History of Feminism
Related: About this forumSo how come Miley Cyrus gets shamed
For her performance On the VMA's with Beetlejuice aka Robin Thicke, and Robin Thicke slides on by like oil, even though he looks like the King of creepers?
Hey, there goes your feminist cred You claimed for "Blurred Lines" Robin. You're not even trying anymore
tridim
(45,358 posts)For sucking so much.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)And that ridiculous suit. We don't lose cred for commenting how sad and desperate Miley looked. Gaga also looked ridiculous. I wish they would all keep their clothes on.
tridim
(45,358 posts)redqueen
(115,173 posts)Wait wait no, I remember.
PATRIARCHY
ismnotwasm
(42,484 posts)redqueen
(115,173 posts)This thread is a small experiment of mine.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)northoftheborder
(7,612 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)so many people to agree with - who cares. who listes to people that need to auto tune to sing. I went to see a play where people sing with real voices, And they were great!
BainsBane
(54,998 posts)and from what I could see, all he did was share the stage with her. He never touched her or engaged with her antics. That whole stunt looked entirely her doing. It wasn't like the Janet Jackson-Timberlake thing where he ripped her top off. Here Thicke was singing and Miley was losing her mind. She must have been on something. That Teddy Bear performance is about the worst musical number I've ever seen.
redqueen
(115,173 posts)over a stolen Marvin Gate hook, is worth a fuckton more criticism than whatever gyrations Miley engaged in.
But then, patriarchy.
Piece of shit is even suing Marvin Gaye's family. (As if the misogynist song over a ripped off hook wasn't enough.) Still, crickets.
(Gee liberals sure are picky about what kinds of empowerfulizing displays of sexuality are worth defending. I saw one woman here criticizing women for dancing sexy at clubs cause they weren't charging money for it. Nothing surprises me anymore.)
hlthe2b
(106,984 posts)BainsBane
(54,998 posts)but I don't think you can fault him for her behavior last night. Watch the clip and see what you think. It wasn't sexy at all. She looked like she was doped up on drugs and out of her mind.
http://perezhilton.com/2013-08-25-vma-mtv-2013-miley-cyrus-robin-thicke-we-cant-stop-blurred-lines-twerking-performance
Plus you know full well that I am not part of that empowering sexuality crowd. Sometimes people are just fools, which is what Miley looks like in that clip.
redqueen
(115,173 posts)But I think the issue isn't that he is somehow to blame for her antics... but rather why is so much criticism focused on her, while little to nothing is said about him?
BainsBane
(54,998 posts)Janet got all the shit because women's bodies become sites of cultural contestation, where the man is seen as doing no wrong because there is no expectation for him to be modest or restrained. There was a racial subtext to all of that as well, of the stereotype of the hypersexualized black woman. In this case, however, I don't see Thicke participating in Miley's behavior/performance. Firstly, she started out earlier in her own number with the Teddy Bears. She was sticking her tongue out in a weird way that I am guessing she thought was sexy but I can't imagine anyone else saw it that way. Then when she was singing with Thicke he wasn't connecting with her at all. He was looking away and from what I could see never touched her, though she touched him. They aren't actually touching during that butt grinding/bumping thing but at certain angels it appears closer than they actually are. Her performance didn't looked planned to me. I think she took a bunch of drugs and behaved in ways no one expected. I don't know what he could have done to improve the situation other than walking off the stage.
Now I know everyone is going on about how she didn't have enough clothes on and was behaving in appropriately. So there is that broader conversation that I have no doubt your point relates to. But as far as I'm concerned, it wasn't an issue of her being sexy but rather looking totally out of it. If I was her family I'd be checking on her in regard to chemical abuse.
redqueen
(115,173 posts)Imagine that they did separate acts.
He did his rape anthem over stolen hook, she does sexy antics.
Criticism focused on him? Little to none. Criticism focused on her? Insane amounts.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)He sings what many rapists, molesters etc.. tell themselves. It is a sign of a sickness. So was Miley. IMHO.
She did not look empowered. If a guy did it I'd have the same opinion.
ismnotwasm
(42,484 posts)But it's not worth watching.
BainsBane
(54,998 posts)He was standing behind her but didn't touch her.
hlthe2b
(106,984 posts)who in almost unison describe the entire performance by one of either two words (or both combined): "vulgar" and/or "raunchy"....
It seems this is what passes for "talent" now a days (and by that I sarcastically mean both Cyrus and Thicke).
Yes, I know, I know... Madonna and several male performers have had similar gimmicky performances and thus this trend isn't exactly new... Some, though, have the "talent" cred to get past it, though and I tend to doubt either of these two "have it."
redqueen
(115,173 posts)hlthe2b
(106,984 posts)along with this assumption that "objection to just about anything on stage-- no matter how tacky"-- amounts to being "uncool", 'afeared" of all things sexual, regressionist or promoting censorship. No, I just don't happen to think a "rape-promoting" male singer, dressed like BeetleJuice, grinding into the behind of a minimally talented vocalist who is simultaneously and rather desperately flinging her tongue in a manner that contorts her entire face into one long sneer, to be anything more than embarrassing--for them.
Madonna will be remembered for more than her antics on stage (and bad acting), merely because she did have both song-writing and vocal talent. I'm not sure the same can be said for today's "shock" acts, both male and female.
alp227
(32,487 posts)See this TYT clip from 7/24
ismnotwasm
(42,484 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,484 posts)Her hyper-sexualised set, which included rubbing her butt into Robin Thicke's crotch and getting extremely personal with an oversized foam finger, drew criticism from feminists for degrading her sex and from some pundits for "picking the pocket of black culture".
Bursting out of an oversized teddy bear, Cyrus started off in a strapless one-piece leotard before stripping down to a flesh-coloured latex bikini and "twerking" her tiny frame all over the stage.
Twerking is nothing new. The provocative dance became part of hip-hop culture in the 90s when it was adopted by the New Orleans bounce music scene before being made popular by the strip clubs of Houston and Atlanta.
It has its roots in west Africa and was also popular in the Jamaican dancehalls before making it to the US.
Typically, women find ever more frenetic and acrobatic ways of "presenting" their bums to their male dance partners.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/26/miley-cyrus-twerking-not-working
redqueen
(115,173 posts)Black culture is more than batty-riding hotpants and weed smoking and for some of those watching, Cyrus's new persona doesn't break down barriers, it reinforces stereotypes.
Criticizing her for this, I am on board with.
For doing a raunchy stripper routine? Fuuuuuuuck off.
Mosby
(17,697 posts)I didn't care for the act myself, but if that's the direction she wants to go that's her decision.
My main objection is that it was not appropriate given the early time slot.
Eminem didn't grow up rich in some middle class Disney shit and suddenly decide that he wanted to sound more "urban" and "black" and play dress up using black culture as a costume.
Mosby
(17,697 posts)it wasn't a very good comparison.
BainsBane
(54,998 posts)in every way. That teddy bear thing is the single worst musical performance I have ever seen in my life. Even her attempt at being lascivious was awful. Is there anyone who actually found that sexy?
Warpy
(113,131 posts)Justin Timberlake ripped her shirt off during a half time show.
Timberlake was able to whine his way out of it. Some jerks out there are still slut shaming Janet Jackson, years later.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)If they want to look like a bag of hammers, go ahead, I needed a good laugh. Funny as all hell.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)the black people as props was kinda odd/weird ...
The whole thing was just stupid.
So stupid I had to laugh.
ismnotwasm
(42,484 posts)Im not sure too many people had high standards for Thicke, whose rise to fame came on the wings of this summers rape anthem. On the TODAY show his mom spoke of her shock over the way Miley danced with her son, but said nothing of Thickes sexist, degrading video to his hit song about date rape. It is the perfect example of the double standards we hold in society. She says she cant unsee Mileys rump twerking on her son, just like I cant unhear Thickes lyrics about wanting to tear a girls ass in half during anal sex because shes the sexiest bitch up in this place. I wonder if that makes his mom blush, too?
People feel differently about Cyrus than they do about Thicke, and when we discuss this we are falling short when we shrug it off by saying she doesnt want to be a role model, doesnt owe anyone anything, and can express her sexuality any way she wants. That falls short because she is a role model and how she expresses her sexuality impacts the millions of girls with less fame and less money. Miley becomes part of a media culture. Media shapes perception, and perception becomes reality.
The blogger asked for Facebook responses, my favorite, reminicient of RedQueen's thread;
http://blog.pigtailpals.com/?p=4433
Personally, I'm grateful for the thoughtful discussions that arose from this in different areas of the blogosphere
rocktivity
(44,885 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 21, 2016, 07:55 PM - Edit history (2)
You dress like a clown, behave like a slut, substitute them for talent, and subsist on the resulting controversy.
If someone dares to call you on it, you accuse them of being a blue-haired uptight pearl-clutching slut-shamer while you're defended by those who just want to retain their right to continue to ogle you.
rocktivity
Response to rocktivity (Reply #36)
rocktivity This message was self-deleted by its author.
rocktivity
(44,885 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 16, 2014, 11:36 PM - Edit history (1)
(Thicke): "I was high on vicodin and alcohol when I showed up at the studio. So my recollection is when we made the song, I thought I wanted I I wanted to be more involved than I actually was by the time, nine months later, it became a huge hit and I wanted credit. So I started kind of convincing myself that I was a little more part of it than I was and I because I didnt want him I wanted some credit for this big hit. But the reality is, is that Pharrell had the beat and he wrote almost every single part of the song.
(Williams) ...said he was in the drivers seat for this song, but explained that sharing credit is the norm for the music industry....When asked whose words were used in the lyrics, Williams answered: Mine. Williams also said that its Robin Thickes voice that makes the song great: Because its the white man singing soulfully and we, unfortunately, in this country dont get enough we dont get to hear that as often, so we get excited by it when the mainstream gives that a shot.
Thicke also admitted he lied to media outlets about the genesis of the song...Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gayes Got to Give It Up. I was like, Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove. Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it."
Not to put too fine a point to it, but the way these two couldn't throw each other under the bus fast enough, I wouldn't spit on either of them if they were on fire.
P.S. How do either of them explain being in the Blurred Lines video? WARNING: this link is not safe for work, feminists, younger viewers or music lovers
rocktivity
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Thicke is essentially a no-talent impostor.