Why are people still talking about or believing alternative theories about the JFK assassination?
20 some years ago, with advanced methods, the questions about the shots and where they came from were PUT TO BED.
The Internet Archive now hosts the two best programs I have seen on this subject.
One aired on ABC in 2003
From the Internet Archive - The Kennedy Assassination - Beyond Conspiracy.
Hosted by Peter Jennings of ABC News and featuring the computer analysis, by Dale K. Meyers, of the Zapruder film. This is really some outstanding work and worth the time for people who have not seen it. A fuller description at the link. (Link to the IMDB page https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387490)
The other aired on the discovery channel in 2004
From the Internet Archive - JFK: Beyond The Magic Bullet 2004. This show features a physical reconstruction/recreation of the shooting and is also very well done and worth the time. (Link to IMDB page https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1240839)
If you have not seen either one of these shows or both, and are still talking about alternative theories then all I can say is: Why are people still talking about or believing alternative theories about the JFK assassination? At least watch these shows before wasting anymore time on that alternative stuff that is NOT supported by any actual evidence.
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Jeebo
(2,317 posts)Have you ever watched the Zapruder film at full speed? Almost all of the times I have seen it, it was shown frame by frame. Somewhere on YouTube you can see it played at full speed. I tell you, that bullet that blew JFK's brains out of the back of his head came from in FRONT of that motorcade. I have no doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald was up in the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository building shooting out the window at the presidential motorcade with his mail-order rifle, but the shot that took out JFK came from in FRONT of the motorcade.
Do you ever listen to Thom Hartmann's radio show? He and Lamar Waldron wrote an exhaustively detailed and researched book about the JFK assassination. They talk about it sometimes on Hartmann's show. They say it was a mob hit, and they sure sound like they know what they're talking about. JFK and his attorney general brother were going after the mob and mobsters with names like Roselli and Traficante were behind the mob hit.
Back in the late 1980s sometime, or maybe it was the early 1990s, there was a short article in the inside pages of the USA Today about a deathbed confession made by a retired Dallas cop who said he was the shooter behind the grassy knoll, and he also said he killed Officer Tippett later that day. I wish I had kept a copy of that USA Today, but I thought this would be all over the news in subsequent days, weeks and months. I never heard another word about it. Who squelched that story?
I don't know what happened on that day, but I do not believe the official story. And we might never know.
-- Ron
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)I explained myself in the OP, I think.
Thanks.
-Jim
Archae
(46,895 posts)A radical Marxist loser, buys a rifle through mail-order, and uses it to shoot *The President.*
Lincoln's killer was a radical southern sympathizer, who had a gang of losers and drunks.
Garfield's killer was a religious kook who was positive "God" had given him a cushy government job.
McKinley's killer was an anarchist loser.
The two women who shot at Ford were a crazed activist and a Manson groupie.
The guy who shot Reagan is certifiably insane.
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)with people who knew him in the Peter Jennings show. It makes the case quite well on him, his life, his problems, and how he planned a prior assassination attempt months earlier and missed his target with the same rifle.
pandr32
(12,283 posts)There were so many witnesses and so much evidence that it was officially established years after the Warren Commission fiasco that there was a conspiracy.
If you believe the cover up, then fine. If you want to be sure you're right, listen to the podcast " Who killed JFK?" It's a great place to start and find out why so many don't buy LBJ's and Hoover's single assassin baloney.
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)About 20 years ago I was still very interested in all theories. These shows settle it. -period
pandr32
(12,283 posts)Good for you. It is much less unsettling.
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)and please realize, I didn't type out all the supporting information in the videos above, I only mentioned the shots analysis, but there is much more you possibly don't know. I have the Peter JEnnings show playing, wow give it shot with open mind. But also I would like point out, that some people make careers out of keeping conspiracy theories going
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)That part of the video is from around 1 hour and through to 1 hour 10 minutes.
In other words the acoustics evidence that the conspiracy part of their finding was based on.
pandr32
(12,283 posts)Maybe to some, but others have carefully researched the evidence and concluded differently.
You could look at the summary of this book and read the reviews:
Hear No Evil: Social Constructivism and the Forensic Evidence in the Kennedy Assassination.
The author, Dr. Thomas, also published an earlier 2001 article in the Journal of Science and Justice titled The Acoustical Evidence in the Kennedy Assassination Revisited .
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)If you did, you would see the head of the select committee make the case for no conspiracy himself. But you won’t watch it. You are more interested in keeping the woo going I think.
BryanDouglas81
(8 posts)Why do you think that the FBI deported a known French assassin one day after the event? Jean Souetre was involved in at least one other conspiracy to eliminate a Western leader. This is a quote about Souetre from a summary of the book that I mentioned in the title of this post.
He was involved in anti-de Gaulle terrorist activities in Europe and even tried to recruit the CIA in his efforts to oust the French President. During his career, he used at least 11 identities, including those of two real people. Why was a known French assassin in Dallas on the exact day that the president of the United States was killed, and what role, if any, did he play in the monstrous deed? This book delves into major areas of study: (1) the investigation of Jean Souetre and the two other men whose identities he used; (2) the investigation of the identities of two European assassins, QJ/WIN and WI/ROUGE, and their use in the CIA’s assassination unit called ZR/RIFLE-Executive Action.
Do people think that it's just a coincidence that a known assassin and terrorist with a track record of such activities was in the city where and when the event happened?
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)Six degree like pseudo-evidence does nothing for me. I prefer an Occam’s razor like approach.
pandr32
(12,283 posts)There really is a massive amount of evidence to support a collaboration between the CIA, international criminal factions, with help from the FBI and even LBJ to assassinate JFK. They had a plan in place identical to the Dallas one in Chicago a few weeks earlier that fell apart when the whistle was blown on it and the Kennedy trip there was canceled.
Who, what, where, when, and why.
Tree Lady
(12,205 posts)on looking at the Kennedy assasination. Interesting class, learning a few things. One LBJ wasn't going to be chosen to be VP on next election he was in trouble which magically went away as he became president. JFK threatened to tear the CIA into a thousand pieces and his brother went after mafia. So my personal belief is that the CIA set it up using mafia and Johnson knew about it. Dulles had no business being on Warren commission since Kennedy hated him and fired him two years before. Thats a whole other crazy thing, even though fired on day Kennedy was killed Dulles was at the farm CIA had. The more I learn and find out things, the more our whole agencies looked very corrupt back then.
We learned about Chicago also. About how security in Dallas which with all the threats should have been more was less. They used less motorcycle cops and the ones used were told to be behind car instead of surrounding it as normal. Normally all windows of buildings passed would be checked and windows boarded up. It's actually pretty obvious looking at the facts that it was not a normal event set up.
pandr32
(12,283 posts)Thank you for the response.
The trouble LBJ was in would have likely sent him to prison. He was up to his scalp in corruption. Sound similar? He also enjoyed a very cozy relationship with his across-the-street-neighbor J. Edgar Hoover, and had formed some reciprocal, corrupt relationships in Texas where he began his quest for power. All his schemes for office (first the House, then the Senate, and then the shakedown of JFK to be appointed his running mate over whom JFK had already chosen) were dirty as hell. He was no stranger to fraud, blackmail, or murder. His guy, the one whose fingerprints were found on boxes in the sniper's nest on the 6th floor of the SBD, had been sent to prison earlier, but somehow LBJ got him out early. His name was Mac Wallace. LBJ got him a position in the Department of Agriculture after securing his release from prison. LBJ was so crafty, he used tax payer money and government posts to pay his own henchmen.
LBJ created so much trouble for JFK while serving as VP that Kennedy's Civil Rights agenda was thwarted because LBJ would line up opposition against JFK's initiatives to later use then for his own legacy while POTUS. He was a rat.
It was LBJ who escalated the Vietnam War into full combat and used "the draft" to send young Americans to suffer or die. JFK was planning to withdraw as soon as he won his second term.
Tree Lady
(12,205 posts)just didn't mention it. Didn't want to say too much about LBJ on here because of the rules against talking bad about dems.
I have always known his FBI buddy gave him info to blackmail people into voting how he want in senate and congress. It's hard to think that without that we wouldn't have some of our best programs. A shame what it took for them to vote for the right thing and makes me feel sort of sick inside.
pandr32
(12,283 posts)It is important to find the facts whether we like them or not. It is sad that many still choose to believe the cover-up.
In the middle sits more than one monstrous person who never faced accountability. I hope the historical record will eventually reflect accuracy.
My best to you.
Tree Lady
(12,205 posts)I am just a curious person and every few years do more reading on the subject.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)Exciting speculation beats mundane truths. That is the same reason UFO stories remain ever popular.
I think, that it is more likely that someone would have spilled the beans since '63, than that the whole thing was a massive conspiracy involving a cast of hundreds of people. Someone would have wanted to show the world how clever or well connected that they were. It is just human nature.
As far as I am concerned, Oswald, alone, killed Kennedy until someone proves otherwise and the proof will have to be unassailable. When that happens, wake me up.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,848 posts)People are all too invested in conspiracy crap around the Kennedy assassination. You are absolutely right that no one has every proved anything remotely along the lines of "Oswald didn't do it".
Just like UFOs are absolutely unproven.
progressoid
(50,789 posts)It seems like a dead end obsession.
As a layperson, suppose I spend 10 or 20 hours a week reading and watching videos about this. After a few thousand hours of this, I suddenly have an epiphany and I believe I have the answer. Then what? Write a book? Start a podcast?
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,848 posts)
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)An impulsive gunman taking advantage of chance doesn't make emotional sense if you're certain the Commies are at the gate.
For others, JFK's death had to mean something. It couldn't only be an attention-thirsty *expletive* simmering away at a temp job. It has to be part of all the intrigue that comes with being a United States president surrounded by political enemies and friends who all want him to do something besides what he's doing.
The conspiracy theories really took hold and achieved sustainable cultural velocity in the pursuit and aftermath of the Vietnam War. The Pentagon Papers revealed an actual clampdown on the truth about that war. We'll never be rid of it now because it's part of the national discourse. True or false, people are going to believe what they want to believe. And this far on, it has no real consequence in people's lives. Compared to the issues that impact us nowadays, the JFK assassination is something to knock around over drinks.
Lee Oswald alone with the mail order rifle in the Book Depository window? That's certainly what I think. But when I lived in Dallas a decade or so ago, my grandmother came out to visit the Texas family, and we took her to the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas. I stood with her right beside the window, the actual place set up the way Oswald left it, the place where he took his three shots and changed the course of history.
And my grandmother who had lived through the entire thing looked at me and said, "I still think they took him out."
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)that have no supporting evidence, isn't good for society. All you have to do is watch how enemies of democracy fan the flames of conspiracy theories for political purposes to know that is true.
This case is and the conspiracy theories that sprung from it are an important part of this country's history, and there are things worth learning or knowing in that history.
Facts and analysis are available in the free links in the OP. Stop ignoring the facts that were presented 20 years ago.
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)I also know that all the facts and analysis don't matter to many people. My grandmother may have held onto a CT about JFK's death, but she also made the world a good place around her as long as she could. Something like who killed JFK was beyond her control and there was nothing else she do about it.
I offered her story in an effort to answer your OP. You can check my journal for my bona fides on arguing against conspiracy theories and advocating for reality. It's been a while since I posted here, but I'd stand by everything I said back then.
BootinUp
(49,169 posts)And the old days in the "dungeon".
If there are people who are not actively kicking CT around on internet political sites then my OP is not for them or to them..
Silent Type
(7,346 posts)Certain things are ripe for conspiracy theories, throw in politics and it never ends.
Archiebald
(6 posts)Most Americans were not alive or else lack any mature understanding of the Kennedy era. They look at 1963 through the lens of the 21st century when there is really not a great deal of similarity. They watch CSI or other police procedural TV programs and incorrectly project backwards. Modern skills and forensic technology were not available back then. Police and policing standards were not what they are today. Police officer training and qualifications were not what we would expect today. Officer Tippit, shot by Oswald on the street, left high school after tenth grade. He was typical. The chaos that we see in the old films and the uncertain chain of events were pretty much a product of the times. It all looks suspicious if you lose track of the timeframe.
Those were different times, chaotic and clumsy times by our standards. The last KKK lynching was in 1981. There were commies hiding in the bushes or in government, or so some thought, in 1963. The CIA was trying to kill Fidel Castro with exploding cigars. We may not have lynchings today, but we have George Floyds. We seem to be in the golden age of conspiracy theories because it is a slippery slope from rational and critical thinking to the dark depths of political suspicion and conspiracy. If you fall for one thing it is easier to fall for the next.