Hey HoFers, can I talk about Hillary Clinton with those of you who support her? (HoF group post)

[F4lconF16]

I've read many of your reasons why you're supporting her over the past few months and even years. In a lot of ways, I think I have a pretty good understanding of those reasons. But I feel like I don't in many other ways. I've never had a good, long, in-depth discussion with any of you about it, and I'd like to do so now.

I think it's obvious why I'm posting this here. GD is nuts--racism, sexism, and all around terribleness abound. I'm really looking to listen and hear from people who I respect, and it's hard to do so with constant distraction. Hopefully those of you who are still around will be willing to talk with me.

I am sure I will criticize Clinton during this discussion; to be frank, I don't much like her. But then again, I like very few modern politicians--it's not particularly personal. Being the age that I am, I haven't grown up with her, watching her become dominant in a place few women ever have been, and I have little personal reason to like her or be inspired by her. The women I love listening to and have a lot of respect for are from a different place, a different type of politics, and a different perspective. That all being said, I have no reason to dislike her, either. I'm really quite ambivalent towards her--it's her policies and actions that turn me off.

I say this only to be clear about where I'm coming from in this discussion. I'll also add that while I'm primarily asking about Clinton, I'm not averse to discussing the other current Democratic candidates. I do support Sanders; however, that support is rather limited, and I'm always hesitant to say I do. I have a lot of criticisms of him as well. But this is all beside the point for now.

I'm hoping my record here will encourage people to respond to a question that normally goes unanswered, or answered in mostly vague or hostile terms. I'm not perfect--being a white male, I certainly come from a very different perspective. But I have always done my best to understand and listen, and I will do so now.

With that all said...

Why do you support Hillary Clinton for the presidency?

[mercuryblues]

1. I am undecided

on who I will vote for in the primaries. Clinton appeals to me because of the continuous support for woman's, children and healthcare issues throughout her life and career. Despite what has been said about her sticking her finger in the air and seeing which way the wind blows or she is for it because it is politically expedient. Hogwash. As 1st lady of Arkansas she cofounded Arkansas Advocates for Children & Families. When she was on the WalMart board she made it known that she would focus on the advancement of women and the environment.

HRC is an incredibly intelligent woman. She tends to work within the system to push for change. It would be great to see what she can do when she is in charge of the system. She has been accused of not fighting hard enough for xyz. I see it as, she is acutely aware of being, usually either the 1st or one of the first woman at the table. At times I would like to see her sitting at the head of the table. I also question that if she was elected president if people would turn on her as easily as they did Obama. Not really, reading posts on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND I have no doubt they will attack everything she does and does not do, the vultures are circling waiting to pick.

As there never will be a perfect candidate, I do have reservations voting for her. They are however rooted in fact. Not the made up lying bullshit that she was "cold and calculating" to a mother with a dying child. Then the subsequent OP's created to spread that lie.

Which brings me to Sanders. He has many positives that I like concerning the economy. I would have happily have voted for him if he won the primary. Not so much now. I don't know if it is his popularity has caught him off guard or what. But he seems completely unprepared to address certain issues, until he can't sidestep them any longer. When he does address them he does a great job.

Another thought for me is that when Hillary comes out swinging it is claimed that she is only doing it for political expediency, but Bernie is brave for doing so. To me that is a false comparison.

I have always voted for a candidate as a whole. It has not worked well for women's rights. This election I just may become a single issue voter. I want somebody I can reasonably be assured who will work for and protect my rights as a woman. Someone who will start to put an end to the put an aspirin between your knees crowd. I want someone who will SHUT THEM DOWN.





http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/us/politics/20walmart.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[F4lconF16]

4. Thank you for your response.

My understanding, then, is that you support her for two primary reasons: first, her unflagging dedication to women's and children's issues around the world, and because of her ability to work within the system. Women's rights have historically been ignored and there's a chance that they will continue to be ignored by other candidates (and I agree with that---Sanders still doesn't have a page on those issues on his website).

This, I understand:

I want somebody I can reasonably be assured who will work for and protect my rights as a woman. Someone who will start to put an end to the put an aspirin between your knees crowd. I want someone who will SHUT THEM DOWN.

It's basically what I and my local barista agreed on in a conversation a few days ago. It's time for this crap to stop. Now.

I guess my first question for you would be: do you think Clinton will be outspoken on enough issues? I know you said that you may become a single issue voter this year, and understandably so. But what about things like her positions on matters of law and order, as well as criminal justice? Her record there is undeniably pretty bad, and that's something that I can't get past. Her positions on trade and economic issues aren't great, as with foreign policy, but I get that she's a relatively standard Democratic politician in those areas. I'm more worried about her "tough on crime" stances, as that's something she has pushed strongly over the years. How do you view that, and is that something you're willing to compromise on? I also worry about both her and Bill Clinton's tendency to engage in that "racially tinged" rhetoric, though Bill Clinton was willing to go further than that, unfortunately.

Second, what do you think about her problems with race? I don't mean the stupid OPs posted here slandering her time and time again (goddess, they are tiring), but her "colorblind" support on things like the war on drugs, welfare reform and legislation, and public housing regulation. Given her tough on crime stances, I'm quite worried that she will continue many of Bill Clinton and Obama's harmful initiatives (such as the COPS program, the Byrne grant program, law enforcement budgets, TANF, and the one strike rule for public housing). Do you think she will be more progressive on those issues? I can't see any reason she will, especially given very few Democrats have spoken up on them.

[mercuryblues]

7. A lot of good qestions

Which is why I am glad the primaries are not this week.
I do think she will be outspoken on woman's issues. Lets face it, voting as I have in the past, the candidate as a whole has not gotten women any where. Hell, we are still fighting over birth control pills. WTF? I am freaking sick of it. Getting more D's in congress is imperative for any success in legislation.

On many issues I believe she will be a lateral move from Obama. You will not find any major differences in how they are approached.

I wish I could take the best qualities from HRC, BS and OM and get my dream candidate.

[tishaLA]

2. I'm just impressed that I can still encounter

An OP and response that express my reservations--and ambivalences--about the two candidates. I'm going to watch and read this thread hoping for more.

[ismnotwasm]

3. The short version? Well, she has a complete understanding of politics

American and foreign. She is well known to foreign leaders. She has weathered more shit-storms than I can count-- and that's the ones in the public eye, the most egregarious attacks, that continue to this day. She's a true survivor. She acknowledges mistakes--even though generally, such a well known public figure, she's never forgiven for those mistakes, and in many cases never will be she keeps a steady course forward

Despite what you read from detractors, she has a liberal voting record. Even her IWV (one of her worst mistakes, as was not supporting Gay rights) was in the company of a lot other politicians. It was a lose-lose situation. When you examine her actual record, her votes in our current political system are as they should be.

Her ideas And plans are workable, sensible. They are not glamorous or idealistic, but things that can actually get pass congress--although it will be a battle. (I'm glad she's made criminal justice reform part of her platform, and I hope she listens to O'Malley, who has the most comprehensive plan of all the candidates--I want O'Malley in the public eye--he's awesome)

Her work in congress was tireless, trying to get progressive legislation passed in the face of a balky congress, her steady themes of social justice and fiscal responsibility.
( you can see here)
https://www.congress.gov/member/hillary-clinton/C001041

And finally, her work on woman's right's worldwide. She has done this work for decades--this is not political expediency, this is who she is. I may be an American feminist, but that's not the limit of my vision.

This record gets subsumed by here IWV, and her time as SoS (I would argue, and perhaps you would agree, that to avoid all conflict, to avoid all war, accepting the responsibility of SoS is not how to go about it. In doing so, the best one can do is mitigate conflict, never end it. At least in the current world-wide political climate)

That's the short version

I'm not going to go into too much more detail, nor am I going to defend Hillary against detractors here, although this group is quiet it is divided by members in feelings about candidates. The primaries are temporary

[F4lconF16]

5. Thank you for your response.

It was very helpful. I won't press you any further, as you have indicated you'd rather not within this space. I appreciate it, though.

[mcar]

6. Excellent response ism!

[mercuryblues]

8. exactly

great post

[JTFrog]

9. Thank you. n/t