pattern might be difficult given the limited space between pairs. (On Edit: I just messed with it on the new guitar. Not as hard as I feared. It will be a 12 string piece.(
I'm going to close mic with a AKG 416, a Shure pencil condenser mic at 4 to 5 feet (the low E has around a 9 foot wave & I'll do tests to minimize phasing), & I'm plugging the guitar in direct. So, recording to 3 channels.
Right now, I'm thinking a bit of reverb on the mic channels & a chorus reverb on the direct, with that being lower in the mix.
I've never done detailed miking of acoustic before, so it should be interesting.

[Eko]

9. I would use the AKG and the shure both with close miking. One towards the soundhole and the other towards the bridge. Or

at least try that switching the mics. Just make sure they are not in phase. What DAW and interface are you using? I used a Shure SM81 on a acoustic recording one time and really liked that, believe I used that as a close with two earthworks as far. I picked up a warm audio WA87a2 but have not had time to use it yet.
Eko.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. I've Got A Tascam...

...16 track direct to hard drive console. All the A/Ds are internal. I don't recall the specs.
It records at 48.4kHz, 16 bit. That part I remember.
I'm going to stick with distant miking to start because I want to see if room sound helps.
The DI will give me crispness & texture.
If it doesn't work, I'll try your double close mic idea.
I've gone through the trouble of multi miking a piano. Having a mic 8 or 10 feet away made a difference. That was, however, the 6th mic. Big PITA. If I record piano now, I just use digital. Not as good, but way simpler. I'm not recording a magnum opus. Just messing around

[Eko]

13. Is it a Tascam 16 that is less than like 3 or 4 years old?

Those are great, almost got one myself. Way better for some of us older folks that like to actually turn a knob instead of navigating through menus.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. No, MinevIs Much Opder

Not sure how long ago I bought it, but we'll over 10 years.
Same basic design as the newer models, but a few less bells & whistles and a smaller operation screen.
Still easy to use, though.

[Lochloosa]

3. What he said.

[Shermann]

4. What are you going to do with the Martin?

Those have a lifetime warranty, but that could be a tough case to prove after so much time.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. Lifetime Is Lifetime

I need to register it online, first.
But, I'd think a lifetime warranty is a lifetime warranty. It's broken inside the neck. Nothing I could have done would cause that. So, it was either shipped broken or was defective in a way that made it break with no external force.
In the meantime, I'll set it up for slide.

[Shermann]

7. Overtightening the truss rod can snap it like that

So, you'd have to convince them somehow that you didn't do that.

[ProfessorGAC]

8. Yeah, I Suppose

Puts them in the cat bird seat. I can't prove I never touched the rod, even though I haven't until the day I found it wasn't connected to anything.

[SoFlaJet]

19. I had a Takemine 12 string

https://www.zzounds.com/item--TAKGJ72CE12?siid=226865&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiApuCrBhAuEiwA8VJ6JiY0Gr6kidLX4RF1i3QPlfkKmCkxOzzdslP75BPjKS1DgoGeMt6WKxoCo6wQAvD_BwE

Looked a lot like this and it was hard to play, so I kept trying to lower the action until one day I went. just...a...lit..tle...bit.....mo...re....and THWANG!!!!CLONK!!!!!#!&**>>%!@ I snapped the truss rod. I brought it over to a pawn shop for a loan-in south Florida..

[rubbersole]

6. Martin repaired the peeling pick guard on my '44 O-18...

..at no cost (I paid shipping to get it there) in the mid '80s. I always assumed they had a lifetime warranty. But things change in 40 years.

[Eko]

10. This is the attempting to be theory nerd in me

Why wouldnt the Asus9 not be just called a Asus2. Its the exact same notes but seems more complicated. Of course that is why they call it "theory" right lol,

[ProfessorGAC]

12. Fair Question

I was taught that the 9th was added after a dominant 7, and if the seventh if not present is a sus9. Or a Maj9.
Like adding an F# to an A7, where the 7th is internal (on piano). So, G, A, C#, E, F#. Since the dom7 is there, we call it a 13. Leave out the G, it's A6. That's how I was taught anyway.
But, calling it a Sus2 would mean the same darned thing. So, we probably can do whichever we like best.

[Eko]

14. Ha Ha

I would call taking the 7th out and adding a 9 while keeping the 3rd would be a triangle9. You actually draw a triangle, it just means using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and adding the 9th so a major triad with a 9th. Or CMaj add 9 or like you said CMaj9. CMaj7 add 9 would be the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th. You wouldnt say CMa7 add 2 because of the presence of the 3rd. For a SUS chord you are either a sus2 or a sus4, sus means suspended and in both cases you suspend the 3rd or in normal talk you take out the 3rd and add either the 2 or the 4th instead. You dont do any other notes, or really numbers. Using C as our key the notes are C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E and it goes on forever in that pattern. The C is the 1st, D the second, E the third, and on. When you get to a higher note like the second C that is either the eight or the one, depending on what you want. So the D is both a 2 and a 9. If you have a third which is like one of the superstar notes because it denotes whether you are major or minor and you add the 9 or 2 you don't want to say 2 because superstar 3rd gets very jealous. It feels like you dont appreciate it. So you say 9th. That is the 1st note, 3rd note, maybe the fifth cause he's like Mark Ruffalo and while it might work out better it might not. I kid. Mark rocks. But, the 5th is not necessary and since it doesnt say 7 there is no 7th then you add the 9th. That is CMaj9. Or C triangle 9. For sus you take out the 3rd. Csus2 means it just the 1st, 2nd, and Mark Ruffalo where if you add the 7th Mark is not needed and would be 1st, 2nd, and 7th. Sus4 same idea, 1st, 4th and Mark or if 7th is added you can take out Hulk. Im sure this is all confusing as it is theory but at this point I have to run because I'm pretty sure Hulk is going to kick my ass.
Eko.
PS, anytime you want to talk theory I am happy to. Thanks!!!

[ProfessorGAC]

16. I'll Play!

Let's see how we would interpret this & see if they match.
Let's just go to 2nd fret and just fret the 3rd & 4th string.
Notes would be E A E A B E.
Whatcha think we should call this?
Another one: playing only the middle four strings I fret the 2nd, 3rd & 4th strings at;
3,4,4>>>>>3,3,4>>>>>3,2,4 but all using the open A. Then resolve to E major.
Notes would be F#, B, D>>>>>>F, B,D>>>>>E,B,D, but the low A is always there.
I know what I'd call those three chords. Let's see your take. I'm guessing there's no way we'd call the first one differently.

[Eko]

18. Ha HA.

E A E A B E
5 1 5 1 2 5 Key of A so Asus2 since there is no third.
1 4 1 4 5 1 Key of E so Esus4 since there is no third again.
4 b7 4 b7 1 4 Key of B,. I would not call that anything.
Key of B
F# B D A 5 5 1 b3 b7 Bmin7
F B D A b5 1 b3 b7 B Half Dim
E B D A 4 1 b3 b7 Bmin7 11
Go to EMaj which is E G# A and you end on the 4th chord of the key which is B.
You are doing a 1-4 chord movement Dropping the 5th each time chromatically to get to the 1st of the 4th chord from F# to F to E then resolve on the fourth chord.
Im pretty stoned but I think I got it correct.


Nope Key of A
On thinking I believe its a 2 to 5 chord movement in the key of A Dropping the 5th each time chromatically of the 2 chord to get to the 1st of the 5th chord from F# to F to E then resolve on the fifth chord. It would make more sense as Bmin is not a 1 chord and you Usually would not sub the 1 chord to a minor. The 2-5 movement is much more common and if you go to the one or AMaj then you have a classic Jazz progression of 2-5-1
Thats better.
Eko.

[highplainsdem]

17. What an incredible buy! I'm sorry your Martin had to have been defective when shipped, and I hope they'll

repair it for free.

But what fantastic serendipity, to have taken it to that store just when they had that Carvin Cobalt 980 there.

I imagine the new guitar will make this an even happier Thanksgiving for you, with more to be thankful for.