I would like to restart this group again and request to be made host.

[hrmjustin]

This discussion thread was locked by hrmjustin (a host of the Prayer Circle group).

Any objections to my asking to being made host?


My intent is to start pray threads on issues and with permission to pray for DUers who request prayers for themselves or persons they know.

We can also pray for people in the news.

This would be inclusive and have all different kinds of prayers. We can start good thoughts and vibe threads for those who don't believe here.

If you are interested in joining me in starting up this room with me just let me know.

[rug]

1. Good idea. I'd like to see this Group more active.

There's too much shaming on DU whenever prayer is mentioned.

[hrmjustin]

2. You support my being host?

[rug]

3. +1

[hrmjustin]

4. Thanks.

[MADem]

5. How many votes do you need? Here's one more if it will help. nt

[hrmjustin]

6. Thanks. i appreciate your support.

[okasha]

7. You have my vote.

[hrmjustin]

8. Thanks so much! i appreciate it.

[TexasProgresive]

9. Yes, I will subscribe and post and you have my vote as host.

[hrmjustin]

10. Thanks so much for your support.

[cbayer]

11. I support you and wish the best success in getting this going, justin.

[hrmjustin]

12. Thanks so much for your support.

[Leontius]

13. You have my support as well.

[hrmjustin]

14. Thanks so much for your support.

[kentauros]

15. You have my support and my vote as well.

I'd like to see this group have more activity, too

[hrmjustin]

16. Thanks for your support.

[Ink Man]

17. You have my vote.

James 5:16

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

Happy New Year to y'all

[hrmjustin]

18. Thank you for your support and happy new year.

[UrbScotty]

19. Great idea! You've got my vote!

[hrmjustin]

20. Thanks so much for your support.

[RoccoR5955]

21. I believe that this is a mis-statement

As there are those here who do not consider other, alternative religions legitimate.
Do these prayers have to pass a legitimacy test? Does their religion have to be recognized by certain members of the group?

I have seen in this room, just recently where an alternative religion was essentially banished from posting a blessing.
I think that people should consider that others may have religious beliefs so different from their own, that they may not seem like religious beliefs. I am not sure that there are people around here who are ready for such a thing.

[hrmjustin]

22. Mocking prayers or giving believers a hard time for praying is not appropriate here.

[RoccoR5955]

23. Well, it was done to me. TWICE in the same day!

Just because my beliefs are different from those of the mainstream, some people thought that my comments were "snarky."
People have to understand that when they do not understand something, they should not make judgements.

[hrmjustin]

24. What do you believe that is so upsetting to others?

[RoccoR5955]

29. What was so upsetting

is the fact that they do not understand the beliefs of Pastafarianism, and because, at one time it was stated to be a "parody," that it still is.
There are many followers of His Holiness, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. His images have been seen in many places. We of FAITH know that he exists, and when we die, we shall be rewarded with endless intoxication, and sexual encounters, those unlike anything we have experienced on Earth.

My religion is vastly different from mainstream religions. Why should I be persecuted, called names, and banned from these religious groups?

Am I not free in this country to believe in WHATEVER religion I choose? Am I not free in this country to practice WHATEVER religion I choose?

Apparently, there are some in this forum who don't believe so. Are they not Americans, and/or do they not understand the meaning of the First Amendment of the US Constitution?

[hrmjustin]

30. What is your view of other religions and atheism?

[RoccoR5955]

31. Hey, whatever people want to believe in

they should be able to believe in, as long as they are not violent. Even if they choose to believe in nothing.

[hrmjustin]

32. When did you get ordained? what training did you have to have?

[RoccoR5955]

33. I was ordained last year.

My training is my business. It is my religion, and is between me and His Holiness.

[hrmjustin]

34. ok.

[rug]

38. Twenty bucks.

http://www.venganza.org/ordination/

I'll send you one for your birthday.

[hrmjustin]

39. That is what I thought. thanks.

[snooper2]

43. I know, it is a steal, to become an Ordained Minister it runs $49.99!

http://ordained-minister.com/packages/

[hrmjustin]

44. The point was that flying spaghetti monster posts are not allowed in this room.

[snooper2]

50. So if various governments already have accepted/authorized this religion it isn't good enough?

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2014021!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/asia-carrera.jpg

[hrmjustin]

51. No and as host of this room I ask you to stop posting this stuff in this room.

[RoccoR5955]

53. I get it.

You only recognize mainstream religions. Alternative religions, like Pastafarianism are not allowed.
So much for tolerance, I guess.

[hrmjustin]

56. The spaghetti monster is a parody on religion and as host I want to make clear it is not

appropriate in this room. It will upset several of our members.

[RoccoR5955]

62. It may have been setup that way.

But today it is being practiced by many.
Many christianist people are upset by muslim, shinto, or buddhist religions. are they banned as well?

[rug]

70. Oh good, I'm all ears.

Explain your sincerely held belief in stripers and beer volcanos.

[RoccoR5955]

73. In your religion, you might call it

"Heaven." Our's is much more entertaining. Oh, and there are not only female, but male strippers there for people of any sexual persuasion. The beer volcanoes spew different types of beers. Some have IPA, others stout, but my favorite ones spew Belgian tripel beer!

[rug]

74. We're talking about your "religion". Your need to compare shows its intent.

So, you believe there is a sexual "persuasion" as well? Do go on. I rarely hear such comments outside frat houses and reddit.

[RoccoR5955]

76. Our intent is

that others get along with one another, and appreciate their differences. We do not seek to control, we do not seek violence.
All humans have some sort of sexual persuasion as you call it, so why not in our "heaven?"

[rug]

77. Shit-stirring and mockery beies that.

So, what about that sexual "persuasion" tenet. You didn't answer.

[rug]

25. If your beliefs are legitimate and not a parody, I will apologize.

Now, kindly explain why Pastafarians allegedly believe there is a beer volcano in heaven and strippers with STDs in hell.

Kindly do so without reference to any other religion, such as snakes in Eden or gods in the form of elephants.

Because if you do do that, you've proven you are doing no more than engaging in a parody of other religions and not espousing any authentic belief of your own.

Now, how about those beer volcanos?

[RoccoR5955]

28. We believe in this sort of heaven because we have FAITH.

You have faith in your religion, why should I not be allowed to have faith in mine.
It states in the gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and I have faith in that Holy writing.

[rug]

35. I see. Parody.

Maxim is your gospel and reddit your seminary.

[RoccoR5955]

36. Why do you ridicule?

Is this a value of your beliefs? I have never ridiculed your beliefs, yet you continue with the attacks.

Do you not understand the meaning of the First Amendment of the United States?
Do you not understand that I have the right, under this amendment, to practice ANY religious belief of my choice, even if that is no belief at all?

This is not parody, simply because you do not understand the tenets of the religion.
Maxim is not my gospel, and reddit is not my seminary. There is actually a Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Look it up for yourself. There is even a book of prayer. Our seminary is our own. We do not have, nor need any physical buildings. We have our Faith.

Yes, to you (as well as the originator of our religion) our faith may be parody, however it has many followers, and is growing. Many of us take our beliefs quite seriously.

Please try to understand, that we mean no ill-will. We just want to be able to have our own beliefs, just as you do. We wish this without violence, hatred, or control. We only wish that others do good between one another.

May you be touched by His noodly appendages.

Arrgh, and Ramen!

[rug]

37. Cutting through the crap, state why your alleged belief involves strippers.

[snooper2]

45. You should read the gospel and learn for yourself-

I thought people on DU had open minds?



http://www.klps.pl/pliki/gospel_fsm_eng.pdf

Q: If there's a Beer Volcano and a Stripper Factory in Heaven, what's
FSM Hell like?
A: We're not entirely certain, but we imagine it's similar to FSM
Heaven, only the beer is stale and the strippers have venereal diseases.
Not unlike Las Vegas.

Q: Your "religion" offends my beliefs. What should I do about feeling
mocked?
A: Our alternative beliefs are in no way mocking your beliefs more
than yours mock ours. FSM believers are peaceful, open-minded,
well educated, and reject dogma outright. We've never started a
war and have never killed others for their opposing beliefs. Compare
our record to yours.

Q: Where does the FSM exist?
A: We're not sure exactly, because He's invisible most of the time and
rarely makes His presence known. Prayers don't seem to reach
Him until well after they're prayed. This leads us to believe there is
some sort of time dilation effect. Plus, so many prayers are offered
to Him that even He wouldn't have the time to hear them all without
a time dilation effect. For this reason, we suspect He spends a
great deal of time orbiting a black hole.

[rug]

46. I have. It's bullshit.

Buying bullshit is not a sign of an open mind.

[hrmjustin]

49. And it is not allowed in this room.

It is not appropriate in this room.

[RoccoR5955]

52. Why is this any different

than mainstream religion? Without the beer volcano and stripper academy, of course.

[hrmjustin]

58. It was set up as a parody of religion.

[RoccoR5955]

61. ORIGINALLY it was.

However, as with many other religions, it has become a practiced religion by many.

[hrmjustin]

65. I am sorry but I find that hard to believe.

[RoccoR5955]

68. Well I find it hard to believe

that any religion was not started as a farce, to explain that which science explains today.
I guess that it's your forum, so your opinion is worth more than mine though.
Just remember that there is no real tolerance, if you exclude ANYONE.

[hrmjustin]

69. Mocking religion is not allowed here and tge spaghetti monster thing is mocking us.

[AtheistCrusader]

79. I became an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to get around

religious privilege and discrimination. So that I could officiate a wedding, when my alternatives were; become ordained, or become a circuit court judge.

Those rules created by religious people to exclude the non-religious.
So sorry it offends your religious privilege, but I'm not going to just chip away at that ivory tower, I'm bringing the whole thing down.

Check your religious privilege, or people like me are going to continue to check it for you, in court.


I don't believe. I'm ordained anyway. That's ok, because belief isn't required to be a member in good standing. But RoccoR5955 told you he does believe. You have no credibility to stand on to tell him he doesn't. Remember your objection when I said 'I don't believe you anymore'? Remember your outrage? Try feeling that on his behalf, if you can set aside that privilege for a second.

[hrmjustin]

81. The fact remains that it will not be allowed in this room and that is final.

I told skinner this when I pmed him about this and there was no objectIon.

[AtheistCrusader]

84. You are a hypocrite.

"19. That is harsh. Rug is a believer like myself.
Are you saying he really doesn't believe?"

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=161892

"42. So you are calling me a liar now.
You know the sad thimg was I generally got along with you. I always took you at your word.

But if you are going to call me a liar I don't think I can talk to you anymore.

Good-bye."

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=162052


Religious privilege. Hypocrisy. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

[hrmjustin]

86. You came into this safe haven to call me a hypocrite?

Thanks for your opinion but as host I ask you to refrain from doing this. You can call me out in the religion room.

[AtheistCrusader]

87. But you're being a hypocrite here, not there. Callouts are not allowed.

If I post there, about what you are doing here, I'm providing fodder for a Jury, am I not?

[hrmjustin]

88. And you think you should do it here?

I don't go into your safe haven complaininabout your room anymore because I was asked not to. I would appreciate if you didn't do it here.

[AtheistCrusader]

89. I wasn't the one that arranged that.

However, if that is your solution to this issue, I will return to religion to discuss it.

[hrmjustin]

90. Take it wherever you wish but leave it out of here.

Meta is not appreciated in this room.

[AtheistCrusader]

91. I don't believe it is 'meta' to object to you abusing someone in this room.

[hrmjustin]

92. Abuse! I told the person that it is not allowed!

The poster persisted and I gave honest answers.

You are brining your dislike of me into this room and i will not have it.

[AtheistCrusader]

93. You told him HE is not allowed.

My like or dislike of you has nothing to do with objecting to your use of power on this forum, in an area where you and I have documented history I can link to.

You are doing to him, what you accused me of calling you a "liar" for in that other thread. The difference is, mine was opinion, yours is moderation authority and you are using it to silence him.

[hrmjustin]

94. Do the hosts of Atheists and agnostics allow material in the room that mocks

atheists and agnostics?

[AtheistCrusader]

95. First you have to establish that it is mockery.

You KNOW the legal source of the FSM idea, and it is not mockery. It was deadly serious, during a court battle.

What it may have grown into after that fact, might be called mockery by some, might be genuine faith by others. I personally am consistent, I don't 'believe' people who claim it, just like I don't believe you. But I would not use my OPINION of the veracity of their belief as criteria to bounce them from the room.

And I haven't seen A&A do it. I've seen the A&A mods do it for people attacking other people, not simply standing there and saying 'this is what I am'. Prophet 451 is a luciferian Satanist. He posts in A&A from time to time, and it has caused no shitstorm, because he talks about what he *is* not what he thinks others are.

[hrmjustin]

96. I haven't bounced anyone from this room yet.

I have made clear that it is mocking religion and is not tolerated here. I told skinner my plans before I became host. I got no objection.

The hosts of AA would not tolerste mockery of atheists and agnostics. They know it when they see it and so do I.


I locked a thread this morning that was meant to disrupt.

[AtheistCrusader]

97. I didn't complain about the lock.

But what you are doing here most certainly rejects that individual (an individual who is not Warren). He would have to adopt a new faith in order to participate, per your rule. As an observer, I find that highly unfair, and wanted to speak up about it.

You know my opinion, it's on the record. I am disappointed in your treatment of RoccoR5955. Otherwise, I guess we're done here.

[hrmjustin]

98. Mocking is not tolerated in safe havens.

You see the reactions when that stuff is posted in this sites by believers.

I am disappointed in you that you don't see that.

[AtheistCrusader]

99. I do see it. And I couch my response in the intent of the poster.

You don't see me going into prayer threads, or condolence threads, or 'I need support' threads, and shitting on people for religious sentiments do you?

You'll even find one by me in the pinned thread in Interfaith, because I didn't know the thread was in interfaith, as it was on the Top Five on the front page when I clicked on it, and I recognized the thread author.

It's one thing to put out religious faith as an article of discussion, and maybe receiving contentious debate on it. It's another to participate in a thread for expressing support/well wishes/prayer, and being told you're not welcome because your faith isn't real.

[hrmjustin]

100. How do you possibly propse allowing one person to use it and not allow others to do it.

There has to be uniform rules.

[AtheistCrusader]

101. I propose allow it.

There are occasions where even I will show up and well-wish from an entirely secular position, and genuinely mean it.
I don't think you should exclude anyone on a litmus test of your perception of their faith's sincerity. I think you should base it on the sincerity of the individual. We're all humans here.

RoccoR5955 seemed sincere to me, when he asked that question.
Prophet 451 seems also an outlier that might need allowances, if he came in here to pray to Lucifer, that might offend some people who participate in this sort of thing, even though I think that poster is sincere.

There are those that would dismiss luciferian Satanism as a 'mock' religion as well. (Recall the 'black mass' threads)


I think your rule should be more welcoming and along the lines of 'be positive, and participate', and if you see someone say something controversial, maybe just 'vote 1 and move on' (ignore it/give them the benefit of the doubt).

Disruptors will make their disruption known, if that's what they are after.

[hrmjustin]

102. I am sorry but the very fact that it is posted in here sets people off.

It triggers anger.

I am keeping the rule.

[rug]

115. The source of the FSM was not legal at all but an internet letter by Bobby Hendeson.

It was a parody and a sham from the get-go and better minds than his were involved in the litigation with Kansas and creationism.

It's even more of a sham today with internet posers batting their eyelashes that it's a legitimate religion.

For 20 bucks I'd join you in getting ordained but I don't do scams.

Now, since you've come in here calling people hypocrites - for seeing a scam as a scam - I'll give you one chance before I returrn the favor.

You've stated several times you're an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Fine.

Explain your church's beliefs in strippers and beer volcanos.

There will be one of three results.

1) You will demonstrate those are your sincerely held beliefs.

2) You don't believe them in the slightest and we will then move on to the topic of hypocrisy.

3) You will demonstrate it is in fact a sham designed to mock other religions.

Go ahead.

[AtheistCrusader]

131. If it's a scam, why did it give me EXACTLY what I wanted for a mere $20?

For twenty bucks I over-rode your institutionalized religious privilege, and officiated my brother's wedding. My only other options were:

1. Lie my way into a 'real' faith, so-called.
2. Become a circuit court judge.

FSM gave me exactly what I wanted, the power to step over the dead corpse of your religious privilege. All legal and above board.

Explain your church's beliefs in strippers and beer volcanos.

There will be one of three results.

1) You will demonstrate those are your sincerely held beliefs.

2) You don't believe them in the slightest and we will then move on to the topic of hypocrisy.

3) You will demonstrate it is in fact a sham designed to mock other religions.

As I told you last time, faith is not a requirement to be a member in good standing of FSM. I TOLD Henderson I don't believe, and he knows, and he told me faith is EXPLICITLY not a requirement to join.

Can't be a hypocrite if I never pretended to believe. I could have wormed my way into any 'real', so-called, religion with enough lies and effort, but I did it honestly. I don't believe in a heaven full of strippers and beer volcanoes. I have no use for strippers (but I don't pass judgment of any kind on their profession) and I do not like beer. Beer is disgusting. But while we're on the subject of parody religions, brace yourself, I believe George R. R. Martin's 'God of Tits and Wine' might be gaining some traction, and I at least have a use for wine.

Scientology started out as an explicit scam with more than a little mockery of other faiths, but now has members that actually profess to believe. It is not my place to say RoccoR5955 doesn't actually believe with any authority beyond expressing my personal opinion. I don't believe him, but I don't believe you either.

Now, you can make up whatever bullshit requirements you want about how I should either believe or abandon it, or nonsense about how I should defend its tenets for membership, but the teapot always wins. I'm not required to do any of that shit, and I have not offered you one scrap of hypocrisy to crow over. FSM is a fulcrum, as I said, or, a battering ram, or really, a weapon, in a deadly serious fight to keep religion out of government endeavors. But that doesn't also preclude the possibility of RoccoR5955 earnestly offering well-wishes in the lingo of the flying spaghetti monster.

Have a nice day.

[rug]

132. That's it? They gave you a piece of paper for $20 so it's not a sham? (I said sham; you said scam.)

Okay, it's #3 then.

Next time you come in here on your crusade, wear an honest banner and not bullshit.

Give my regards to Bobby, if you can get him off his catamaran. I guess those $29 bills add up.



http://blog.venganza.org/31.php

[AtheistCrusader]

136. Oh no you don't.

Liar.
Post 115:

"For 20 bucks I'd join you in getting ordained but I don't do scams.

Now, since you've come in here calling people hypocrites - for seeing a scam as a scam - I'll give you one chance before I returrn the favor. "

Granted, I made a MISTAKE about the first instance of the use of FSM, so, I withdraw the 'liar' bit, and will allow that you must have made some sort of mistake.


For 20$ that piece of paper allowed me to officiate a wedding. That's actually a very potent tool. Cost less than the marriage license itself.

Your option #3 says nothing about how effective it is as a weapon against religious intrusion into government, so try again.

[rug]

139. It's highly effective. Walls are cumbling as we speak.

The ramparts are filling with crusaders with sieves on their heads.

And all the priests are leaping from their steeples.

Thank you, Bobby, wherever you are.

[AtheistCrusader]

142. So which do you prefer?

1. I wait for a court case to wend its way through the courts, trying to spike the requirements to officiate a wedding at the state level. (And miss the scheduled wedding date.)
2. Lie my way into a 'faith'.
3. Become a circuit court judge (and miss the scheduled wedding date.)


I like weapons that work. That one works.

[rug]

148. Anything that doesn't include a kitchen utensil.

If you're talking about your need to legally officiate at a wedding, it depends on your jurisdiction. Some have secular paths.

If you were in a hurry, the Universal Life Church has been doing the same thing for decades and it's free. Without all the trappings.

A clown car makes a poor weapon.

[AtheistCrusader]

149. And yet, a clown car is exactly what I needed, and exactly what the issue merited.

And it worked perfectly.

I didn't need any trappings, either. Just :20bux:.

My state has no secular path, that lies outside getting elected as a circuit court judge, which, I am not qualified to attempt.


You want to impress me? Why don't you religious folks tear down the barriers you've put in my path? Just because I CAN drive right through it with a clown car, doesn't mean I should have to.

I would think honest, earnest people would be all over ripping down their own barricades to a open, honest, and respectful society.

After all, they are your barricades. Not to mention issues your church specifically, has erected on other issues.

[rug]

153. Who the hell said I want to impress you?

I get the distinct impression you're not even talking to me but responding to echoes in your head.

[AtheistCrusader]

155. I'm sorry the conversation didn't go the way you hoped it would.

By all means, start out with 'pick one of these three disingenuous options' and also 'gotcha, you said a word I'm going to pretend I didn't use'.

[rug]

156. I don't mnd conversations but the hemorrhaging of your life's hurts is not that.

[AtheistCrusader]

158. More like a life of seeing other people get hurt by various organizations.

Some religious, some political, etc.

usually something self-inflicted.

[okasha]

150. A yacht!

[rug]

59. Why is an email from Nigeria different from an email from your bank?

Being coyly obtuse does not rescue this sham.

[RoccoR5955]

60. I never get email from either. n/t

[hrmjustin]

48. Before you continue posting in this room please read this thread.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/1225107

[RoccoR5955]

75. So mocking is okay against Pastafarianism

Because the moderator and a few others deem it a parody.
This is as bad as those who want to ban Islam from their areas because they believe it is terrorist.
And here I thought that Christians were tolerant. I guess I was sorely mistaken.

[hrmjustin]

78. You can think whatever you want but the flying spaghetti monster parody is ment to mock

Us so it is not allowed in this room.

[AtheistCrusader]

80. No, the original purpose was a fulcrum by which to win a court battle

against religious people injecting religion into public schools.

Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al. (2005)

[hrmjustin]

82. Whatever. it is not allowed in this room.

[RoccoR5955]

83. OK, so much for religious tolerance then.

This is just so hypocritical, but I guess you do not see it that way.
Oh well, it's not the first time, I am sure it is not the last time that a lesser religion is persecuted.
May you be touched by His noodly appendages,
Arrgh and R'amen!

[hrmjustin]

85. I as host have made the rules clear.

I am sorry if this offends you but this spaghetti monster thing offends believers because it mocks us.

[RoccoR5955]

103. And your mocking my legitimate faith

offends me. It also offends me that you believe that my faith is less legitimate than yours.
So much for Christian tolerance.
May you be touched by His noodly appendages, and learn the Way of Pastafarianism.
Arrgh, and R'amen.

[hrmjustin]

104. Mocking? how am I mocking you?

[RoccoR5955]

106. You are mocking it by

claiming that it is not legitimate.

[hrmjustin]

107. It was set up as a way to mock religion!

[RoccoR5955]

110. So were other religions.

Any of these monotheistic religions were originally setup to mock the polytheistic religions of many centuries ago.
Now they practice it seriously, just as many of us Pastafarians are practicing seriously. I have a mass at a local bar every Friday night (our holy day). Granted, there are few followers, but I have had about a dozen or so on a good day.

[hrmjustin]

112. Do what you like but while I am host this is not allowed in here.

It mocks people of faith. Skinner knows my thoughts on this and he made me host.

No more.

[RoccoR5955]

113. So this is normal...

It's not about religious belief, it's about control. So you are allowed to mock MY beliefs, and the beliefs of others, because you feel that our beliefs mock yours.
You know the boss, and that's the end of it.
Okay, you win by the golden rule. The one with the gold, makes the rules.

[hrmjustin]

114. I don't knos the boss and I don't have the gold.

Your insinuations are ridiculous.

[AtheistCrusader]

133. It was not. Saying it over and over doesn't make that true.

It is no more 'mockery' than Russell's Teapot, of which, FSM is simply a more elaborate version.

The difference is, in having been crafted along a template resembling an actual religion, it may actually have earnest believers, today.

[hrmjustin]

135. Point is it is banned from this room.

And that I have and will say over and over again.

[AtheistCrusader]

138. So, going forward, I trust that you will state just that, and not

exclaim 'it's mockery' at people like the poster you were just arguing with?

You can't provoke *me* with it, because it is not a deeply held belief of mine, but mistreating him or her, does provoke me.

[hrmjustin]

140. It is a mockery despite what you say.

As much as I would love to argue this i have to be up in 7 hours to go to church tomorrow.

[AtheistCrusader]

144. Have a good night.

[hrmjustin]

145. Thank you.

[AtheistCrusader]

146. I'm going to finish 'talking' with Rug about that tangent, and then

I will excuse myself from the room. You won't have to worry about me making any noise in here again.

[hrmjustin]

147. That is fine. you say what you need to.

[rug]

116. Wrong. Here's the text of the decision.

https://web.archive.org/web/20051221144316/http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf

Nary a mention of FSM. "Fulcrum", my ass.

You even have the wrong state. Henderson's internet letter was about Kansas, not Pennsylvania.

[AtheistCrusader]

130. Wrong case, my mistake.

It was used in another school district.

In December 2007, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster was credited with spearheading successful efforts in Polk County, Florida, to dissuade the Polk County School Board from adopting new science standards on evolution. The issue was raised after five of the seven board members declared a personal belief in intelligent design. Opponents describing themselves as Pastafarians e-mailed members of the Polk County School Board demanding equal instruction time for the Flying Spaghetti Monster.[87] Board member Margaret Lofton, who supported intelligent design, dismissed the e-mail as ridiculous and insulting, stating, "they've made us the laughing stock of the world". Lofton later stated that she had no interest in engaging with the Pastafarians or anyone else seeking to discredit intelligent design. As the controversy developed, scientists expressed opposition to intelligent design. In response to hopes for a new "applied science" campus at the University of South Florida in Lakeland, university vice president Marshall Goodman expressed surprise, stating, "[intelligent design is] not science. You can't even call it pseudo-science." While unhappy with the outcome, Lofton chose not to resign over the issue. She and the other board members expressed a desire to return to the day-to-day work of running the school district.

It's also been used:

In March 2008, Pastafarians in Crossville, Tennessee, were permitted to place a Flying Spaghetti Monster statue in a free speech zone on the Courthouse lawn, and proceeded to do so.[90][91][92] The display gained national interest on blogs and online news sites and was even covered by Rolling Stone magazine. It was later removed from the premises, along with all the other long-term statues, as a result of the controversy over the statue.[93] In December 2011, Pastafarianism was one of the multiple denominations given equal access to placing holiday displays on the Loudoun County courthouse lawn, in Leesburg, Virginia.

Two incidents, used to bolster the firewall between church and state without even going to court.

It is simply an elaborate Russell's Teapot. Is Russell's Teapot a 'mockery' of religion as well?

[rug]

134. The difference is, Russell never said the teapot was real.

[AtheistCrusader]

137. And as such, it is useful as a logical/philosophical proposition only.

It has no use as a weapon in the fight to remove religious entanglement from government.

[rug]

141. Neither do lies and liars.

[AtheistCrusader]

143. Well, that rules one of us out.

[okasha]

26. It was "banished'

because the jury knew assholery when they saw it.

[RoccoR5955]

27. Just because a religion's beliefs is different from your's

and their blessings are different from your's does not justify name calling.

[okasha]

40. I:m not a host here, but I'd like to suggest a protocol.

Do not say anything in this room that you would not say in real life to a troubled, worried or grieving person who knows who you are.

[hrmjustin]

41. Yes. Be kind and peaceful.

No mocking.

[PoutrageFatigue]

54. No mocking? Have you read some of the responses in this thread...??

...

[hrmjustin]

57. Spaghetti monster threads are not tolerated in this room.

And this thread was sey up to discuss these things as was the rules thread.

[PoutrageFatigue]

63. Very tolerant of you Justin.

Are scientologist prayers, hindu, satanic prayers allowed too, or just those ones that you, as the host decide are proper? Just so EVERYONE is clear...

[hrmjustin]

64. Read the rules!

http://election.democraticunderground.com/1225107

[rug]

72. Very disingenuous of you, poutrage.

Why don't you just start a prayer to the strippers in heaven?

Or maybe you'd prefer one to the strippers with stds in hell.

Those are the tenets of this sham you're using.

Go on. You can even cross-post it in HoF.

[RoccoR5955]

105. You forgot Pagan, Zoroastrian, Rosacrucian, Tao, Sikh, Jain

and many others.
I think that what is implied is that any NON-CHRISTIAN religious prayers will be tolerated, because they offend those precious Christians.

[hrmjustin]

109. That is not true. if you had read the threads in this room you would know I posted prayers

from other faiths.

[okasha]

129. I'm a pagan.

I've posted here frequently since Justin revived the group.

You're here for no other reason than to disrupt. Your behavior is not welcome. Scat!

[rug]

71. Yeah. Beer volcanos and strippers.

Satire plus stupidity equals assholery.

Before you fatigue yourself with poutrage, that is not mockery. It's a description.

[RoccoR5955]

108. Oh? And a talking snake and

a man in the clouds is not stupid satire?
It's all a matter of opinion and faith.
Whatever floats your boat, and doesn't hurt anyone should be okay.

[hrmjustin]

111. So it is clear what you are doing here now.

[rug]

117. Ah, here we have it.

Why don't you just admit the only purpose of FSM, and your posts here, is to mock religious beliefs?

[hrmjustin]

118. I think he just did.

[rug]

119. I take that as an admission from you that FSM is in fact "stupid satire".

I also take from that that its purpose, and your purpose here, is solely to mock religious expression.

Since you have abysmally failed a mild question about FSM and strippers and beer volcanoes, I have little hope you can learn the difference between scriptural literalism and religious expressionsm.

[RoccoR5955]

120. You simply do not understand my point

I am not here to mock ANY religion, just to ask for tolerance of my own beliefs, WHATEVER they be, as I tolerate those differences from my religion.

Since you fail to realize this, I believe that you will ever learn the difference between tolerance, and intolerance. And here I thought that Christians were supposed to be tolerant. I guess that this is a myth.

[hrmjustin]

121. Why should we be tolerant of something being done to mock us?

[RoccoR5955]

124. For the nth time

Though the belief of Pastafarianism may have been to mock religion, there are many people who believe in the tenets of Pastafarianism, and believe in them whole heartedly.
Don't the Christian sects teach that you should be tolerant of one another?

[hrmjustin]

125. Yes we are tolerant but as host of this room I will not allow religion to be mocked.

And the flying spaghetti monster is mocking us. I say that for the 100th time sir!

[RoccoR5955]

126. No, you are not.

If you were tolerant, you would understand that Pastafarianism is as legitimate as any religion, and would accept it.
How would you know? Have you ever been to a Pastafarian mass?

[hrmjustin]

128. No and I am not going to.

You can describe it any way you like but i know what it is about and so do other believers.

We have a little room designed to lift people in prayer and you are posting things that you know offend believers. whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. We know this is a parody and it has no place in this room.

You can call me whatever you like but I am not budging on this.

[rug]

122. I'll be honest with you. I can tolerate just about any belief.

Now you be honest. Neither you nor anyone else believes in the FSM.

So your posts have nothing at all to do with beliefs.

OTOH, I have an exceedingly low threshold for bullshit.

And an even lower threshold for blatantly dishonest bullshit.

[RoccoR5955]

123. That's your opinion.

My posts have everything to do with my beliefs.
And if I was to say that your beliefs were a steaming pile of bovine fecal material, how would you feel?
I am not saying that, I am saying that your beliefs are your's and mine are mine, and we should appreciate each other for our differences. Apparently, you do not understand all of what Pastafarianism is about. It is TRULY about tolerance, unlike other religions which want to dominate, and condemn any religion that is different.

[rug]

127. That's my direct observation.

You have failed to explain its tenets regarding diseased strippers in hell and beer volcanos in heaven, let alone your peculiar use of the term "sexual persuasion".

Explain Bobby Henderson.

Explain where FSM was before 2005.

Explain why you cannot discuss FSM beyond one sentence before gravitating back toward your real interest, other religions.

You're fooling no one.

You're not very good at charades.

And you're wasting everyone's time.

Why don't you do something more constructive like put a colander on your head and upload the picture to the internet somewhere it's more appreciated?

[RoccoR5955]

151. OK Here goes

I do not have to explain any of the tenets of my religion to you. I do not demand that you explain the meanings of your religion to me to justify its existence.
You can take it or leave it for whatever you want.
I do not want to control, as you do, by censoring.
I only want to get along. I feel that there are legitimate, albeit humorous, prayers in the Pastafarian religion. You think that it is a farce, because all that you choose to observe are the mainstream attempts to crush it.
Perhaps you will, some day, open your mind, and see the real meaning of Pastafarianism. I will not do your homework for you.

[rug]

152. A nonanswer demonstrating your only concern is using this farce to attack other religions.

Repeating yourself only underscores it.

[RoccoR5955]

154. You really

Are trolling here, aren't you?
I have come to the conclusion that this is your aim.
You are being disruptive, and trying to control
No, it is not my job to do your homework.
Have a good time trolling someone else.

[rug]

157. Lol, you post this patently dishonest nonsense in a safe haven and you accuse me of trolling?

Give it up, Rocco. You're busted.

[RoccoR5955]

159. No way.

You, my friend, are the one who is outed as a troll!
You may think that what I say is dishonest, yet YOU call me names, claim that my view is nonsense, and generally put out vibes of hate.
Sorry, you are just WRONG!

[rug]

160. !

[rug]

42. Good advice.

[Peacetrain]

66. Safe travels in this journey Justin

I think it is a good idea.. and it will bring out those who are opposed to faith journeys on any level to try and derail what you would like to do.. in one ear and out the other.. or as my dear old Gram used to say.. Consider the source as you take this one on ..

[hrmjustin]

67. Thanks Peacetrain!

Hooefully it all goes well.

[hrmjustin]

161. I have let this thread go on long enough.

It is over.