New America Base

[Dodgy]

So guys lets get serious on this forum and start talking about things that matter. How do people see this announcement for US troops occupying a section of Darwin??

[Violet_Crumble]

1. It's a bad move, imo...

The US has decided to turn its attention to our region after its ever-so successful attempts to impose democracy and freedom on the Middle East. I can't see where this is in the best interests of Australia, but can see that it's in the best interests of a fading hegemonic super-power to let out a few last fading pants of power. I recall when this announcement was made and I pointed out there was nothing in it for us as we weren't under any threat, someone posted (and they were totally serious) that Indonesia's a threat and could invade us so that's why we need the Americans here to protect us, coz we're just not capable of protecting ourselves...

[Dodgy]

2. Its all about China

Yeah that line about Indonesia is absolute bollocks and just highlights the xenophobic underbelly of this nation.

How ridiculous. Indonesia is not a economic threat to Aust or the US. China is a rising power and the US is counting on its military muscle to dominate China’s vital shipping routes for energy and raw materials from the Middle East and Africa through key choke points—above all the Malacca Strait—to the South China Sea. These plans recall the way in which the US exploited its naval power to impose an oil blockade on Japan in 1941, triggering a chain of events that led to the Pacific War.

Oh and that narrative that the US had thoughts of democracy on thier minds during shock and awe is really really laughable at best.

[Matilda]

3. Of course it's about China.

We're just pawns in the big game.

China's going to end up owning more of Australia than we do anyway, by buying into companies and by acquiring prime farming land. They don't have to invade with ships and armies.

[Lasher]

4. This is not the first time there's been a US base at Darwin.

My American father served aboard a diesel sub that sailed out of Darwin to attack the Japanese, mostly around the Philippines. He got R&R there between War Patrols. He spoke fondly of your country. I hope you Aussies (or mostly by now, your ancestors) felt OK about his presence back then.

Not to say it's the same thing now. As an American, I want US bases on foreign soil closed. And I certainly am not in favor of opening up any new ones.

[Matilda]

5. My father was in the Merchant Navy

and he told us decades ago that there were American submarine patrols off Darwin, and had been since the war, but the public were never told.

They're quite possibly still there. There's a lot we're not told.

[SwissTony]

6. The US lost some ships and planes during the bombing of Darwin

Last edited Tue Jan 17, 2012, 06:17 AM - Edit history (1)

From Wiki...

Eight ships were sunk in Darwin Harbour:

USS Peary, a United States Navy destroyer
USAT Meigs, a large US Army troop transport ship
Two Australian passenger ships, being used as merchant troop transports:
MV Neptuna
Zealandia
HMAS Mavie, a Royal Australian Navy patrol boat
SS Mauna Loa, a 5,436-ton US merchant freighter[33]
MV British Motorist (1924), a UK-registered merchant refuelling oiler[34]
Kelat, a 1,849-ton coal storage hulk[35]

Among the ships damaged but not destroyed was a hospital ship, AHS Manunda.[36] The USS William B. Preston which had already departed Darwin was attacked at sea and docked at Derby, Western Australia

The USAAF lost ten P-40s, one LB-30 bomber, and three C-45 transport planes. The US Navy lost three PBY Catalina flying boats and moorers outside the harbour. The RAAF lost six Lockheed Hudsons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A couple of years ago, one of the survivors of the Peary returned to Darwin. He was given a very warm welcome.

Edited to remove a typo.

[Lasher]

7. That Darwin attack occurred on 19 February 1942.

Most of the attacking Japanese planes in that raid came from Hiryū, Sōryū, Akagi and Kaga. These were the same four enemy carriers that we sent to the bottom during the Battle of Midway in early June of that same year. My father's submarine, the USS Nautilus (SS-168), was involved in that battle. She was based out of Pearl Harbor at that time.

My father first joined her crew at Pearl Harbor on 29 May 1944, when they sailed from there to Brisbane, and proceeded north on the boat's ninth War Patrol. Nautilus would launch her remaining five War Patrols out of Darwin, which was closer to Japanese positions in the Philippines.

Edit to add photo:

[ellisonz]

8. OP is PPR by Skinner: "Newbie North Korea apologist."

[pink]

9. Initially I was reasonably comfortable about the US troops in Darwin

but since then, I have had my reservations. It doesn't seem so scary when people like Obama are running the US. However, after watching the Republican Primaries and seeing their wacko candidates and followers, it does give food for thought if any of them end up running their country.

[peakhillfm]

10. Mentioned when Pres was in Aussie

Last time there was a mention was when Barack Obama visited Aussie back late last year,BUT gee there has been alot of water run under the bridge (so as to speak) and I dont know whether there has been any more mention about it.
We have had a challenge and the Foreign Minister has been dethrowned,we have had heaps of things happen here and I dont think that there has been any more mention about it,or not that there has been any media mention about it,BUT again,it may have slipped under the radar.........
I am not even prepared to email and ask my local Federal member as he is not a Labor member and is also like many other Lib/NCP members a complete PIG.....
All I can say is watch this space.........................................

here is a link to look at www.smh.com.au/national/obama-to-send-marines-to-darwin-20111116-1njd7.html


This will give you all you need.

[foreigncorrespondent]

11. I was just talking...

...to a friend this morning about a lot of different things that are happening here at the minute, and we both feel we have been sold out to America. That Australia just isn't Australia anymore.

We are both against this military base being set up. Talk about bringing trouble to our door step. Don't those in the government remember the bombing of Darwin during WWII? Things are gonna get a lot worse for us now.

[Matilda]

12. There was a feeling post-WWII that the U.S. had saved our arses from the Japanese,

and it was true. Churchill didn't give a toss about Australia; his concerns were all about Europe. That's why the Brits were ordered to surrender at Singapore, and nobody was more surprised than the Japanese.

And subsequently, Australian governments realised they couldn't really afford to build up our defences to what they need to be, and it was much easier to rely on the U.S. But that means we don't ask questions, just follow orders.

[foreigncorrespondent]

13. Yes...

...when I was there I heard "if it wasn't for us you would all be talking Japanese now" comments a lot.

And the only reasons things where like that during WWII is because the Brits had out guys fighting everywhere else, and the Australian homeland was left defenseless.

I recently watched a documentary on the bombing of Darwin, and the Aussie boys that were there (which wasn't all that many) really had nothing to fight with, but they did their best. So when I think about WWII are the bombing of Darwin now, and how the yanks saved our asses, I also like to think that the boys we still had here had a huge hand in that as well.

Sadly though, you are right, we must follow orders.

[Matilda]

14. Read some of the stories about the POWs in Changi,

and they teach us a lot about raw courage. The Aussies were the pre-eminent survivors - resourceful, courageous, and daring.

My late father-in-law was a guest of the Japanese during the war, so I made a point of reading up about it. He was a pom, but he had the greatest respect for the Aussie soldiers.

[foreigncorrespondent]

15. I have read a lot...

...but have also watched some excellent documentaries in the last few years via history channel, and our boys are really something to be proud of.