Feminists

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

62. The reasoning is different and goes to the heart of what constitutes Empowerment and Bias

Sun Jan 8, 2012, 10:24 PM

Jan 2012

I don't see pageants as problematic from a gender standpoint, just that they emphasize superficial things that don't need further emphasis. So, sure, I would steer my child away from that.

Ultimately, the pageant argument leads to concepts that are similar to the sex positivity argument. Wikipedia has a great article on that culled from various third wave and second wave authors --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

I cannot get to where second wavers are on this. It seems so anachronistic, so Victorian. Not that I agree 100% with all third wavers on this. When a small minority of third wavers started to talk about repealing statutory rape laws (talked about in the wiki article) they were going to a place I definitely could not follow.

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2nd and 3rd wave feminism [View all] seabeyond Dec 2011 OP

Yep, libodem Dec 2011 #1

i've always been a third wave feminist La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #2

i would have to agree. seabeyond Dec 2011 #3

i think the problem is that when people say "the whole" they very rarely mean it La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #4

when i say women as a whole, i am talking all women.... and girls. seabeyond Dec 2011 #5

i edited my response (not sure you read the whole thing) La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #6

thru out history and the human race, people have been able to look beyond self seabeyond Dec 2011 #7

its not about altruism. its about not-knowing and being blind to that La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #8

i don't agree with you. i think history would agree and disagree seabeyond Dec 2011 #9

A possibly illustrating anecdote iris27 Dec 2011 #11

i understand. where i disagree is an inability to understand. to get beyond. seabeyond Dec 2011 #12

I'm between you & seabeyond. CrispyQ Dec 2011 #34

thanks for this post. i agree with lack of empathy. or kindness. or nice. seabeyond Dec 2011 #35

A lot of people would be more compassionate if they could see things from a different perspective. CrispyQ Dec 2011 #36

I've never really identified with either 'wave'. I feel like the iris27 Dec 2011 #10

this is more my experience. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #13

what would you have us do in the case of michelle duggar? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #14

I don't think it's our place to interfere, redqueen Dec 2011 #15

i agree with you, and that's why i can see why a feminist may say that while La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #16

I admit I don't understand the differences very well. redqueen Dec 2011 #18

how i see it and how i see the difference is... seabeyond Dec 2011 #19

I don't think we should pretend that they are making feminist choices - that any choice made by iris27 Dec 2011 #20

ok. i see that. in your initial post it didnt read as though it was being celebrated as a choice La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #21

Yeah, looking back, "perfectly fine" was not the best descriptor for the iris27 Dec 2011 #22

i would disagree that this is because she is a third waver La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #23

I don't know, she's not the only such person I've encountered, just the most out-there. It'd be iris27 Dec 2011 #24

I think that woman is confused. I don't think most 3rd wavers would agree with her stevenleser Dec 2011 #26

Third Waver LadyHawkAZ Dec 2011 #17

Feminism was my first introduction to politics. I am more drawn to 3rd wave thinking stevenleser Dec 2011 #25

i would appreciate hearing how you see 3rd waves. and on edit seabeyond Dec 2011 #27

I'm not sure I follow. stevenleser Dec 2011 #28

i asked how you see 3rd wave, because i am interested in different perspectives seabeyond Dec 2011 #29

A couple of things stevenleser Dec 2011 #30

thanks. i appreciate the discussion. from your original post seabeyond Dec 2011 #31

Sorry about the delay. I talk about third wave vs second wave here stevenleser Jan 2012 #49

that was a very frustrating thread. supposedly with people that are open to discussion seabeyond Jan 2012 #54

I was very disappointed that fellow DUers rated her according to her looks stevenleser Jan 2012 #56

but you do not want it for your daughter cause you know the inherent problems and issues with that. seabeyond Jan 2012 #59

The reasoning is different and goes to the heart of what constitutes Empowerment and Bias stevenleser Jan 2012 #62

in the thread was the issue of men rating a woman. that as my issue. until men started addressing seabeyond Jan 2012 #64

so really, the sex positive female is merely the pro porn woman? no wonder the men are into the 3rd seabeyond Jan 2012 #65

Why else would Gail Dines define third-wave "feminism" as being "all about capitulation." laconicsax Jan 2012 #66

that is what it feels like. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #67

So, in your words, if a woman likes sex she is "all about capitulation"? stevenleser Jan 2012 #69

Umm...no. laconicsax Jan 2012 #70

No need, I read the entire thread. I knew exactly what I was saying and why. stevenleser Jan 2012 #72

Well, you clearly weren't responding to what I wrote, so it makes me wonder. laconicsax Jan 2012 #74

that is silly at best and dishonest at worst. so do you wonder seabeyond Jan 2012 #71

It's not dishonest. That poster said what they said. stevenleser Jan 2012 #73

i dont know what wave i am in, but going by the names i am called, guessing 2nd. and you would be seabeyond Jan 2012 #75

Wow. That is what you got from that link? stevenleser Jan 2012 #68

here's me in my bombazine dress iverglas Jan 2012 #87

how to use sexuality to get what you want at work. seabeyond Jan 2012 #63

No. I dont think third wavers would be in favor of that at all. stevenleser Jan 2012 #76

i dont know the other two, but i have liked everything i have heard from naomi wolf seabeyond Jan 2012 #77

I read that article when it came out. I'm a big fan of hers and have met and talked to her stevenleser Jan 2012 #78

you are premising womens argument to fit your perception of them. i have heard it many times in seabeyond Jan 2012 #79

Civil/Gender rights issues are moral issues too. Perhaps I didnt make that clear stevenleser Jan 2012 #80

we are talking rights not sex. i have always and consistently supported civil and gender rights seabeyond Jan 2012 #81

You tried to suggest that I felt that 2nd wavers were addressing porn as a moral issue stevenleser Jan 2012 #82

all she is basically saying is the younger generation. seabeyond Jan 2012 #83

Me too. Here is the bottom line and what I think is the way for second and third wavers to work stevenleser Jan 2012 #90

As long as women are treated as things... redqueen Jan 2012 #93

Is trying to force that philosophical point on people who dont agree worth alienating people who stevenleser Jan 2012 #94

the options provied seems to be stfu. and i think women have had enough of being told to stfu. seabeyond Jan 2012 #95

But a large group of women disagree with that. Are you telling the women who disagree to STFU? stevenleser Jan 2012 #96

pfff, they are not being told they are frigid. lol. you said seabeyond Jan 2012 #98

"if you want support for... then shut up about..." redqueen Jan 2012 #100

It's not a philosophical point. redqueen Jan 2012 #99

how do you iverglas Jan 2012 #101

100% committed to the equal treatment of GLBT people, regardless of anything said to seabeyond Jan 2012 #102

pft, Naomi Wolf iverglas Jan 2012 #88

try not changing the subject iverglas Jan 2012 #84

When you address the inconsistencies in your approach, I'll enter into a lengthy dialogue stevenleser Jan 2012 #85

why are you here? iverglas Jan 2012 #86

Why to sell Amway products, of course. stevenleser Jan 2012 #89

I know, I look young (lol) I'm a rather proud dad so, here she is stevenleser Jan 2012 #50

Wow, she's great, Steve Remember Me Jan 2012 #52

Thank you! I raised her to be able to kick butt academically, intellectually and physically. stevenleser Jan 2012 #53

wow steven, that is all kinds of awesome. it is wonderful seeing a girl do.... seabeyond Jan 2012 #55

She is off to College next year. That video helped land her the soccer scholarship she received stevenleser Jan 2012 #58

ahhhhh, lol. hey, that was clever of you. my son is a junior. seabeyond Jan 2012 #61

Whew! I hope that wasn't all in one conversation! Remember Me Dec 2011 #43

Thank you. See my #50 above. :-) stevenleser Jan 2012 #51

This was such a good article libodem Dec 2011 #32

i had to speak out a couple weeks ago. seabeyond Dec 2011 #33

Just a way to categorize starspunch78 Dec 2011 #37

welcome to du. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #38

Thanks! starspunch78 Dec 2011 #42

Welcome to DU and thanks for kicking this thread! PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #39

Hello! starspunch78 Dec 2011 #41

No, actually, it wasn't Remember Me Dec 2011 #44

thank you for this post. as i say. i dont feel like i fit or even understand either. seabeyond Dec 2011 #45

Another K&R PhoenixAbove Dec 2011 #40

Speaking as a 2nd Waver, I think 3rd Wave, as described Remember Me Dec 2011 #46

"The personal is the political" means? seabeyond Dec 2011 #47

Okay, I will. Remember Me Jan 2012 #48

y'know, I guess I would just ask the "third wavers": iverglas Jan 2012 #57

So how's that working out for you then? seabeyond Jan 2012 #60

I'm Gen X, I think, which is why I can relate to one thing with that third wave... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #91

i dont get you... seabeyond Jan 2012 #92

I think "ironic" might be the key here ;) iverglas Jan 2012 #97

kicking. looking thru google for a particular third waver, i cant remember her name. seabeyond Dec 2013 #103

No problem kicking it here, sea. Gormy Cuss Dec 2013 #104

thank you woman... seabeyond Dec 2013 #105