The Not-So-Great Debate on Domestic Violence

[redqueen]

Thought I'd link this here as a reference. There's a lot of anti-feminist propaganda regarding domestic violence out there. If you're actively discussing the issue in public, you might encounter some of the claims that are most commonly made based on the flawed or misconstrued studies which you find cited on MRA sites (Radar, The Spearhead, AVFM, etc.)

A few years ago, David Futrelle (of manboobz) engaged a popular MRA in a debate about domestic violence, as this is one of the most common topics that MRAs love to spread disinformation about.

So if you're ever in a situation where you're talking about DV with feminists, and someone shows up and starts introducing some of this whacko stuff, this is a good resource which I've used to decide to either just stop responding or to shut them down if time allows.

In October 2010, I agreed to a debate on Domestic Violence with Men's Rights Activist Paul Elam of the blog A Voice for Men, to take place on his blog. Unfortunately, it went off the rails fairly quickly. At about the same time as he put up my first post in the debate, Elam put up a separate piece on his blog, suggesting, as a "joke," that October, Domestic Violence Awareness Month, should be renamed "Bash a Violent Bitch Month." He then tried to twist the rules of our debate in a way that would benefit him, and threatened to censor a commenter on the debate who'd had the temerity to disagree with him.

After several frustrating exchanges with him on this issue I decided to end the debate. You can read all the gory details here, and more about his childish behavior afterwards here.

...
http://manboobz.blogspot.com/p/not-so-great-debate-on-domestic.html

[In_The_Wind]

1. There is no excuse for Domestic Violence.

[boston bean]

6. There is also no excuse for false stats that try to diminish

the reality of what women face, and what feminists work to fight.

[In_The_Wind]

10. I agree.

[BainsBane]

2. And then there is the absurd argument

that more men than women are victims of domestic violence, not as well, but more.
I take that to be an MRA position and clearly false.

[KitSileya]

3. Not to mention that men had more reason to fear than women,

as they were more at risk for violent crimes *other* than rape... and that they should fear murder more than women, while implying that men had more reason to fear murder than women had of fearing rape. The violent crime rate was 403.6 per 100,000 population in 2010, and that includes women. At the same time, 1 out of every 36 female college students were raped in the academic year. However, rebuttal with stats was met with crickets.

[BainsBane]

5. It is true that more men than women are victims of violent crime

but that disparity pales in comparison to the perpetrators, who are overwhelmingly male. In the case of homicide it's 86 to 14, in rape 99 to 1. Efforts to paint those crime stats as about oppression of men are absurd since men themselves are the perpetrators.

[KitSileya]

7. That is definitely a part of it.

And a very good point. And one they do not want to address.

[xulamaude]

9. Whatch out! They may want to

see if you float for mentioning that men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of ALL crime...

[BainsBane]

13. Oh, they've tried drowning

and burning this witch several times, but I survive. You can't kill me, evidence of my true sorcery.

[xulamaude]

14. Yes, the sorcery called

living under the 'boot' your entire life.

Has a way of making a girl... tempered...



ETA - oh, and floatie! Like a duck

[KitSileya]

15. And in addition, if I'm reading these stats from BJS right...

in 2011, 25.4 of every 1000 men and 19.8 of ever 1000 women (over the age of 12) were victims of violent crimes. That is 2.54% of men and 1.98% of women, right? Quite a significant difference in rates of victimization.

They also give the rate for serious violent crime, which includes rape or sexual assault, robbery and aggravated assault - a narrower focus. There the victimization rates are .77% for men and .67% for women. In other words, while men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes, for serious violent crimes the difference isn't nearly as big.

The stats are taken from table 5 Rate and percent change of violent victimization, by demographic characteristics of victim
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv11.pdf

I am getting quite tired though (a long day of grading papers will do that to a teacher) so I may have misunderstood the numbers on p.5, but I don't think so.

[xulamaude]

17. That's interesting and thanks for posting the link too

have to admit that I have that numbers dyslexia thing going on so my brain kind of freezes that way.

I'll still have a look at it though

[KitSileya]

18. Oh, I wish I had a brain freeze right now.

Things are really mounting up for me here on DU - it's not fun anymore. Add that to the intense work load I have going on right now, and I'm starting to wonder if it is worth it. Instead, I write rebuttals in my head as I try to go to sleep - and since I post at odd hours because of the time difference, my posts in GD are largely ignored. Ugh.

Well, that was a derail and a half... I guess I should go to bed.

[xulamaude]

20. Rest well Kit :) nt

[xulamaude]

19. Having looked at table 5

I'd say that you were seeing it correctly.

[BainsBane]

21. Interesting

[BainsBane]

23. Oh, I missed the message from our visitor

Anyone see it?

[xulamaude]

24. Not me.

Figured he took a wrong turn somewhere and was respecting the space by self deleting.

[AuntPatsy]

4. It is not only men who perhaps unknowingly perhaps not, find reasons to use ridicule for those

Individuals desperately attempting to highlight this very real ongoing threat in our society, women do as well. It is in my personal opinion though that those women who find themselves on the same page as quite a few men either themselves are victims of a male dominated society with a misguided belief that they are not or simply fearful of alienating their menfolk in fear that same intimidating behaviors will be directed at themselves.

[xulamaude]

11. It is true that many, many women are

'colonized' by male attitudes towards women.

It is a survival mechanism for them, and I can't really blame them. Everything is set up for women to hate themselves and one-another and frankly sometimes I'm surprised that any of us escape that mindset.

[AuntPatsy]

12. The word Survival states it well, sadly they don't understand how surviving doesn't exactly mean

Living.....

[xulamaude]

16. Two entirely different ways of 'being'

for sure.

And that's why I will never sit still and be quiet about feminism - I've seen so many women come to the realization that they have been in survival mode and look to a better way of living, even if only in their own minds.

[xulamaude]

8. It's been quite some time since I have read

anything that Paul Elam has had to... say.

It's funny though because since I've been here at DU it's like, sometimes, I'm still reading old Paul and his buddies.

I am happy that I've found a way to describe this weird phenomenon: "Paul Elam-esque."

Thanks for the link RQ.