Since I grew up in the 60s, I think the whole idea

[WingDinger]

14. There was a period, collegewise, where all ills, genderwise, were the fault of men.

Where simple courtesy could be mistaken as rude condescencion. Those days are gone. Gender is a confusing mishmash of instinct, indoctrination and expectation.

ROLES, have underwent, and still undergo modifications. Some of our directions have proven ill concieved. We learn slowly. We empathize reluctantly. thinking one must lose, so the other can gain.

Men, as well as women, are responsible for harmony. Anything else is going to come up short.

The fact that women are now more educated, live longer, and maintain work reputations, will see womens role expanded. It will also see mens role as more empathetic. We see this in many ways. Metrosexual, gender neutral, egalitarian etc.

As for men trying to define a womens movement, women right now, on this board, are hashing out, how to refer to their movement, it's goals and terms. These are not timeless truths. They are dynamic. And must change, to help persons fit into society.

We, as men cannot help them determine their truths. Yes, there were those that tried to instill chaos, and still do. Just plain vanilla feminism, has gotten a bad rap. Same as liberal, and other concepts.

WE have moved to reclaim the power of the term liberal, and at some point, I think women will reclaim the dignity of the generic term, feminist.

I wholeheartedly support their path of discovery. And applaud those men who work from our end, to awaken mens humanity.

Roles will remain important, and changing roles will always scare those in flux, outside of their control. The best we can do, is to befriend uncritically, women, as they deal with the societal expectations.

We are all in this together.