History of Feminism
Related: About this forumWhite privilege 101: Here’s the basic lesson Paul Ryan, Tal Fortgang and Donald Sterling need
Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)
And all the DUers that don't understand what the fuck White privilege is. While this article is somewhat intellectual in tone, I'm sure all the ones who are defining their arguments against white male privilege will have no problems understanding it.
There is a way to fight back against this very real, and so far unrecognized, threat. And that is for white people especially white men to step up and push back (lovingly or forcefully, as the situation dictates) against this sort of polarizing rhetoric and the thinking and feeling thats connected to it. Its not just a matter of paternalistically helping out women and minorities when theyre attacked. The fortunes of white working-class men have plummeted since the early 70s not because women and minorities have stolen their cheese, but because theyre snookered into thinking like that, making themselves easy marks for far more sophisticated actors to take advantage of. And whats long been true for working-class white men will increasingly become true of white men with college degrees as well. One of Thomas Pikettys central points is that any sort of labor, however skilled it may be, is going to lose out to inherited capital in the long run, if the basic structures of todays capitalist economy arent changed.
So how do white men fight back, not just for the sake of others, or society as a whole, but for themselves, as well? There are lots of ways they can do this, but here Id like to focus on just one: by gaining a much a more solid, objective understanding of what minorities (especially blacks) and women already largely understand as a basic fact of life how racial and gender privilege work, with white male ignorance as a key component. Its only by unifying against an already unified economic elite that Americans of all races and ethnicities can keep hope alive for a more prosperous future.
Before going any further, I just want to quote from McDonoughs article, where she references a sampling of the information already out there:
Its likely that Fortgang will have the opportunity at Princeton to learn about the racial wealth gap, the legacy of red-lining, the unemployment rate among college educated men of color versus their white counterparts, the convergence of racism and sexism that leaves women of color disproportionately impacted by domestic violence, the gender pay gap experienced by black women, the deadly violence faced by black children and the myriad other manifestations of racism in the United States. Basically all of the things that he will never have to experience as an extraordinarily privileged white man.
http://www.salon.com/2014/05/09/white_privilege_101_heres_the_basic_lesson_paul_ryan_tal_fortgang_and_donald_sterling/
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 08:54 AM - Edit history (1)
classicism.
boils down to green.
who has it. how they will keep it. how they will lord it over us. over all of us.
how much green a person has is/will be the only color/thing that matters.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)privilege is not JUST about money....
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)House serfs vs. field slaves to use the old vernacular.
It really is almost there now.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)both Half White and Native Americans.....so you don't have to tell me what is coming. But first we have to get the stupid to see......
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Problem. Never have been. They are new to this and are in the denial stage. They are lashing out. Some of the more enlightened ones understand. 2014 and 2016 elections will tell the story. Full disclosure here I am of mixed blood, too. Only 1\16th Black.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)really truly makes it obvious there is still so much to do ......we have a long way to go yet to fix these problems...
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)I am black. I am a woman.
I STILL get followed around when I go into ANY store--high- or low-end.
I am STILL questioned regarding my intelligence!
I STILL earn less than my white male counterparts despite more education, more experience, no children (so they can't use that as an excuse).
I STILL earn slighly less than my white *female* counterparts even with the same level of education, expertise, and experience.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)am I discounting your experience, I am speaking to a future that, if not changed, will be a future of inherited capital whereby none of us really matter to the 1% except for what we can do for them. *In my opinion* this is one of the reasons we are seeing so much push back from Old White Men on this site. They are just now starting to feel the effects of being *underprivileged* and they don't like it.
At some point, if we do not turn things around, it will come down to INHERITED CAPITAL.
The louder we hear Middle Class Old White Men scream, whine, moan and carry on the more it proves that it is happening.
It is a conundrum because they are just now feeling it and they don't like it.
Hell, Welcome to the club Old White Men. We haven't LIKED IT FOR A LONG FUCKING TIME.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Sorry for any misunderstanding/confusion.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)mercuryblues
(15,290 posts)The fortunes of white working-class men have plummeted since the early 70s not because women and minorities have stolen their cheese, but because theyre snookered into thinking like that, making themselves easy marks for far more sophisticated actors to take advantage of. And whats long been true for working-class white men will increasingly become true of white men with college degrees as well. One of Thomas Pikettys central points is that any sort of labor, however skilled it may be, is going to lose out to inherited capital in the long run, if the basic structures of todays capitalist economy arent changed.
People also have a need to place blame. The Right has succeeded in this area. By shifting the cause onto the other, deflecting from real cause. It is real easy to do when people don't like to think, they like being told why. I call them Faux newz viewers. There is some laziness involved. Some is that people are working hard at their jobs and just getting by. They are too tired when they come home, so they let the media think for them.
After a few years of this they have become entrenched and addicted to the cycle.
Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)They see it as a threat to their power. They'd rather shoot themselves in the ass rather than see anyone else have a chance at being raised higher.
Exhibit A: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024940971
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)only emphasizes this point...and many cannot see past money....they think privilege means wealth. If they themselves are rich...they cannot see how they could have ever benefitted from having their skin and gender in the U.S.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)sheshe2
(88,302 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Whether someone put themselves in that cave, or is there through no fault of their own: either way, it's dark in there, and until they get the guts to crawl out into the light, they won't be able to see for shit.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)up for the reasons indicated in the post.
White entitlement is a mindset, a product of historical privilege that carries in the gene pool and culture to this day.
How to explain it without offending is a real challenge.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)let them be offended. about time they learn how it feels.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)in their power not to offend white people. And yet, there are whites (of ALL political persuasions) that can say anything and do anything to offend us and not even think about it. They tell us to "get over it" and that "racism no longer exist" and "it's not as bad" and "stop being so sensitive or angry".
But, you see, whites who make these declarations aren't black. So how do they know how things are if they aren't black. How can they speak from our experiences? How can they tell us how we should feel if they are not us?
I understand what you mean about entitlement. Yes, whites who think this way are entitled but they are also privileged because they don't have to think about what it means to have black or brown skin. The thought never crosses their mind. It never enters their consciousness. That's not their fault. I'm not blaming them. No black person is blaming them. All we're asking them to do is understand that because they don't have black or brown skin, they need to come to terms with the fact that they benefit inherently from that. They don't have to have the discussions with their children that we are forced to have with ours, such as how we must behave around white people so as not to offend. Or, how black boys must carry themselves or dress in public, especially around cops. I remember my parents telling me to always sit at the front of the classroom if I was the only black kid in class because I would stick out like a sore thumb. If class attendance in college counted against you and you were one of few blacks in class, you had better show up because the professor will know that the darkie is missing. These are just a few examples of white skin privilege.
IronLionZion
(47,215 posts)a sense of entitlement is worse than being oblivious to the adversity you don't have to go through.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)uponit7771
(92,099 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)"white SKIN privilege". Perhaps then we'll get it. Perhaps then we'll stop pretending not to understand. Only when unfortunate events happen, e.g., a Trayvon is murdered or some innocent black or Brown person is followed/accosted are we *shocked* that racism exists and yet we fail to understand (or ignore) how skin color alone is the cause of these unwarranted violations?
Let's us stop pretending, people.
Let's us stop being willfully ignorant.
If we are truly sincere about addressing racism;
If we are truly serious about irradicating any and all forms of "isms," then let's stop with this self-imposed victimhood.
We know damn well what white privilege is.
Let us open our eyes!
Let us speak out!
Let us work to change our mindset.
We need to unlearn what we have learned, what we've been taught all out lives.
Then, and only then can we work together to eradicate racism once and for all.
But if we continue to play the victim and get angry when someone tells us the truth, then we're not addressing the situation; we're making things much worse!
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)But if we continue to play the victim and get angry when someone tells us the truth, then we're not addressing the situation; we're making things much worse!
JustAnotherGen
(33,882 posts)You're voice is strong and clear!
elias7
(4,209 posts)A number of pieces written including a Salon piece did bring up this separate issue. I have tried to read through the many threads here and I can't tell if the disagreement is whether a white male acknowledges his privilege or if the framing of the issue as accusatory/provocative is raising people's hackles.
I'm guessing what Tal said in class that caused someone to tell him to check his privilege was pretty severe (I think about homelessness or food stamps or something), but being told to check your privilege is akin to being told to STFU, and is a rhetorical move.
BainsBane
(54,982 posts)but on DU we face the opposite side of it where some feel entitled to tell others, including African American members, that they shouldn't use the word privilege. They also declare threads about the topic, or virtually any relating to racism and sexism, as flamebait. Accusing people who post about racism and sexism of being trolls or sockpuppets is clearly an effort to shut down the discussion.
elias7
(4,209 posts)I think there are those that, as some have put it, are on the "all about me" train, and they automatically feel put on the defensive because they feel lumped into the cretin group of racists and sexists. This pushes buttons (even spousal ones) and they push back in sometimes ugly ways, despite the fact that they may not even remotely be sexist or racist.
I read a lot more threads than I post in, and I work to understand the dynamics within a heated thread. For example, if I see a rape culture thread started outside of HoF, I just wait for the fireworks. Sometimes the arguments seem disconnected, in that it is often about semantics, not content. Where there is fundamental agreement on the larger issue, this often goes unnoticed since a quagmire has formed around definitions, but the emotional pitch has risen to a point of no return.
Your tactic of pointing out these issues again and again though is highly effective in desensitizing the sensitive and educating those who aren't really affected (the often ignorant but well meaning white male).
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Some "feeling lumped in" is all the more reason DUers should read this article ... it speaks directly to that sentiment.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)others. The problem is, too many people are happy to spew off on these issues with no backround, and very limited personal experiences. And they ignore or dismiss the other information out there, as well anecdotal info from people who are actually much more experienced than they. Ignorance can be bliss, if you were assigned a place at the top of the heap!
elias7
(4,209 posts)But the problem is that people are not being asked to consider the POV and experience of others. They are hearing someone putting them in their place, putting them down, making them feel ignorant/uniniformed by being told to "check your privilege".
Once people have heard this a few times and have thought it through, they realize what it means, and what it doesn't mean. But it is causing problems here for some because it sounds like a put down to the uninitiated.
Walking people through a new literacy is more helpful than calling them "ignorant or dismissive", or undercutting them in subtle fashion by labelling them as being "assigned a place at the top of the heap". Where one hears blame and anger on one party's part, there will be defensiveness and resistance on the other party's part.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)from those people whio literally could not give a fuck about the issue.
elias7
(4,209 posts)Especially if it comes from a privileged voice.
Of course, some folks are quite influenced by tone.
ismnotwasm
(42,482 posts)Has existed and I personally don't know a single soul who isn't aware of it. When we have meme's like "check your privilege" and get an overwhelming negative response FROM the privileged, I think the attack or idea that that privledge is wrong and damaging is what's threatening. In other words, the threat of lising ones privledge. This shouldn't be-- and it's been discussed and taught, discussed and taught for years. Plus, there are horrible examples of privledge gone wrong to puruse every day of every life, if one takes the time to see.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Great OP.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)who are blathering on about white privilege, male privilege, heterosexual privilege, or cissexual privilege not being real and/or important "Because wealth and class!!1!!!".
Zero. Fucking. Time.
BainsBane
(54,982 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Many of those calling for systemic change are really just speaking to their place in the system, rather than the failings of the system.
Give them wealth and they would be perfectly happy in the system that continues to oppress ... so long as it's not them.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,482 posts)I'm very gratified to see this article so well received--to me one if the problems of online argument is the subjective and anecdotal argument, I thought one did a good job bypassing those, and bringing truth and common sense to the topic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I have seen. It speaks to/addresses every point raised regarding privilege.
No wonder it sunk like a rock.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)future in a way that no other has addressed.
ismnotwasm
(42,482 posts)This is the kind of thing that always sinks--you have to think, and not just knee jerk react.