Is Canada's democracy on the brink of collapse?

[Fiendish Thingy]

Hyperbole? Perhaps, perhaps not.

When a small (a few hundred) well organized, well funded (*cough* ElonMusk *cough*) mob of anti-democracy thugs with heavy trucks can occupy and terrorize Canada’s capital for two weeks, and cripple cross-border commerce, without consequences (oh sure, there’s an injunction against horn honking, and a lawsuit, yet, the chaos continues), what does that say about the strength and stability of Canada’s democracy?

Local officials state they cannot direct the police response (who does control law enforcement?)

The police say they don’t have the resources to handle the crisis.

Doug Ford twiddles his thumbs.

Justin Trudeau expresses Susan-Collins-level of concern in a speech scolding the “protestors”.

Canadian media give polite bothsiderism coverage to the occupation (“residents can’t sleep, shop, or work, but the small minority of unvaccinated truckers do have a valid point to make”).

Maxim Bernier’s ultra-right People’s Party of Canada (PPC) got around 5% of the vote nationwide in last fall’s election, and didn’t win a single seat in Parliament, yet they are the loudest voice in this debate right now. The tyranny of the minority is alive and well in Canada.

What would the response be if ISIS, the Proud Boys, or Putin decided they wanted to cripple Canada’s economy and block law abiding truckers from cross border commerce? This disruptive chaos is Steve Brannon’s wet dream, and I’m sure he and his gang are learning well how to astroturf the next insurrection.

This was a complete failure on the part of Canada’s intelligence agencies to anticipate the potential impact of this convoy, which was planned for months.

Two provinces have already acquiesced to the terrorists’ demands and lifted all COVID restrictions; more are sure to follow. Will Trudeau cave and lift the vaccine requirements for cross border truckers?

Supposedly, Parliament is set to “debate” proposed responses to the crisis…too little, too late.

If Trudeau won’t take immediate steps to end this tyranny of the minority, including calling up the military through the Emergencies Act, then IMO NDP leader Jagmeet Singh should call a vote of No Confidence and force a new election.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. No. Please don't post a nonsense hypothesis. . . . nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

4. Feel free to refute any perceived "nonsense". largest US/Can border crossing is currently blocked

Without any deterrence by law enforcement- is that nonsense?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Well, first off, you indulge in binary, all or nothing, black or white thinking, which is very flawe

"Without any deterrence".

That is false.

Think first, then post.

[Fiendish Thingy]

12. Did the police/border patrol attempt to stop the blockade of the Ambassador bridge?

All reports I’ve seen indicate there was no preventative action taken by law enforcement, and responses after the fact have been extremely limited, beyond giving tickets.

[Lovie777]

2. Hell No . ..

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

3. In simple terms, no.

See Oka crisis, go a few more years back to the fun times with the FLQ.

These fine truckers are financed by the fascist US right, their leaders are the maverick party, before that they were weexit, a fascist right party that wants to separate from Canada. 2 years ago they pulled the same stunt, different outrage, same formula for financing...

Look familiar?

Feb 19, 2019
Large convoy of trucks arrives in Ottawa to protest federal government
A pipeline protest convoy of hundreds of trucks is expected to arrive in Ottawa in the morning and make its way to Parliament Hill. This to protest the federal government's policies on the oil industry. The convoy includes members of the Yellow Vest Movement which has widely varying agendas from supporting pipelines to denouncing a United Nations compact on global migration.

Warning: Live stream is as oncoming. May include language that some people may not be suitable for all viewers. Discretion advised.

[Fiendish Thingy]

7. The 2019 convoy was just a dress rehearsal for this one

The 2019 convoy didn’t block $400 million/day worth of commerce, or terrorize the capital for two weeks.

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

8. As I said....these klowns are pikers compared to...

The Front de libération du Québec[a] (FLQ) was a militant Quebec separatist group.[3][4] Founded in the early 1960s with the aim of establishing an independent and socialist Quebec through violent means, the FLQ was considered a terrorist group by the Canadian government.[5][6] It conducted a number of attacks between 1963 and 1970,[7][8] which totaled over 160 violent incidents and killed eight people and injured many more.[8][9] These attacks culminated with the Montreal Stock Exchange bombing in 1969 and the October Crisis in 1970, the latter beginning with the kidnapping of British Trade Commissioner James Cross. In the subsequent negotiations, Quebec Labour Minister Pierre Laporte was kidnapped and murdered by a cell of the FLQ. Public outcry and a federal crackdown subsequently ended the crisis and resulted in a drastic loss of support for the FLQ, with a small number of FLQ members being granted refuge in Cuba.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_de_lib%C3%A9ration_du_Qu%C3%A9bec

The October Crisis (French: Crise d'Octobre) refers to a chain of events that started in October 1970 when members of the Front de libération du Québec (FLQ) kidnapped the provincial Deputy Premier Pierre Laporte and British diplomat James Cross from his Montreal residence. These events saw the Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau invoking the War Measures Act for the first time in Canadian history during peacetime.

The Premier of Quebec, Robert Bourassa, and the Mayor of Montreal, Jean Drapeau, supported Trudeau's invocation of the War Measures Act, which limited civil liberties and granted the police far-reaching powers, allowing them to arrest and detain 497 people. The Government of Quebec also requested military aid to support the civil authorities, with Canadian Forces being deployed throughout Quebec.

Although negotiations led to Cross's release, Laporte was murdered by the kidnappers. The crisis affected the province of Quebec, Canada, especially the metropolitan area of Montreal, and ended on December 28.

At the time opinion polls in Quebec and throughout Canada showed widespread support for the usage of the War Measures Act. The response was criticized by prominent politicians such as René Lévesque and Tommy Douglas.

After the crisis, movements that pushed for electoral votes as a means to attain autonomy and independence grew stronger. At the time, support also grew for the sovereignist political party known as Parti Québécois, which formed the provincial government in 1976.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis


The Oka Crisis (French: Crise d'Oka),[8][9][10] also known as the Kanesatake Resistance,[1][11][12] was a land dispute between a group of Mohawk people and the town of Oka, Quebec, Canada, which began on July 11, 1990, and lasted 77 days until September 26, 1990, with two fatalities. The dispute was the first well-publicized violent conflict between First Nations and the Canadian government in the late 20th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. Why wait until it gets as bad as The previous crises? Nt

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

14. The biggest problem is Rob Ford.

The Canadian trump, who is the Premier of Ontario, who has twiddled his thumbs & done nothing. The feds can't do much unless they are asked by the Solicitor General of Ford's Ontario gov to enact section 275 of the National Defense act... requesting military support in "aid of the civil power". Ford won't do that, as it would greatly upset his supporters.

The army has the capability of using heavy lift wreckers to remove the trucks. Tow truck companies, even those under contract to the City of Ottawa have refused to assist, as they fear a loss of biz from the truckers.

The other solution is to send in swat teams, arrest those who refuse to get out of their trucks & use Ottawa Transpo's (municipal transit) heavy lift wreckers to tow the trucks to an impound yard. I think this is the solution they are looking at as they have brought in the Children's Aid Society as it's claimed 25% of the trucks have kids in them.

[C_U_L8R]

5. A pestilence won't go away with wishful thinking.

Canadians are too darn nice. They need to do something.

[Spazito]

9. What a load of codswallop...

Singh is not going to force a new election, it would be seen as opportunistic which it would be, imo. This is not a situation that requires the Emergencies Act. There are multiple border crossings still wide open for international traffic and as for your supposition that provinces are lifting COVID restrictions, they are being done incrementally and that would be happening even if the rabid right 'convoy' didn't exist.

[Fiendish Thingy]

10. 25-30% of all cross border commerce moves across the Ambassador bridge

How many border closings are acceptable to you?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. How many Jan6 are acceptable to you? Did you post US democracy on brink of collapse Jan 2017 & Jan6?

[Fiendish Thingy]

20. My position on the fragility of US democracy is easily researched in my past posts on DU.

The situation in Canada is an acute crisis that is not being competently addressed.

[Spazito]

19. How many border crossings are there?

In doing a quick search there are over 100 land border crossings and only two are being impacted.

Two border crossings being impacted by 'protesters' does not qualify as "Canada's democracy being on the brink of collapse" in any way, shape or form, imo.

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. It is the inaction of leadership that puts Canada's democracy at risk

If our leaders are not willing to defend the rights of the majority from the tyranny of the minority, then what good is democracy?

Right now, the Foreign funded fascist mob is in charge- how is that Democratic?

The Ambassador bridge handles 8,000 trucks a day - which of the other border crossings has that capacity?

[Spazito]

23. You do know there are 4 big crossings from Michigan to Ontario, right?

Michigan has four land border crossings along the 721 miles it shares with Ontario, all of which are extremely busy (top 10 highest volume crossings between the two countries). These crossings are Sault Ste. Marie International Bridge, Blue Water Bridge, Detroit Windsor Tunnel, and Ambassador Bridge.

As you can see there are other major crossings available and open right now.

Here is a list of the various land border crossing between Canada and the US, you might find it informative:

https://www.canadaduientrylaw.com/border-crossings.php

[Fiendish Thingy]

24. And how would 8,000 more truck a day impact these crossings?

And what if the thugs target those major crossings next? Should leadership continue to wring their hands and shrug helplessly?

You seem to feel this insurrection is no big deal…why wait until things get even worse?

[Spazito]

26. The point is the trucks have options...

They have known about the problem for a few days now so no doubt they have chosen other crossings by now.

I am not a fan of this 'protest' at all and the two provinces, both having Con premiers, need to act but to want to bring in the military under the Emergencies Act is ridiculous and to even consider whether "Canada's democracy is on the brink of crisis" is beyond ridiculous, imo.

[Fiendish Thingy]

28. I guess astroturf insurrections are no big deal

Until they are.

[Spazito]

29. Hyperbole definitely gets Canadians on board...

or not.

[Fiendish Thingy]

13. Alberta lifted all COVID restrictions in one fell swoop last night. Saskatchewan to follow.

While other provinces are moving incrementally, some are capitulating completely.

[Spazito]

16. The decisions being made would have been made without the convoy...

there has been discussion of when, not if, to lift some of the restrictions well before the 'truckers' took to the road.

How do you explain some northern blue States also lifting some of their restrictions, there are not trucker convoys in their States yet they, too, are transitioning from the pandemic stage to the endemic stage.

As to using Alberta and Saskatchewan as your examples, well, they are hard core Con provinces and not reflective of the rest of Canada and even they have made the point that if hospitalizations increase the restrictions will be put back in place.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Yes, codswallop. In any case, "a new election" is not a collapse of democracy. OP stranger to logic.

[Spazito]

18. Very true...

it is just not politically smart to force one now while the Cons have no leader. It might have been okay if we hadn't just gone through one recently already. Another one so soon would be seen as politically motivated and that's never a good look, imo.

[Fiendish Thingy]

22. How much anarchy is too much for you? Nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

25. Your conclusion, "a new election", is not anarchy. Most consider elections hallmark of democracy.nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

27. You seriously misunderstand my position- it's not that a new election would be anarchy

It’s that the current occupation/blockade/insurrection IS anarchy, and if the current government is unwilling/incapable of addressing the crisis, it should be dissolved and a government with the resolve to confront this crisis should be elected.

You seem to think I am advocating FOR anarchy, when I am advocating for government intervention AGAINST anarchy.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. You write there is pending "collapse" of democracy & then propose an anarchic election

Stop it. I do not think you are "advocating FOR anarchy" and never wrote anything remotely resembling that.

I think you

1) Over dramatize the situation: "brink of collapse".

2) Indulge in binary mode thinking: "complete failure", "acquiesced", "without any deterrence".

3) Mischaracterize posters writing through lack of comprehension (other alternative is purposely which I don't believe): "How many closings acceptable to you", "I guess astroturf insurrections are no big deal", "How much anarchy is too much for you".

4) You may be an American (US citizen).

5) Haven't thought through to realize just how destabilizing and anarchic an emotional election would be.


Don't you realize that forcing an election now would destabilize things more than anything people are doing or not doing regarding this crisis?

Why would you even suggest such a stupid idea? (idea, not you) It would destabilize because

1) It would be seen as the worst kind of opportunism while the Conservative party has only an interim leader.

2) You seem to have forgotten there was a very recent election. If I took your debating style I'd write some tripe like "You write as if you don't know there was a very recent election". I remind you, many people thought the September election was opportunistic (see pt 1).

3) An election in the middle of turmoil would be turbulent beyond belief compared to the last 100 years of elections. Stupid time to call for an election. Such an emotional election would be rife with anarchy and not characterized by sober reflection.

4) The key truckers' demand has been "Fuck Trudeau". They talk about wanting a new election. They would cheer if there was a stupid election now. To use your own phraseology, it would be Bannon's wet dream. Why would you play into their hands? Did you not think this through and arrive at this angle?

Do not give the occupiers what they want.

Again, your thesis "brink of collapse" and your proposed solution "force a new election" are nonsense.

[Fiendish Thingy]

31. I am a dual citizen who has lived in BC for 10 years

So I have a stake.

My position on Singh calling for a No Confidence vote was in the case of Trudeau continuing to mishandle this crisis. If Trudeau begins to act effectively, no election would be needed. But his administration must be held responsible for the continuation of this crisis.

I agree an election would be disruptive, but nowhere near as disruptive as the current anarchy in Ottawa and the border. I also agree that the September election was opportunistic. But the current inaction and inertia (giving out tickets hardly counts as action) are not a viable option.

As I type this, the minister of safety and other ministers are speaking to the press and public, engaging in some retroactive CYA, and finally appearing to take the situation as seriously as it deserves.

Perhaps we are about hear some news about a new course of action- let’s hope so.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. Do not give the occupiers what they want: "a new election". It is nonsense to suggest one. . . . nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

33. Do you agree Trudeau must be pressured to act boldly to end the crisis?

Short of calling a new election?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. The truckers are praying for "bold action"

There is more to the situation than meets the eye.

Did you hear the interview on the Current on CBC with the two political scientist women, I think yesterday, but maybe this morning. I think it was The Current where they identified three key organizers who have hard right racist anti-democratic agendas. This is not about mandates.

Found it: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-63-the-current/clip/15894130-the-people-involved-ottawa-protest-its-global-impact

What are the different groups and perspectives making up the Ottawa protest, and what impact is it having around the world? Matt Galloway talks to Stephanie Carvin, a former national security analyst; and Ruth Ben-Ghiat, an expert on extremist movements. Feb. 9

So "bold action" is emotionally satisfying but may or may not be best, even if I've posted some slightly wild action authorities could take that would definitely be bold.

Do not give the organizers and their trucker minions what they want.

[Fiendish Thingy]

35. The organizers currently have a platform for free media and fundraising

Which only strengthens their ability to further disrupt the country.

What’s happening now is not a good example of Peace, Order and Good Government.