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Surf Fishing Guru

(115 posts)
32. You are starting from an invalid foundation
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 09:50 PM
Feb 2016

The right to arms isn't granted, given, created or otherwise established by the 2nd, the right to possess and use arms for legal purposes is a retained right -- no aspect of the right was ever conferred to the federal government that would allow the feds to dictate to the citizen what uses are allowed or qualify the protection of the right (e.g., upon one's attachment to organized militia).

You are arguing a position that has been denounced and rejected by SCOTUS for going on 140 years, not 8 years.

Back in 1876 SCOTUS recognized the right to bear arms for a lawful purposes -- that of armed self-defense in public by two former slaves, then citizens from the KKK / Night Riders, in 1873 Louisiana, a state who had their militia formally disbanded by Congress.

SCOTUS said then that such an exercise of the right to arms was, "not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence." SCOTUS re-affirmed that in 1886 and again in 2008;

"it has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment , like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right. The very text of the Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it “shall not be infringed.” As we said in United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553 (1876) , “this is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. . . . ."

That means that 'promulgating the right on a state's need for a militia' is illegitimate.

The right itself, its recognition and protection can not be said to be dependent upon words in the Constitution (e.g., the 2nd's "well regulated&quot nor upon something that is itself, completely dependent upon the Constitution for its existence . . . such as the organized militia and a citizen's enrollment in it.

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Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I think one of those... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #1
Some would have to complete their sentences first. N/T beevul Feb 2016 #21
There will always be those who are... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #22
Thus no nominee who is not an "individual right" advocate will have a chance at approval. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #2
That will be the Republican position, no doubt. stone space Feb 2016 #3
Why would the GOP come here? GGJohn Feb 2016 #4
Oh, come on! We've even had Zimmerman supporters come here. stone space Feb 2016 #5
Zimmerman supporters? GGJohn Feb 2016 #6
Are personal insults really necessary here? stone space Feb 2016 #9
A fact is not a personal insult. GGJohn Feb 2016 #10
More personal insults??? Seriously??? Why??? stone space Feb 2016 #11
Why do you always make yourself out to be the victim? eom. GGJohn Feb 2016 #12
Why did you introduce personal insults into this thread? stone space Feb 2016 #14
See, there you go again, GGJohn Feb 2016 #15
Now you are just trolling. stone space Feb 2016 #16
... GGJohn Feb 2016 #17
No personal insults... Puha Ekapi Feb 2016 #18
same here, I see facts Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #20
It's a shtick, seen early & often. Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #31
I am sure you will be able to supply links Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #8
so are you calling du members Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #7
That was precisely my point. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #13
Was his dissent in Maryland v King "bullshit" as well? Marengo Feb 2016 #19
That will be the position of any individual who values their rights. beevul Feb 2016 #24
Not sure how his death calls anything TeddyR Feb 2016 #23
Really? Where, exactly, does the Second Amendment mention or even allude to a flamin lib Feb 2016 #25
where does it say there isn't? gejohnston Feb 2016 #26
Are you against self defense? beevul Feb 2016 #27
ReallY???? Surf Fishing Guru Feb 2016 #28
I will ask again, flamin lib Feb 2016 #30
You are starting from an invalid foundation Surf Fishing Guru Feb 2016 #32
That is precisely what I said. Scalia found something in the Second Amendment that isn't there. flamin lib Feb 2016 #33
militia, clear & unequivocal in 1939 miller jimmy the one Feb 2016 #35
Hey jimmmy! I don't think there is doubt about the 2nd securing an individual right... jmg257 Feb 2016 #36
little problem with militia centric pov jimmy the one Feb 2016 #37
Ha - that is why I included points 2-4 - NO doubt what he was saying! nt jmg257 Feb 2016 #38
Do you deny a right to self-defense? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #34
Can't tell the difference between babies and bathwater, huh? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #29
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