Anybody here into credit card churning?

[DJ Porkchop]

This is an excellent way to make massive free points for travel by signing up for premium credit cards.
Make no mistake, there is no debt here. This game is for those who pay off their cards in full every month.
The travel benefits are out of this world, because points can be leveraged through travel partners.
This is not using cashback cards for 1% returns. ROI can hit 4-5x for the best at the game.

I don't travel that much, but I would like to, if it was free. So far, I applied for three cards last year, flew domestically for free, incurred a total of $259 in annual fees, and still have 150,000 points to burn. There are many threads on Reddit and FICO boards, zillions of YT videos, and I like the action. I turned my mother onto it, and now she is booking a flight to Europe (for a Reine cruise with a friend) for $0.

I used to have sucky credit. But by staying out of the game, it healed. Now I have five cards total, with a credit limit of almost $40,000. I used to have a credit score that sucked, but now I am "qualified". Game on!

Anyone else?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

1. My wife and I just paid off all our cards

We got an inheritance and we’re able to clear out debt. We have one card with mileage, and one with cashback for dining - those will be our go-to cards for day-to-day use and paying them off. I’ll need to check online for more info.

[DJ Porkchop]

9. I'd be happy to show you what I've learned.

I'm satisfied you get a good return on dining, but there could be major payoffs. Want to see more from your spend?

[walkingman]

2. Sounds like too much work to me and seems like it could affect your credit?

[3Hotdogs]

3. While I don't encourage the practice, it wouldn't hurt credit if it is payed off every month.

The fallacy is with the amount of money you would have to spend on "stuff" that you wouldn't normally want or need in order to earn the points.


My cousin got into this. "I've got to spend $xxx by February 10th in order to get the $200 from the bank." Keep in mind that many merchants are charging 3% for using the credit card.

He might be better off just saving the money he is spending.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

4. In my case I hadn't thought to buy stuff to make sure we got cashback

My thinking is that I’d use the credit card for anything I’d normally use my debit card. Weekly groceries, gas, that sort of thing. Then pay off the card. The key really is being disciplined enough to make sure it’s paid off monthly.

[DJ Porkchop]

11. Exactly. Now, what are you getting back for your loyalty?

Major banks love that you're not leveraging any of that to get something more back.

[NoRethugFriends]

6. It can be a way to save tons of money

on airfare, motels, and cards that give you a percentage back on your spending

[DJ Porkchop]

12. +1

[Happy Hoosier]

23. I travel fequently for work....

And while my company will book and pay for stuff directly if I want, they give me the option of making my own arrangments (within the rules) and get reimbursed.

By doing that, and participating in teh various individual rewards programs, it's remarkable how much you can get. My wife and I like travel, and you can get a ton of value from points traveling, but even just using the the cash back feature can offer significant savings.

So yeah, it's kinda awesome.

I was reluctant at first.... my parents were terrible with money and always maxxed out their cards.

And I naturally followed suit initially. I finally dug myself out of debt last year. We're just getting started in the reawrds card game... and it still makes me feel nervous, but so far, so good. I just ALWAYS check both my bank account and the current balance on the card before making a big purchase to make sure I can pay it off.

Of course, I also have the option of using the card for emergencies if an expense exceeds my emergency fund, but I REALLY want to avoid that if I can! But if I do, at least I'll get some points for it!

[Happy Hoosier]

21. That's not really a fallacy, though... just bad decision making from some.

The "spend requirements" are all up front. Just make sure your normal, everyday spending needs plus expected large expenses are enough to satisfy the spend requirements. I am currently working two spend requirements. A simple $500 in 3 months for a $200 bonus, and a $4000 over 3 months requirement for a lot of travel points.

The $500 requirement is a no-brainer. 3 trips to the grocery store, that's done. And this card has a bonus for groceries in the first year, where I get a massive bonus on grocery shopping so I get 6.5% on groceries.

The $4000 is more, of course, but by just putting stuff that I already have autopayed on my debit card, I have most of that covered already. And since I travel for work every few weeks, the rest is easy-peasy.

In short, don't take on a spend requirement that you can't cover either with ongoing normal spending, or if you have a previously planned large expenditure (taxes, appliance, trip, etc)

[NoRethugFriends]

25. Manufactured Spending!

[NoRethugFriends]

5. Doesn't hurt your credit at all

if you pay off each month. Actually good for your credit if you are using only a small percentage of your available credit.

[DJ Porkchop]

13. The goal is to get your utilization down to 1%.

Then they just want to give you more credit. So your next card gets a massive boost to the limit which furthers your low utilization.

[DJ Porkchop]

10. My credit has improved as I've gone through this.

The banks want to see this engagement.

[Happy Hoosier]

19. Apparently does NOT hurt credit.... in fact, the opposite in the long term.

After years of struggling with the Demon Debt, my wife and I are debt free, excluding the house (and THAT is paid off in a little more than 3 years).

I travel a lot for work, and have a credit card I use for that travel, and pay it off when the company reimburses me in a couple weeks.

I went on a trip with my boss who travels a LOT more than me, and he noticed I was paying with a crappy 1% cash back card, and he was like... "if you have to travel, you might as well benefit from it" So he introduced me to the using travel credit cards in a system.

You can really benefit from getting new cards because they often offer crazy rewards. If you like to travel, you can take a trip on almost all points every couple of years, apparently. My wife and I are doing our first "points trip" this summer.

Opening new cards isn't a problem, so long as you understand the rules of the individual companies and how the credit scores work.

For credit score, the hit comes from "hard enquiries." This is the hard credit check companies make when you open the card. These affect your score by 3-10 points per enquiry. But the effect is relatively short. It pretty much fades after 6 months. If you otherwise have good-excellent credit, ine of these every few months isn;t an issue.

But getting a new credit card can actually LOWER your debt usage ratio, which will boost your score over time, so long as you don;t load up the new card. Other cards can sit idle without hurting your scredit. Some companies will let credit sit idle forever. Some (like Chase) will close accounts that are idle after a couple of years, so keep en eye on that. That can suddenly lower your available credit and increase usage rates. That can ping you.

Some individual comanies have rules too... Chase is the most "infamouse" with their 5/24 rules. If you've opened 5 or more credit cards in the last 24 months, they will automatically deny your application regardless of your credit score or income. Amex is pretty generous with accepting applications, but have their own limits for cards, etc.

Of course the key to doing all this effectively is to not pay the credit card companies interest! Use the CC like a debit card... only buy what you could afford with cash (emergencies aside... but even then, an emergency fund is better)

[unc70]

7. I play this game a little

I have a couple of credit cards that earn miles. I got a new one about a year ago affiliated with AA and collected a bunch of signup miles. I travel some and earn credit card AA miles when I do. I haven't changed my travel or buying habits, but have gained a lot of extra AA miles and platinum status in their frequent flyer program.

There is a free newsletter and a web site from The Points Guys which delves into the details on how to optimize the value of airline and hotels points/miles.

[DJ Porkchop]

14. TPG is a great resource.

https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/reasons-for-multiple-credit-cards/

AA miles are premium especially for flying domestic. It's so hard to rack these up. Does platinum status give you access to the Admirals Club? Have you used it?

I used my Capital One Venture card for access to the DFW Capital lounge for three hours last year and it was spectacular.

[unc70]

17. Admirals Club included with Platinum Pro, but not Platinum

Before I retired, I often traveled 120-150 days a year. I had an A C membership then. These days, I am often flying international business class which includes lounge access. The ACs are very nice, very appreciated when there are delays.

My friend has Priority Pass through her Chase Reserve cc. PP lounges are also very nice and are scattered around the world. Handy when plans are disrupted. For example, when our direct flight from Venice to Lisbon was cancelled and we were rerouted through Rome with delays along the way.

I'm fairly old (75) and try to make travel as easy as is feasible within my budget.

[Happy Hoosier]

22. My home airport only has a Delta lounge....

.... but it DOES have a restaurant that accpet Priority Pass. It's nice to grab a quick bite before the flight, or during a delay.

[DJ Porkchop]

8. My credit score is 730+

And my credit report, which is what the banks use to evaluate me, is also respectable.

The trick is to leverage that good report to get approval for cards that accentuate my experience and standing.
There is no harm, I believe, in using the banks' goodwill to crush the advantages I get from their free points.

I have mapped out the next 5 years in building an ultimate setup, and achieving an above-average return.

It's a neat side hustle for the future. Someday I may leave this country and not come back...

[Happy Hoosier]

24. I'm following a similar path....

As I was digging out of the credit card hole, I didn't really realize how good top-end rewards cards have gotten.... so long as you use them as cash proxies.

As I said, my boss pointed out that a lot of travel perks he flashes aren't just because he's wealthy (though he is... or at least compared to most people). It's that he travels enough for those high annual fee cards to make sense. I used to blanche at cards charging $500-$600 annual fees. I mean, that's nuts, right? Well, not if you travel a lot, right? And I do. Further, a lot of the travel I make is on behalf of my company, so I don't even pay (ultimately) for the spending that that makes the card a positive value proposition.

Still feels like cheating. Just getting used to the idea that you get the most benefits when you don't actually need them (at least as compared to when I was struggling).... 'Murica.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

15. No. I do pay my credit card off every month.

I don't get credits, or miles, or anything else. I just have the peace of mind in knowing that the debt is paid.

My credit score at the moment is 813. It ranges a bit below and above that number.

I rarely fly. I'm a former airline employee, and remember quite well what travel was like back in the somewhat distant past. The rare times that I do fly these days, I always book a first class seat. For one thing, I don't want to be crammed into the horror they call coach these days. For another, I long ago learned that if I planned far enough in advance, I could get a first class seat at a price I was willing to pay. Granted, it was probably not the cheapest possible seat, but it was first class.

In recent years I prefer to take Amtrak, which I've done several times, from New Mexico to Kansas City. I book a sleeper car, which includes meals, a lot of privacy. Since I book a roomette, a very small room that supposedly is good for two people, although I'd hate to share it, and I try very hard to get a roomette on the lower level of the sleeping car, which gives me much more privacy than I'd have upstairs, I just love Amtrak. I've had the occasion to take it about four times recently, from Lamy, NM (a bit south of Santa Fe where I live) to Union Station in Kansas City. (Bonus question: Why are so many train stations in this country called Union Stations?




Okay, I'll tell you. It's because in the beginning of trains in this country, each and every train company had its own station. At some point, different train companies realized there was a better way to do this. So they got together, pooled their stations, which they now called "Union Stations". How cool is that?

Back to my recent Amtrak travels. On those several trips I took the train to Kansas City, where my sister picked me up and we drove to the Washington DC area to help our older brother and his wife clear out their hoarded home and get into assisted living. Sigh. It took three trips and well over a year to do this. I am now adamant that people need to understand they cannot stay in their homes forever, they must realize they need to get rid of stuff, move on, go into an independent/assisted living place.

[DJ Porkchop]

16. I would love if everyone booked Business or First Class.

And I love how you book roomettes on Amtrak. You really know how to travel. Not all of us are former airline employees, but you know how to go.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

18. Thank you.

My very first trip as an airline employee was from Washington DC to Tucson, AZ, my former home town. I was not yet 21, flying first class, and cheerfully drinking alcohol. I was not only young, but I looked a lot younger than I was. Around the time the flight attendant poured me my third drink, she asked, "Does your father fly for us?" meaning was my father one of their pilots, because she clearly could not imagine I was an airline employee myself. "Nope," I said. "I'm a ticket agent at DCA for Mohawk Airlines."

My first international trip was to Australia, in the spring of 1970. I flew United Airlines (first class of course) from IAD (Dulles international) to Los Angeles, then Pan Am from Los Angeles to Sydney, Australia, with a stop in Honolulu. Back then, the planes couldn't make the entire trip from LAX or SFO to SYD without a refueling stop midway. The Pan Am employees were very aware of my status as a non-rev, meaning non revenue passenger as we weren't paying a fare. Actually, the flight on Pan Am was totally free, no service charge of any kind. There was a bit of a myth that we employees paid some kind of tax, but in reality the tickets we got usually had some kind of a service charge, sometimes were free. The Pan Am pass was completely free.

I knew that I was being spoiled. I knew that I was living almost as if I was very rich, since I was travelling around the world, first class, for free. Oh, and when I got to wherever, I got discounts on things like hotels, tours, and other stuff. On one trip to Australia when I was buying a fur coat, I somewhat jokingly asked if they gave an airline discount. Of course! was the response. Wow.

Nowadays, many decades later, I not only don't have free travel, but I have a very limited budget, like so many of us. I'm trying to work out what I call a land cruise, based a bit on two ocean cruises I have made, one in the Caribbean and one to Hawaii. My land cruise would take me from New Mexico to Chicago on the Southwest Chief. Then to Seattle on the Empire Builder. Next, the Coast Starlight to Los Angeles, and finally the Southwest Chief back to New Mexico. I'd love to be able to book a bedroom for that entire trip, but that would probably be far more money than I'm willing to pay. A roomette, especially one on the lower level, gives me the small room along with a lot of privacy. I just have to actually make the plan.

The main hitch in that plan is my two cats, although I have found a very good cat sitter.

[Happy Hoosier]

20. Interesting you posted this....

Just getting into the "travel rewards" card game. Always had a bit of a running balance since about 2010, and a few years ago, the world collapsed for me, disaster after disaster (home/auto repairs, health problems, unexpected travel, and yeah... some living beyond our means) and we were DEEP in debt. I knew we had to beat the beast, and we applied ourselves to eliminating all the debt we accrued. Which we did. I, fortunately, got a promotion at work. I also worked some overtime. ALL that extra money went into debt elimination.

But along with the promotion, came the requirement to travel more. And my boss noticed I was using an old, crusty, 1% cash-back card for travel. Over dinner, he introduced me to the "Chase Trifecta" and I have gone down the rabbit hole. Not "churning," at least not yet, but I am pulling in some points now.

[DJ Porkchop]

29. I like the offerings from Chase best.

I was gonna get the Venture X by upgrading my $95 Venture, but now I'm not so sure. While my appetite for travel is immense, I don't get around as well as I used to, certainly not at my age. I loved the lounge at DFW, but those (2) free entries from having the card go away in 2025. So now it may get downgraded.
Amex is not my cuppa tea, so I'll pass on all their offers.
Chase however has my interest. Particularly, two from the trifecta (you can guess). Maybe IHG, maybe Marriott. Got the Ink Preferred, so I can transfer to partners. But that will get downgraded when the CSP gets here.
Also, the Capital One Savor One is a killer 3% card everyone should have.

I like the signup bonuses. And I like multiples on spend, so I'm now looking at getting valuable no-fee cards to keep open for years.

Thanks for playing!

[doc03]

26. A few years ago my auto insurance went up and the insurance company

blamed my poor credit rating. They recommended that I barrow money and get a couple more
store credit cards, that would improve my credit score. At that time, I had one credit card that I
paid up every month and I didn't owe anyone a dime. I got a couple more cards and borrowed money
for a new car which I had never done before and my credit rating went up a couple hundred points.
If my insurance rates ever dropped they were canceled out by their yearly increase though.

[Submariner]

27. The comedian Kevin Hart is always hawking

this 2% cash back scheme, to make it sound like the bank card company is giving you back company profits, because you’re such a swell guy or gal.

It looks to me that the bank is running out of gimmicks, thus this cash back con. The pre-Covid system charged the vendor and buyer a couple/few percent over the cost of the item to use the card.

So now, it seems like an easy add on to charge the customer an extra couple percent, especially since price gouging following Covid, has all of us disoriented about what the price should/would be before the gouging add on to the due bill. And I may be wrong, but I feel the Wall Street work force is dominated by unethical republicans looking for the next insider trading opportunity.

The harping about the cash back scheme is kind of insulting, because it was your money in the first place.

[Happy Hoosier]

32. Cash back cards have been around since the 80's

It’s nothing new. If you have the ability and discipline to pay them every month, then you benefit. If not, ya don’t.

[kelly1mm]

28. While I do this too, in a small way, there has been criticism of this system in the past,

mainly from the left but also from more populist voices from the right.

The arguments are based on the idea that these sign-up bonuses and high cash back / points cards are benefitting the rich while the costs of these programs is being paid for by those who cannot pay their credit card fees off in full every month and thus incur very high interest charges and/or late fees.

Kind of a 'rich get richer' theme .....

[DJ Porkchop]

30. I get the criticism.

But it's Not For Everyone.
Those who cannot pay off their credit cards should not have credit cards.
When banks charge high interest for carrying balances, that's an agreed term by both parties. It's not a scam.
When times are tough, cards can get you through, but you still pay the debt when you're able.
This thread was about stacking points for travel. It's like a hobby that pays.

[Happy Hoosier]

31. I know. Guy that does the points game on a low salary...

Having a low income does not require carrying a balance. Treat the card like a debit card and there is no issue.

But putting that aside, the credit card companies still
make a profit on rewards card users that pay their balance every month. Every purchase is accompanied by swipe fees. Sure they make a higher profit from the folks who carry a balance and pay the occasional late fee, but that’s also accompanied by a higher default rate.

And so long as these cards are offered, I’ll use them. After all, if you don’t, you’re subsidizing those who do (through swipe fees passed on through higher prices).

[RoadRunner]

33. I go for cash back cards only

But I never apply for one that has annual fees. Some of mine came with cash bonuses just for opening the account. As many others above pointed out, it’s essential to pay the entire statement balance each month to avoid interest. The cash rewards are substantial. For example, 5% at Amazon, 3% for house and car insurance, 3% at Apple, and 2% for everything else. It adds up and is a wise tactic if you pay full statement balance each month.

If someone is trying to raise their credit score, it helps to pay half the statement balance on the due date and half about two weeks earlier. I don’t do that as it seems like too much hassle.