I wonder if this might help with those who choose to watch pornography...

[Gravitycollapse]

I will admit now that I do. I just wanted to clear that up since I'm making a recommendation.

Once you're done watching, take a minute to perform a mental exercise. Picture the men and women you just watched performing either common tasks of life or loving routines with you or someone else. If you find a resistance to this imagery, maybe it is time to consider whether or not the pornography you watch is healthy. If there is little or no resistance to the imagery, take a moment further to use that imagery to humanize the performer.

Pornography has its origins in erotic social commentary which often made fun of the male establishment and its rules. It wasn't so violent and hate-filled as it is now. Can we make our way back to an old pornography that is also new which exemplifies the humanity of eroticism, even the ironic comedy of it all, rather than violence and domination?

I'm kind of just thinking out loud. So your input is needed as well.

[seabeyond]

1. our young men cannot get it up with real women and our young women

are not wanting to hook up with men hooked on porn. otherwise, go for it.

personally, ... i am tired of living in a world where men are so obsessed with their porn, and use it so often, that their world view, in the real world is thru eyes that see all us as their porn. we see it repeatedly anymore.

and again, i will say. i had a poster create his own little rape porn scenario for me.... for his own entertainment and enjoyment. so

i think i will just say, no thanks

i have absolutely no patience with it any more.

pretty much went beyond the civility of it when i got to listen to men tell me how much fun they have with their rape porn.

no interest. in your experience with porn. at all. not a little.

and when you assure me no one is being hurt and forced, you will be going a step in the right direction. no kidnapped kid, woman.

[Gravitycollapse]

5. Feminist pornography does exist. Although it is vastly outpaced.

It plays on equitable roles, loving and fun acts that aren't painful or forced and mutual respect.

[seabeyond]

7. but that is not what the vast majority of men watch, want or get off on. they want denigration,

submission, humiliation, degradation. and they must have an escalation of the pain, and violence and humiliation they give to the girls. otherwise, it just is stale, old and boring and does no more for them than a real woman.

and that hurts women and our girls.

and it hurts our men and our boys.

it doesnt work for me.

[Ligyron]

25. Wait a minute sea ...

How do you know what the vast majority of men watch, want or get off on? Hell, even as a male I don't have access to that detailed info. Do you have a study on this we can link to?

BTW, I agree that porno whose main objective is to denigrate women (or men, I imagine) hurts everyone - even those who enjoy watching such crap.

[seabeyond]

29. 87% of the mainstream hetero porn is violent, degrading, humiliating, submissive, with women.

now, when i read from several sources that percentage of porn is degrading, violent, humiliating women, it leads me to believe it is what men like to get off on.

oh.... and i read comments the big porn produces have said... about what they make for hetero male and how that have to continue to escalate. oh... and there is the hour long video from jensen. well, fuck... the info is readily available. if you listen, pay attention.

[Ligyron]

32. I'll take your word for it.

I just don't watch much porn anymore since I grew up. I know some people are addicted to it, and like a lot of addictive behavior, it prob takes a larger dose or more intense acts to satisfy.

[seabeyond]

34. lol... lig

well. agree or not. you made me laugh. just a little breath of chuckle... "don't watch much porn anymore since I grew up."

that is a lot of people. most people.

ya. makes sense.

[TXPaganBanker]

52. I don't know that it's unique, but

My wife and I watch very different types of porn. I'm more into porn comedy (Pirates, and mostly for the horrible acting. I'm big into B movies). My wife likes porn that's more "intense". She's into everything from hair pulling, choking, slapping, etc. because she's into rougher sex than I am comfortable with. I don't watch it with her, because frankly, it's not something that gets me going and some of it makes me uncomfortable. (I still don't see how duck noises are sexy).

One thing that I do see when she watches it, are the "after interviews" with the actresses, about how they had a great time, they had fun pushing their limits, and they know that they weren't in any danger because it was just a scene that they agreed to, set the limits on, and ultimately, had the power to pull the plug on any time.

So, is it just for men? No. Some of it is for women that want to push their limits, "experience everything", and know that they are in control.

[Phlem]

2. ...

[seabeyond]

3. you know what phlem. i think i will talk to the hosts tomorrow about a new rule. no popcorn.

in our threads, in HOF. i think i will put it up to a vote for the hof members, if we want antagonists coming into our group and playing their little popcorn game. what do you think? think that is a good rule, seeing how disrespectful you are purposely being?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. I second the motion.

[seaglass]

11. Hey sea - excellent idea. Me three. :-)

[Phlem]

13. And I am not surprised.

Disrespectful?

Ha!

Pot meet kettle.

[seabeyond]

14. thank you for making clear your intent, letting all know we got it right.

And I am not surprised.
View profile
Disrespectful?

Ha!

Pot meet kettle.

you did not need the popcorn. we are respectful in this group. see... even in disagreement. and if a person cannot be respectful. they are gone. that simple. we accept no less.

[Phlem]

16. yup.

If it doesn't agree with you, ban it. I know, I answered a post about has anyone lived through marriage abuse. I answered yes but got my post hidden because it would run against the poster's intent.

If it doesn't agree with "You", ban it, period.

I'll do you one better.

I'll ban you from my life.

So happy I don't have to hear this noise anymore.

Goodby.

[seabeyond]

17. it is about being respectful. and this would be what, the third time i have mentioned that word.

safe haven. from disrespect.

[LanternWaste]

54. You seem rather hysterical, shrill and irrational.

You seem rather hysterical, shrill and irrational. Maybe we've caught you on a bad-hair day?

[Phlem]

58. Oh, ok then.

Goodnight.

[Sheldon Cooper]

59. Goodbye, indeed.

You come into a protected group, show your ass, and then get all umbraged when you are called on your buffoonery? Lol the irony!

[Phlem]

60. I came into this thread to see the discussion and what the replies might be.

Some one turned my popcorn smiley into something it wasn't, then you all jump on me for something someone else took and misrepresented me for, something that was never my intent.

Lol, the irony indeed.

That is what happens around here anymore. Things are made up about someone and the rest you rain shit on them.

Work on your logic Sheldon.



-p

[Phlem]

61. This is the only group on DU I know of that can turn the "popcorn smiley face" into

something twisted and demented.



-p

[msanthrope]

62. 2-5 leave.

On Wed May 28, 2014, 08:20 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I came into this thread to see the discussion and what the replies might be.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=44270

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is really over the top to come into a safe haven group and repeatedly attack the members. This poster is obviously just disrupting.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed May 28, 2014, 08:30 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sounds like an issue for the Hosts
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Re: Safe Haven... that's what the hosts here are for. Not juries. HoF has zero problem blocking everyone who disagrees with them, they can do it to this guy too.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Who alerted on this?????
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a silly alert.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: In context of the subthread, I agree.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Sheldon Cooper]

65. For some reason you are not yet blocked from this group, and I intend to check in with the hosts to

request that. But in the meantime, since your smiley was so terribly misinterpreted, why don't you explain exactly what you meant by it? I mean, go into detail and tell us precisely how it was NOT meant to be disrespectful. I'm curious to see what you come up with.

And then tell us why you keep doubling down after being told by several people that your behavior, in a protected group, is inappropriate and rude.

[geek tragedy]

63. .

[Phlem]

64. Thanks!

By

-p

[ismnotwasm]

4. I don't like it

Most of it is poorly done and exploitative, although I've seen porn rise to the level of the erotic.

Now me, I'll read erotic literature, it seems to flesh out (no pun intended) what is missing or unerotic or exploitative in porn or just plan repulsive. The "Story of O" -- while considered erotica, is to me a very sad story of a women trying to find power through sexuality

(I'm not saying there isn't crap written porn out there--I've read my share unfortunately)

I don't think there is visual "old pornography" outside of a David Lynch film maybe -- which, while erotic, Isn't porn. Go back to Victorian "underground porn" and because of sexual mores of the time there is a surprising amount of SMBD, and attention to either preserve the virginity of young women, or turn her into a prostitute.

The problem boils down to that word again-- misogyny. When women are viewed only for the eyes of men, and pornography reflects that. A look at the purchasers of porn is in the 18 to 34 demographic. It refuses to promote safe sex, lesbian porn is bought mostly by young white males, in other words, the misogyny and hatred come from societies gender inbalances. Until those balances are corrected, I think we'll see more exploitative porn. As a purchaser, I think you can help by vetting what you watch or buy, speak out, as you do, against trafficking and encourage condom use amount actors by writing letters or emails.

Porn has the capacity to be joyful and erotic, I just can't see how at this period in history

[Gravitycollapse]

6. "I just can't see how at this period in history" - That is the problem...

Until society changes, pornography will not change. But there have to be ways to resist.

[ismnotwasm]

33. I look at it this way

It's consumerism like a lot of consumerism, the purchaser is offered a extremely limited variety of choices. Like certain clothes made in the sweat shops of a developing nation and sold at Target or Wallmart.

When I look at what's offered in porn. It's many combinations of the same thing, not real choices at all. All political opinions aside-- it bores me.

The first thing that pisses me off when I get political, is the emphasis on youth, often claiming to be underage, (but not really-- just kidding folks. )This is looped around, I believe in the constant sexualization of young women, who are not taught anything else about being 'sexy' other than to stay virginal.

The next thing that pisses me off is the blatant racism. Pornography gets away with more racist crap than any other media. It reinforces every racial stereotype possible.

Then there's the objectification, and the degradation that seems so popular, women are posed just so, look just so, and are receivers of acts that are fetishzed more and more. In male Gay porn, I've found much the same thing-- a lot of dominance displays, a lot of youth, a lot of racism.

I have a friend who bought some art made from an erotic poem. It's a Native American couple. She straddles him on a chair, both are naked, and he is braiding her hair. It's intensely erotic, because it conveys anticipation, sexual attention, erotic touch.

What porn gives us is a dumbed done version of sex and the erotic. The back way I see see fighting back are finding those small companies that are trying for the erotic, rather than instant gratification. There are a few out here.

Oh-- and one more complaint, the orgasm. Many women take time to orgasm, in porn you'd think it's about 5 minutes or so. There are also old sexual techniques were orgasm isn't where the goal is at all, more of a building up of erotic tension and then you ride the waves of sensitized nerves, for a long time--you may or may not orgasm, but it's as deeply satisfying. This in contrast to building and release, building and release. Same old shit--I don't care how many sex toys someone owns.
Porn teaches us not to take our time, not to savor to body erotica so to speak, but to fetishize body parts.

It's a difficult question and a challenging one.

[wryter2000]

12. The Story of O

Egad. I tried to read it twice. Horrible, horrible, horrible. Gag-inducing.

I hope it doesn't break any rules to mention I'm published in erotica and erotic romance. I have a woman-focused series of erotic novellas coming out this September.

[seabeyond]

19. coolest. and i thought we taked years ago. or maybe not. maybe it was another

romance author....

[wryter2000]

20. It could have been me.

I've been writing for damned ever.

I'm Alice Gaines

[seabeyond]

23. too fuggin funny

i went into fantastic fiction. a fav site of mine that gives me all the writing of an author, nad it is very user friendly and orderly. i put in your name and go to adult section, i have to sign up and account jsut to look at your books. i did not know that even exists. that is great.

[wryter2000]

48. I didn't know about that, either

I see my Avon novellas. I would guess the next series will show up there, too.

I have to confess Avon is part of Harper Collins, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. I don't have a whole lot of choice about that, although I'm starting to dabble in self-publishing.

[ismnotwasm]

22. I don't read French

But I understand in the original language, it's much better-- the translation is horrid.

But the story still comes across as a tragedy to me, more than an erotic tale

[ismnotwasm]

43. Cool

I enjoy good erotica, but there are a lot of lazy bad writers out there.

[wryter2000]

49. I promise I'm not lazy

Good is another question.

[xfundy]

9. To hell with porn

live cams like chaturbate.com and other amateur cams are so much better.

[dawg]

10. I think our society takes things that are beautiful ...

and turns them into things that are selfish and degrading. Some people like it that way.

[mahina]

47. and commodifies everything,

Even us.

[CFLDem]

15. Doubtful

Porn is violent and degrading because many/most people are violent and want to degrade.

It's just the world we live in.

[seabeyond]

21. stop. stop dismissing women and our issues. you have been away and taunt me in pms with the c word

why you are allowed to do that, i do not know. but no....

the smarmy does not work here.

you men cannot handle it at all if it even appears, women may be taking the littlest of steps forward. you just gotta ...

well. i can not say the obvious. it would be a hide.

you do not belong in this group.

[redqueen]

24. Did you alert on that PM?

I got a nasty one that when I tried to alert on it, it disappeared saying something about him being flagged for review.

I got another one later which is when I blocked PMs from him

[seabeyond]

26. exactly. i had never alerted before. so, i did not know what would happen.

seems all that happens is the pm disappears from our box. wow... call me not impressed, at all.

[seabeyond]

27. so, serial scum pming, and meh... not a big enough deal.

is that what is being said?

i mean. i have had men threaten me in pms. and i never alerted. cause i figured nothing would happen. looks like. good to know.

[redqueen]

28. It does seem like a very *odd* bug. nt

[seabeyond]

30. here would be an email of his i got just this moment. seems pretty confident he is protected or

something

CFLDem
Are you ok sea?
Mail Message
You seem overly paranoid and easily upset.

It's very disconcerting. I just want to let you know its ok to ask for help if you think you need it. No judgement here.

Be well.

[redqueen]

31. Wow.

Alert on it, too.

Maybe EarlG will be able to see the PM with the C word despite it having disappeared.

[seabeyond]

35. maybe it is an ATA question, but i think that they might just automatically

delete out of the complainers pms when alerted on.

i assumed they got the alert. and there answer is to wipe it out of out box. problems solved.

[redqueen]

36. Sure but if they're aware of his PMing you, goading you with it...

and now again with this, ... how much shit has to happen before it's considered harassment?

[seabeyond]

37. ya. i kinda thought taunting a feminist with the c word in pms

would be considered harassment.

[redqueen]

38. And did you notice his vote in tygrbright's turd of a poll? nt

[seabeyond]

39. "male hating bitches" yes. i did. jury... this was the description of feminists

in a poll, in gd, that was allowed to stand. how us feminists were describe and the poll we are talking about.

just sayin.... so you are clued in.

[ismnotwasm]

56. Some bodies transparency page is showing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=305929&sub=trans

[seabeyond]

57. wow. and aaaaah. too sad. lol. thanks. i wazzz clueless. nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

66. Yeah, I just opened a pathetic email from him

and noticed that he's now blocked for a few months. He's also blocked from my email now, so CFLDem - if you're reading, and I know you are - don't bother writing back. LOL!

[JTFrog]

55. That's the world you live in inside your head.

For fuck's sake I can't believe the shit you have sent to members of this group.

You should be banned from DU for life.

[LanternWaste]

67. Are you ok CFL? You seem overly hysterical, irrational, shrill, and easily upset.

Are you ok CFL? You seem overly hysterical, irrational, shrill, and easily upset.

It's very disconcerting. I just want to let you know its ok to ask for help if you think you need it. No judgement here.

[Sheldon Cooper]

68. He can't respond because he's resting now.

You can expect an email from him shortly, though. That's apparently his MO.

[redqueen]

18. Where are you getting that "roots of pornography" information?

The word literally means the documentation of prostitution.

Anyway, just gonna share two things here. I hope the sources are ok with everyone!

&feature=kp

I'm pretty tired of any feminist critique of porn, in order for it to be seen as valid, the author is expected to like pornography and heartily endorse it in a disclaimer. The happy, fun, consent-filled, queer and woman-friendly stuff we see on the internet is a rarity compared to the hateful (not a strong enough word) disgusting and degrading reality that is the whole picture. Say you have a pizza, and 14 out of 16 slices are covered in broken glass and dog shit, but two slices are cheesy and perfectly delicious. If I'm reviewing it, should I have to make some statement about how great those pieces fit for human consumption were? Should I support Pope Benedicto's Dog Shit N Broken Glass Pizza Parlour because they manage to make two edible slices of pizza per pie? It not only distorts the reality of the situation, but also seriously diminishes the pain and suffering of the vast majority of human beings who've actually been through it (eaten pizza/been involved in the pornography industry.)

[ismnotwasm]

40. Want to know what cracks me up?

I've seen discussion of porn, where they proudly post pictures of ancient statuary, either naked or in sexual acts-- and think this is old pornography, rather than depictions of either religious rites or Gods/Goddesses, with profound meaning to the people at the time.

They actually think that.

[seabeyond]

41. yes. academics will argue. lol. but do not let that get in the way of porn lovers

to own those little naked statues.

[redqueen]

44. It's really quite sad.

To be that desperate...must be awful.

[seabeyond]

42. btw... this video is the best ever. from this perspective. nt

[CrispyQ]

45. My input on porn from another post.

I know it's anecdotal, but it was an eye opening evening.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=43681

We had a wine night a few weeks ago & there was 56 year old me, married to the same man for 27 years & listening to 30+ single women talk about men & dating.

Some comments I heard:

> "I consider a guy good in bed if he can get it up." (Lots of laughing at that one.)

> "I asked my BF if he wanted to do it in front of the computer so he could finally come." (Lots of heads nodding at that one.)

> "I asked my BF if I was supposed to be okay with him preferring porn over me, then would he mind if I found a guy that preferred me over porn?" She said her BF belligerently responded with, "What, are you breaking up with me?"

Two of the women were married like me & grateful they weren't single anymore. I came home & told my 60+ year old husband everything & we laughed cuz we still have a rollicking good time without any problems.

I know this is just anecdotal, but for people who claim porn isn't a problem, I believe they are wrong.

From what I've read, today's porn isn't anything like the porn I saw back in the early 80's.

[seabeyond]

46. this would be my point. what i am hearing and seeing also. nt

[Blue_Adept]

51. There's definitely differences

I've been watching since the mid 80's when I was... oh, thirteen or so? My father used to rent tapes and make copies of them and my curiosity had me sneaking them while my parents were at work so I could feed that curiosity.

A lot of stuff back then was "story" driven, but that fell off in the 90's with the amateur stuff that started filling up the scene since it was cheaper to produce.

The same thing can be said about any entertainment though. Movies aren't what they were in the 80's. Books aren't. Games aren't. Lots of differences, good and bad across the board.

That said, I watch a lot of porn today as well. Unlike then, and during other parts of my adult years, the sample size is much larger as to what you want to watch. To say it's all violent and degrading obviously isn't true, but it is for some as to them all porn is violent and degrading. There are a good number of women that run companies and do the productions which is part of the whole female-friendly angle. Of course, there are women that don't like that and there are men that do like that. I actually like a lot of the "female friendly" stuff because it tends to get more artsy, like what the folks at X-Art produce and some of the other places.

Like most vices, it's a problem for those without the control to deal with it. If it wasn't porn, it'd probably be something else devastating to their lifestyle.

[jakeXT]

50. It's interesting that early porn movies depicting the use of vibrators led to its stigmatization.

Depicting reality led to losing the social camouflage the vibrator still had, because all men realized what it was used for.
It disappeared from catalogs and went underground.