History of Feminism
Related: About this forumHuman Rights.
As if, some people did not even know Human Rights existed and that it is world wide cause.
It was a huge joke to some which, is a good thing, I guess.
Laughter is good, right? Jokes are fun and, I like to laugh and have a good time.
I think some people were educated. I hope so.
I think some people learned something in that thread.
In the end, I think that thread was a good thing.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)believe that men have human rights is so beyond stupid.
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 4, 2014, 07:41 AM - Edit history (1)
That we make a serious effort not to extend intra-feminist or feuds between women into HOF. I think these personal grudges have gotten way too toxic, and I'd like to see us all do our part to move beyond them.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)for human beings. i need more than a couple days to get past that.
soon. maybe... lol
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)Worse than Hitler or Pol Pot?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)she clarified to say, she did not mean many of us women are the worst people ever. just a few of us are worst people ever.
like. cool. all better. lol
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)I haven't even killed anyone.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)few
ya
but this one? no names. we get to guess which of us are the worst people .... evah
Squinch
(53,487 posts)(I say "you" because I imagine I'm not on the list because I'm not well known enough.) But that's an apology?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)us the worst people ever. list on another site. people saying nasty shit about hof.
and what they are all pissed about is how mean we are
hm
sexually shaming women
saying we are worst people ever
creating lists of us
calling us nasty names
and we are the problem?
?e6256f
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)I will have to say there is a divide.
I think my motivation behind this OP was to help close the divide, Heal past hurts and, mend some hard feelings.
I am tired of it all.
Things have been said in the heat of "battle" ---
Some things said have been worse than others
(because I totally understand the difference between slander and insult)
I am going to do my best to not engage or allow myself to be drawn into it anymore.
I apologize for my part in it.
That is all I can do.
sea, I would hope that the people who said those things to you and about you could find a way to atone/apologize for them.
Violet_Crumble
(36,155 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 8, 2014, 08:57 AM - Edit history (1)
I don't know if I ever have said anything harsh to you, but if I have, I'm apologising to you for it. I do think after reading yr posts that I judged you too quickly, and I am sorry for that, Tuesday...
While Bain's call for a truce is a good thing that I fully support, it's bound for failure unless everyone gets on board, and it's clear a few from both 'factions' of the divide wouldn't be on board with it. All we can do as individuals is decide for ourselves what's more important - discussing actual issues or spending their time following a trail of posts about who called who what and who hates who and so and so called me this. If there's links included, by the time you get to the end of it, you feel like you've just been watching the Hatfields and McCoys in action, and many times yr still none the wiser about what most of it's about. So I'm doing the same thing as you. I'm going to try to avoid engaging in any of that other stuff from now on and engage with those who are interested in discussing feminism. There's many of them in this group and out in GD, so I don't think it's going to be difficult to do. Because one_voice, a DUer I respect a fair bit, made a similar point about there being many DUers in this group who do offer valuable commentary on feminism that she enjoys reading and learns from.
*peace*
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)The Issue of Human Rights and the world wide effort taking place to ensure that all people everywhere are treated decently and with respect no matter what their race or sex.
Peace.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)couple of women you do not like.
otherwise, you women. thumbs up.
you are on board for the peace thing
but you know... those nasty couple women? they wont be any help at all with this peace thing.
so my question is.
this is your idea of a peace, thing?
and who is it you are talking that are the worst people ever? since you brought one voice into it.
please
answer.
who are these nasty ugly women?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)BainsBane
(55,074 posts)and even if everyone doesn't participate in a cessation of hostilities, the more who do, the better. Each of us only has power to control our own actions. After that, we have to let it go.
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)and there is far more to it. I never read it at the time. Excuse me, but I'm in shock that anyone would write such a thing. I don't intend to fan flames, but it is very upsetting to be the target of that level of hatred. I'm going to need a bit to process it. I do know that I will not respond in kind and will instead move on for the well-being of this group and myself. The toxicity will not be coming from me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Even if I don't always agree with your approach to certain threads, I find you to be one of the more intelligent, thoughtful posters on DU - certainly more of an asset than any of the people who irrationally despise you. All I can think is that they must be projecting their own issues onto you, or rather a strawman version of you.
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)BainsBane
(55,074 posts)More important than anything else I can think of. And those rights of course extend to both men and women. That, however, has absolutely nothing to do with the Men's Rights Movement.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)All people have rights as Human Beings without people conflating it with the Men's Rights Movement.
Men need community and support and society throughout life.
They have rights just like everyone else. Their rights do not supersede anyone else's rights.
That other people have and are gaining rights does not mean that men are losing theirs.
It just means that everyone is equal in the eyes of government/society. All People have the right to go through life being judged by their merit and not their sex and/or race.
I don't get what is so hard to understand about all this.
and Baines, I started this thread with good intentions. No malice intended.
I am sorry for my part in the bad feelings on DU.
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)I didn't mean to suggest you did. I've just had my fill of the bickering.
I find unfortunate the idea that advancing feminism involves taking away men's rights. I don't understand what they are thinking of when they say that. Why rights are we supposedly trying to take away?
boston bean
(36,539 posts)All the HoF this, HoF that, HoF makes DU suck.
Well I think all that talk makes DU fucking suck and it has been not stop attacks like that for years.
Screw it. People will deal the way they deal. They want to look at others, but never themselves. I've seen you out there pointing out the hypocrisy. Don't think that you never mentioning anything again will ever help to heal this. it won't because they DON'T fucking STOP.
Just my experience.
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)It's in a thread by ancianita, and deals with a number of important issues, including tactics used to try to silence feminists.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017195111
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Even on YouTube .... it just keeps on loading and loading ... and ... loading ... and ...
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)I have no trouble watching the video.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)I thought I was current but maybe not.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,486 posts)Peace or not, there is no "men's group" even close to feminism or what feminism has accomplished.
(Edit-- not a criticism, I'm barely aware of the group)
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)TMG on DU vs HoF on DU. What has gone on between the two groups. Nothing more.
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)isn't from TMG. It's from other women, and I would really like to see it stop. Even if they don't stop, couldn't we play a role by not furthering it along? Let's disagree on ideas rather than making it about people.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)taking the heat for something -I- said. I take full credit for what I said. Always have. I have tried multiple times to explain it.
The post went to jury. The jury allowed it.
Am I supposed to apologize for a jury?
Am I supposed to stay quiet when people make a joke about a World Wide Effort to bring about something as basic as Human Rights?
All this time I have been saying that the Feminist Movement is part of the Human Rights Issue.
Imagine my surprise to see Human Rights in quotes and people on DU poking fun at something as important and basic as human dignity.
Baines, it was a Real WHAT THE FUCK moment for me.
I want it to stop and Stop Now. The shit going on. It is beyond stupid.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)repeatedly about how horrible it is that some feminists on DU seem to attack other women.
While they, themselves, are engaged in full blown direct personal attacks.
I can't even process that level of hypocrisy. I literally do not know how to run that through my brain and make sense of it.
Yeah, I have backed the hell away from that, hard.
ismnotwasm
(42,486 posts)I've been at work (12 hour shifts(
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,486 posts)She or he is in the company of 5 other people. The rest are serial OP posters I'm just tired of seeing all the time.
I think I'll take everybody off and see what DU looks like and go back to just trashing threads. I hate missing stuff like that.
Ok everybody's off. I just thought I'd use ignore to see what happens-- one will go back on right away because I KNOW he's a troll, but I'll give him a chance
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)There is some/ a lot of ugly in that thread but, I see a small step towards hope and education. A small ray of light.
Violet_Crumble
(36,155 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 4, 2014, 07:46 AM - Edit history (1)
I tried using ignore once, but found I was missing half the discussions that were going on around me, coz this was a reasonably regular poster in a small forum. Now I just use the soft ignore, which involves much more self-restraint, but also means I don't miss out on seeing something being said by someone I didn't think much of that really impresses me and changes how I feel...
I thought I'd post a link to the apology one_voice made in GD to DUers who hang out in HoF about something she'd said, coz it sunk pretty quickly and people may have missed seeing it.
In this post http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5024799 I said this
You and many others in HoF are some of the worst people I've ever come across.
I was wrong to say this. Worst was one of the worst word to use. There are so many more worse things past/present and I'm sure future. To the women of HoF I apologize, you certainly are not the worst. I would like to point out that I wasn't speaking about all of HoF but my words did affect all of them as well as others on DU.
I would like to think I'm better than what I was in that moment, but we all have our moments. I've always been able to apologize when I'm wrong, even if it's not right away, it will happen. It doesn't matter if *I* think I'm wrong (in this case I do) if I've ever been the cause of someone's pain I will apologize.
I was and am very frustrated and disappointed by a lot of what I see going on here; those are the words I should have used. I will continue to point out things I disagree with, hypocrisy when I see it, and I will stick up for people that *I* believe have been wronged.
Having said that, I hope you accept my apologize it is given with sincerity.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025039612
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 4, 2014, 03:46 PM - Edit history (3)
But she didn't mean to offend the rest who aren't quite Hitler or Pol Pot?
And why are we so terrible? We don't like porn and Sports Illustrated? That makes us akin to mass murderers and perpetuators of genocide?
Edit: I only just read her post to me now. I never read it at the time because I had had enough of the toxic bickering. You'll have to give me a bit to deal with something so abusive. Obviously if I had read it I would have alerted on it. I do not think you can find anything I've ever said that approaches that level. I really don't care about her apologies. What I would like is to simply be left alone.
Violet_Crumble
(36,155 posts)BainsBane
(55,074 posts)for this group and our well-being as individuals is to ignore personal insults rather than fanning the flames in HOF. It is not easy to do, but the opposite achieves nothing and is a complete waste of energy. The ideas and issues regular posters in this group care about are far more important.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Please.
BainsBane
(55,074 posts)(Sorry, Violet's link was the first I'd seen that comment).
Edit: Even then I hadn't seen the original post about which she is apologizing. It is truly shocking.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)That's what's shocking. You lectured me and others about not "commenting" on the vile, disgusting post against sea, and then when someone apologizes to you and extends an olive branch you want nothing to do with it?
She never posted 'you are the worst people in the world' or compare you to Hitler or Pol Pot. You posted that above. This is what she posted:
'You and many others in HoF are some of the worst people I've ever come across.' If you need to read it again to know I'm not lying, here it is:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5024799
She then apologizes for making that statement in this OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025039612
For someone that wants a "truce" you certainly don't act like it.
seaglass
(8,181 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 5, 2014, 11:09 AM - Edit history (1)
redqueen
(115,173 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)I can accept apologies and move on.
I was just responding honestly after being asked "can I give it some time?"
Maybe that was a tad sarcastic, so I apologize for it and will even delete the comment.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Human Rights are not a joke. That attempt by one person to say that men as a class are being excluded from inclusion in human rights because of nasty women was so wrong headed that I had to chime in
Mens Rights Activists and their apologists are also not a joke precisely because they insist on restricting the rights of others in the name of the personal freedom of men only.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)post in that thread.
oh cool.
when told there was such a thing as Human Rights Day.
oh cool.
Small comfort, I know but, a ray of light was cast onto the darkness with those two words.
With those two words I must try and build peace on DU.
for myself.
For myself only, I seek peace.
All others must find their peace somehow. I chose to find it in those two words.
Some people will probably never sincerely apologize for their part in all this. That is their choice. Some people will probably never accept my apology that is their choice. Some people probably have me on ignore and will never know I apologized. So be it.
I can not control the world only my actions and my responsibility in all this.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)The Symbol
The Human Rights Campaign logo is one of the most recognizable symbols of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. It has become synonymous with the fight for equal rights for LGBT Americans.
The logo unveiled in fall 1995 helped usher in a new era for the organization, which had previously been known as the Human Rights Campaign Fund. When HRCF was founded in 1980, it was primarily a fund for supporting pro-fairness congressional candidates. The rebranding in 1995 announced to the country that, in the words of then- Executive Director Elizabeth Birch, "We're so much more than a fund."
The logo was the final touch on a complete reorganization of HRC. In addition to the well-established lobbying and political action committee capabilities, new Foundation programs including the Workplace Project and Family Project were added. All of HRC's research, communications, marketing and public relations functions were broadly expanded. HRC began a long period of robust growth and became respected as one of the largest and most effective mainstream advocacy organizations in the country. As Birch would often say, "A logo is only as meaningful as the hard work and standard of excellence it represents."
The new name and logo reflected the wider goals and influence of the organization, which grew in strength to now spread the message of equality to every corner of the country.
The United Nations' (UN) Human Rights Day is annually observed December 10 to mark the anniversary of the presentation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
What do people do?
Events focused on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights are held worldwide on and around December 10. Many events aim to educate people, especially children and teenagers, on their human rights and the importance of upholding these in their own communities and further afield.
The day may also include protests to alert people of circumstances in parts of the world where the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is not recognized or respected, or where the importance of these rights are not considered to be important. Cultural events are also organized to celebrate the importance of human rights through music, dance, drama or fine art.
Public life
Human Rights Day is a global observance and not a public holiday.
Background
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was drafted between January 1947 and December 1948. It aimed to form a basis for human rights all over the world and represented a significant change of direction from events during World War II and the continuing colonialism that was rife in the world at the time. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is considered as the most translated document in modern history. It is available in more than 360 languages and new translations are still being added.
more at link:
http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/un/human-rights-day
Human rights are basic rights and freedoms that all people are entitled to regardless of nationality, sex, national or ethnic origin, race, religion, language, or other status.
Human rights include civil and political rights, such as the right to life, liberty and freedom of expression; and social, cultural and economic rights including the right to participate in culture, the right to food, and the right to work and receive an education. Human rights are protected and upheld by international and national laws and treaties.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is the foundation of the international system of protection for human rights. It was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on December 10th, 1948. This day is celebrated annually as International Human Rights Day. The 30 articles of the UDHR establish the civil, political, economic, social, and cultural rights of all people. It is a vision for human dignity that transcends political boundaries and authority, committing governments to uphold the fundamental rights of each person. The UDHR helps guide Amnesty International's work.
We also use these principles to help us define human rights and the issues we relentlessly fight for.
more at link:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/human-rights-basics
This section attempts to explain the generic idea of human rights by identifying four defining features. The goal is to answer the question of what human rights are with a general description of the concept rather than a list of specific rights. Two people can have the same general idea of human rights even though they disagree about which rights belong on a list of such rights and even about whether universal moral rights exist. This four-part explanation attempts to cover all kinds of human rights including both moral and legal human rights and both old and new human rights (e.g., both Lockean natural rights and contemporary international human rights). The explanation anticipates, however, that particular kinds of human rights will have additional features. Starting with this generic concept does not commit us to treating all kinds of human rights in a single unified theory (see Buchanan 2013 for an argument that we should not attempt to theorize together universal moral rights and international legal human rights).
(1) Human rights are rights Lest we miss the obvious, human rights are rights (see the entry on rights and Cruft 2012). Most if not all human rights are claim rights that impose duties or responsibilities on their addressees or dutybearers. Rights focus on a freedom, protection, status, or benefit for the rightholders (Beitz 2009). The duties associated with human rights often require actions involving respect, protection, facilitation, and provision. Rights are usually mandatory in the sense of imposing duties on their addressees, but some legal human rights seem to do little more than declare high-priority goals and assign responsibility for their progressive realization. One can argue, of course, that goal-like rights are not real rights, but it may be better to recognize that they comprise a weak but useful notion of a right (See Beitz 2009 for a defense of the view that not all human rights are rights in a strong sense. And see Feinberg 1973 for the idea of manifesto rights). A human rights norm might exist as (a) a shared norm of actual human moralities, (b) a justified moral norm supported by strong reasons, (c) a legal right at the national level (where it might be referred to as a civil or constitutional right), or (d) a legal right within international law. A human rights advocate might wish to see human rights exist in all four ways (See Section 2.1 How Can Human Rights Exist?).
(2) Human rights are plural If someone accepted that there are human rights but held that there is only one of them, this might make sense if she meant that there is one abstract underlying right that generates a list of specific rights (See Dworkin 2011 for a view of this sort). But if this person meant that there is just one such specific right such as the right to peaceful assembly this would be a highly revisionary view. Human rights address a variety of specific problems such as guaranteeing fair trials, ending slavery, ensuring the availability of education, and preventing genocide. Some philosophers advocate very short lists of human rights but nevertheless accept plurality (see Joshua Cohen 2004 and Ignatief 2004).
(3) Human rights are universal All living humansor perhaps all living personshave human rights. One does not have to be a particular kind of person or a member of some specific nation or religion to have human rights. Included in the idea of universality is some conception of independent existence. People have human rights independently of whether they are found in the practices, morality, or law of their country or culture. This idea of universality needs several qualifications, however. First, some rights, such as the right to vote, are held only by adult citizens or residents and apply only to voting in one's own country. Second, the human right to freedom of movement may be taken away temporarily from a person who is convicted of committing a serious crime. And third, some human rights treaties focus on the rights of vulnerable groups such as minorities, women, indigenous peoples, and children.
(4) Human rights have high-priority. Maurice Cranston held that human rights are matters of paramount importance and their violation a grave affront to justice (Cranston 1967). If human rights did not have high priority they would not have the ability to compete with other powerful considerations such as national stability and security, individual and national self-determination, and national and global prosperity. High priority does not mean, however, that human rights are absolute. As James Griffin says, human rights should be understood as resistant to trade-offs, but not too resistant (Griffin 2008). Further, there seems to be priority variation within human rights. For example, when the right to life conflicts with the right to privacy, the latter will generally be outweighed.
more at link:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rights-human/
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)thanks for the info
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Seems there are a lot of DUers unaware of Human Rights and what it means.