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LeftishBrit

(41,318 posts)
22. Putin certainly likes to meddle, and certainly dislikes the EU for diluting his power, BUT..
Sun Nov 3, 2019, 10:55 AM
Nov 2019

the seeds of this mess were sown long before Putin. There has been anti-EEC/EU propaganda from the beginning, including considerable exaggeration of the bureacracy of the EU as compared with the UK (I should know; I was more influenced by it than I should have been; only really becoming a Remainer in 2003-04 in reaction to the Blair-Bush collaboration which was mostly opposed by Europaean leaders).

There was opposition to joining the EEC from the beginning. Originally, a lot of it came from Labour MPs and trade unions, concerned about possible job losses. But the more fanatical sort of 'we're losing our independence!' stuff seems to have started largely with Enoch Powell, who was propagandizing about it at least from 1969 - four years before we even joined, and in 1974 left the Tory Party over the issue, joining the Ulster Unionists.

Another seed was, I think, the conditions that the IMF imposed on us when we asked for a loan in 1975. I think some people to this day attribute to EU membership things that really came from the IMF loan.

And then, of course,decades of strident anti-EU propaganda from our more right-wing tabloids.

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Farage is due to make an announcement today Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #1
UKIP is in more chaos than any other UK party, which is really saying something muriel_volestrangler Nov 2019 #2
UKIP are now a tiny party... LeftishBrit Nov 2019 #3
On the other hand, the Brexit Party is all too influential and scary LeftishBrit Nov 2019 #4
How the Tory / Brexit party splits will be hugely important T_i_B Nov 2019 #5
It's going to get quite twisty. Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #7
How does the general UK public feel about Brexit? Is it split fairly evenly for staying or leaving? brush Nov 2019 #6
Still fairly evenly split muriel_volestrangler Nov 2019 #8
What are the chances of another vote to stay or leave since it appears Putin meddled and... brush Nov 2019 #9
We have no evidence that Putin meddled in any meaningful way in the Brexit referendum. Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #12
Seems like it will go on for more years more as a solution seems no closer. brush Nov 2019 #14
You can dismiss what I've written about Putin's role if you wish. Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #16
That's interesting about US involvment. Is Steve Bannon suspeced in that? brush Nov 2019 #18
Bannon's a bit player and Johnny-Come-Lately, more a legend in his own mind than a real threat. Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #20
People who are strongly for leaving the EU are not going to change their views T_i_B Nov 2019 #10
Seems the UK and the US are equally divided societies, both divisions aided and abeted by Putin. brush Nov 2019 #11
It's mainly US posters on this United Kingdom Group who keep mentioning Putin. Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #13
Here the Putin factor seems to have shifted a very close vote to trump, by just 77k votes. brush Nov 2019 #15
We have plenty of assholes involved in UK politics Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #17
Forgive me for attributing too much influence to Putin. Trying to learn the reasons for Brexit... brush Nov 2019 #19
Putin certainly likes to meddle, and certainly dislikes the EU for diluting his power, BUT.. LeftishBrit Nov 2019 #22
Thanks. That's good info to know for those of us from afar trying to understand... brush Nov 2019 #23
Nigel Farage will not stand as a general election candidate T_i_B Nov 2019 #21
Latest Discussions»Region Forums»United Kingdom»UK Parties: The Brexit Pa...»Reply #22