How Porn Fuels Human Trafficking

[redqueen]

Trigger warning of course.

[LeftyMom]

1. Why are you posting a video from an anti-choice anti-feminist in a feminist space?

I just googled the guy and literally the first link that comes up if you google his name is his blog on lifesitenews.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/author/jvanmaren/

[redqueen]

2. Because he's talking about porn.

I disagree with his pro-life stance. Thankfully that is not the topic he's discussing.

He's not some key figure in the pro-life movement.

[LeftyMom]

3. He doesn't think women control their own damn bodies.

Why would anybody give a shit about anything else he has to say about sex or gender? He's spectacularly wrong on the most basic possible point.

[redqueen]

4. SIGH

Fine. I'll take it down.

It'd sure be nice if people who get outraged that anyone would dare criticize the abuse of women for sexual thrills would comment on the fucking topic instead of digging around to try to discredit the goddamn messenger

But you know... priorities and all.

[LeftyMom]

5. Seeing who the fuck is talking isn't digging around and discrediting. Google takes seconds.

Checking sources instead of posting crap from odious people just because you happen to agree with it is how to avoid this problem. Since it seems to be a recurring one in this discussion it really ought to be a habit by now.

[redqueen]

6. What's a habit is this kind of 'let's not talk about the issue let's dig around to try to discredit

sources' shit.

It's gone.

[LeftyMom]

7. You edited and put up a different video.

This is the one you had:

This is who appears in it and what his agenda is: http://www.lifesitenews.com/author/jvanmaren/P15

edit: The new guy is still an anti-choice fundamentalist! WTF https://twitter.com/MrDanielGilman

[redqueen]

8. LMFAO - first you're pissed that he was posted here... now you're posting it yourself.

Thanks for making your priorities and your agenda so obvious. You have NO CONCERN AT ALL about the violence these women deal with.

[LeftyMom]

9. I'm well aware of what fundamentalists want for women and I want no part of it.

If you think they're feminist allies just because they're anti-porn you could not be more wrong. They want every man to own a lady of his very own.

[redqueen]

10. This thread is about women BEING RAPED IN THE MAKING OF PORNOGRAPHY

do you have ANYTHING AT ALL to say about that?

[LeftyMom]

11. Sure. Go get a credible souce and we can discuss it.

If one of those idiots said it was going to be 75 and sunny on Tuesday I'd pack an umbrella.

[redqueen]

12. Like there's a shortage. Like it hasn't been posted before.

How very much some people care is evident already.

No trigger warning because it's a commercial (can't post shock content of course)

Read the first comment for an idea of what she went through.

[redqueen]

13. ...

Again, read the first comment posted.

But how many care? Most just bury their heads in the sand.

[redqueen]

14. Maybe we can't trust these women because they were personally harmed by porn

That's another cop out so many defenders use.

[redqueen]

16. trigger warning of course

But when the director finally got the pair to settle down to the business at hand — filming a sex scene — the tone changed. Without any prompting, Vidal got rough during the sex, slapping Michelle's face violently from side to side, and choking her.

Afterward, she looked shaken, her face reddened and her eyes watery. But she insisted she was OK. "I look torn up — can you tell?," she asked an ABCNEWS producer who was following her progress for Primetime. Laughing and wiping her eye, she turned away and said without conviction, "I took a beating today, and it was great."

...

During interviews with Primetime, Michelle kept the happy smile she had always had — even when describing things that many people would find disturbing. However, her composure cracked when Diane Sawyer asked why she always smiled. Tears came to her eyes as she said, "Because I like to hide — hide everything, you know?" Then she began to cry, explaining that she hides her real emotions because she wants to show everyone how happy she is. "And I'm not happy … I don't like myself at all," she said.

Michelle confessed she often felt physical revulsion during her scenes: "My whole entire body feels it when I'm doing it and … I feel so — so gross." While pretending to be enjoying the sex, she said, she was in fact counting the minutes, telling herself, "Hey, I only have this much time left. Don't worry about it. Get the check. Gonna go deposit it in your bank." She admitted: "You get addicted to the money."

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132369&page=1&singlePage=true

[redqueen]

18. ...

Regan Starr who worked on the second film in this "line", Rough Sex 2, had a different take. "I got the shit kicked out of me," she said. "I was told before the video - and they said this very proudly, mind you - that in this line most of the girls start crying because they're hurting so bad . . . I couldn't breathe. I was being hit and choked. I was really upset, and they didn't stop. They kept filming. You can hear me say, 'Turn the fucking camera off', and they kept going."

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/mar/17/society.martinamis1

[redqueen]

19. ...

Pornography has grown into a $10 billion business — bigger than the NFL, the NBA and Major League Baseball combined — and some of the nation's best-known corporations are quietly sharing the profits.

...

At conventions and other public events, the adult industry tends to portray itself as a happy family promoting shame-free sexual enjoyment. But privately, many performers say the reality is very different.

"There's some unwritten law or agenda out here in Pornoland that … if we tell the truth about what's really going on here, the fan will get turned off," said Ona Zee, a former performer who is now an advocate for reform.

While a hit movie can bring in as much as $1 million — adult movies have a very long shelf life, and can keep selling for years after their initial release — most performers see little of the profits. They are seldom paid residuals, and often get only a flat fee. The fees vary from $350 to $1,000 for a conventional sex scene to a few thousand dollars for more extreme sex.

...

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132001&page=1&singlePage=true

[LeftyMom]

20. I'd love to talk about women as workers, and how to better meet their needs.

I don't see how stigmatizing or banning their jobs does that, we know that underground economies tend to make things worse for women.

I think this is thought provoking: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/12/who-speaks-for-women-work-adult-industry

[redqueen]

22. I let these women speak for themselves.

I won't apologize for prioritizing the women who have been raped while working for kink.com over the women who insist the most important thing is that they keep getting fat checks from kink.com


I've spent too much time on this already and it's wasted effort anyway, I'm sure.

[LeftyMom]

23. But you're not listening to the women who have positive experiences,

or just could-be-improved experiences. You have a conclusion and only the evidence that supports it is valid. Even if that "evidence" comes from people who absolutely hate women and hate sex.

[ismnotwasm]

25. Are you talking about positive experiences from being trafficked?

Or working in pornography?

[ismnotwasm]

15. Here

http://www.stopdemand.org/wawcs0153445/HOME.html

Unfortunately, Faith-based groups are some of the few very involved in stopping sexual trafficking. Not all are anti-choice, but far too many are. I was sick to my stomach when I was in a second hand store and heard of a march against sexual slavery on a Christian radio.

Why was I sick? Because where was my progressive community? Where was the outrage? Why is every discussion about this turned into a morality play; when it really is-- as this New Zealand site points out, about supply and demand, with no concern or care about the women or children involved.

[redqueen]

17. I dare not quote any of Shelley Lubben's resources.

She's a Christian and so she's probably making it all up!

Lies! Prude lies!

This place sometimes...

The priorities on display...


And CFLDem stop PMing me - I've blocked you now and I don't give a fuck what you think.

[LeftyMom]

21. Fundies have latched onto "anti-trafficking" efforts as their new way to save people from sex.

They don't give a shit about people who are trafficked to mule drugs or pick lettuce, which should be your first clue that their motives are suspect.

[ismnotwasm]

24. It's a money thing-- they do that with AIDs in Africa too.

But, I'm not talking just about about fundies. I'm talking about faith based groups. Extremists of any religious stripe can kiss my ass.


My point was, these groups are by and large the only organized groups fighting trafficking besides feminists, and a few men's groups. Progressives apparently don't give a shit-- Lest they be branded "anti- sex"
It makes me sick.

[Flatulo]

26. Wait - is this guy actually trying to get men to stop jacking off?

You'd have much better luck trying to get monkeys to stop.

When we were kids, we'd whack off to a deck of cards with women's bloomers on the back.

As long as there are dirty pictures anywhere in the universe, and as long as mens' arms can reach their wieners, there will be jacking off to porn.

And by the way - that guy jacks off to porn. I can guarantee that with 100% certainty. You know how I know? Because he's drawing breath and has an arm.

[gollygee]

29. Why is it

that whenever people say anything negative about porn, someone thinks they're talking about masturbation. Those are two different subjects.

[Flatulo]

30. Does porn have any other uses?

Of course, masturbation is possible without porn; one just uses one's imagination. But the primary reason that people look at it is to facilitate masturbation.

[gollygee]

31. As you say

Masturbation is possible without porn, so disliking porn (and more specifically for this group, disliking the contemporary practice of very violent porn) does not mean disliking masturbation.

[Flatulo]

32. I've never considered rough or forced porn to be

tittilating in the least. The thing is, the line can be somewhat fuzzy.

Is the woman (or man) being coerced in any way? Are they under the influence of intoxicants? I think most halfway alert adults can detect this.

I think one action that might help would be to identify the studios, labels or directors who have a proven track record of producing coercive porn, and shining a big light on them. If more people knew that lives were being ruined for their enjoyment, maybe they'd alter their viewing habits and stick with the mom and pop stuff, or content that has established itself as purveying only non-coercive material.

There will always be customers who will crave violent porn, or beastiality, or dominance, shitting, or whatever.

As for myself, porn does nothing for me these days. The medications I'm on have sent every vestige of my libido packing, never to return.

On edit: I know this is an explosive subject here, and I appreciate being spoken to with civility. Thanks.

[KitSileya]

27. As an aside, I see that in GD, there are 3 threads on porn on the front page.

None of them were started by posters who have also started threads in HoF, i.e., they are not 'HoFers'. Wanna bet how long it'll take until 'HoFers' are accused of mass posting porn threads again?

...getting very cynical about DU....

[intaglio]

28. Porn can fuel human trafficking

The important word is "can" it can also supply income for organised crime - neither of these is a necessary consequence of the Porn industry any more than slavery was a necessary consequence of the cotton and tobacco plantation or that alcohol was caused criminal enterprise to be involved with its distribution.

Firstly, there are some few people; male, female, and gender variant; who are sexually exhibitionist and enjoy displaying themselves.

Secondly there are those who find the sexual act (of whatever variety) pleasurable but unimportant and uninvolving, they may feel that work in that area is no different from any other type of acting.

Thirdly and most disturbingly there are those who undertake (or are forced into) this work for economic reasons. Unfortunately these are the vulnerable who work for peanuts or drugs when they are paid at all. It is these vulnerable people who must be protected.

One thing that has to be discussed whether porn harms or women or men by it's very existence. My answer is that in the main and as it currently exists it does, this does not mean all porn is harmful but that the majority of it is. Is reform possible? possibly. I am sure that there are responsible corporate film makers but it may come down to the "Mom and Pop" film makers working the internet for their personal profit and enjoyment to lead any revolution.