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jimmy the one

(2,720 posts)
26. a blast from the past
Mon Mar 14, 2022, 08:07 AM
Mar 2022

Seems I have encountered surf guru before, 2015. Have a nice trip down memory lane guru.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=180850

Benjamin Oliver, from Right of an American Citizen, 1832 (+emph): "The {2ndA} declares ‘the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.’ The reason is, ‘because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state.’
. . . The provision of the Constitution declaring the right to keep and bear arms was probably intended to apply to the right to bear arms for such {militia related} purposes only, and not to prevent Congress or legislatures from enacting laws to prevent citizens from going armed. A different construction however has been given to it.” (1832)


Justice Joseph Story, 1833: .. among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burthens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see.
There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our national bill of rights.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIIs10.html

Which clause was Story writing of in the last sentence? the militia clause of course.
If story believed there was an individual right to keep & bear arms disconnected from militia, his above sentence would be contradictory to that belief - 'the people' then could be 'duly armed' by simply owning guns with no militia obligation. But that is what story is worried about, that 'the people' simply owning guns outside militia would NOT be duly armed without some organization/militia.
Scalia in heller twisted these Joseph Story quotes 1833 into support for the individual rkba!

Story cont'd: The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers.
.. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.


Story, in the same paragraph, praised the militia and 'the people' for essentially the same thing, defense against - 'the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers'... more evidence in context he synonymously equated militia & 'the people'. The 'people' individually armed yet unorganized, would be no match for the 'arbitrary power of rulers' with tyranny in mind.

Wm Rawle, 1825: In the second article, it is declared, that a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free state; a proposition from which few will dissent.
The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
http://www.constitution.org/wr/rawle_10.htm

A corollary is of course, derived from a higher rule or law.
Scalia in heller twisted wm rawle into being supportive of the individual rkba.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

NEVER Going To Stop Guns In America SoCalDavidS Jan 2022 #1
Strange..............43 posts and I can see only 15 of them. oneshooter Mar 2022 #43
Huh? SoCalDavidS Mar 2022 #44
17 posts have been dropped. oneshooter Oct 2022 #45
Have added some folks to ignore? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2022 #46
I do not put people on ignore. oneshooter Oct 2022 #47
If you have an add blocker... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2022 #48
Had Democrats not pushed for gun control so strongly over the last few decades, Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #2
Am I the only one melm00se Jan 2022 #3
I see them all. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2022 #4
Are they too small, or are you getting broken links? n/t krispos42 Jan 2022 #5
It might be because the picture links.. krispos42 Jan 2022 #6
broken links melm00se Jan 2022 #7
Deafening silence. krispos42 Jan 2022 #8
The antigun activists on this site haven't the faintest interest in debating facts. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #9
Yeah, well. I had a beaut of a response for you, and I chickened out. Paladin Jan 2022 #10
Intriguing reply indeed krispos42 Jan 2022 #11
shall issue ccw was not wanted in the first place jimmy the one Feb 2022 #12
Some of this is specious melm00se Mar 2022 #13
re: "Can something be made more illegal?" discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2022 #14
Like the log I heard some businesses make you do to log your work time? yagotme Mar 2022 #15
my unanimous decision trumps yours jimmy the one Mar 2022 #16
re: Miller... looking to move in standup comedy? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2022 #18
re: juvenile ad hominem jimmy the one Mar 2022 #19
Okay discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2022 #20
No one objected, because Miller was deceased, yagotme Mar 2022 #21
Re: "my unanimous decision trumps yours" Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #22
1939 Miller decision, cont'd #1 jimmy the one Mar 2022 #23
RE: 1939 Miller decision, cont'd #1 Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #28
weasel words jimmy the one Mar 2022 #29
That sounds like confession by projection from you. Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #32
prior state's right to bear arms decrees circa 1776 jimmy the one Mar 2022 #24
RE: State RKBA provisions Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #30
bluntly speaking jimmy the one Mar 2022 #25
Bluntly true . . . Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #31
provide links or excerpts for 'dissents' jimmy the one Mar 2022 #33
You couldn't have read the dissents . . . Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #34
You can read but you cannot comprehend much jimmy the one Mar 2022 #35
That's some inventive reading . . . Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #36
SUDDENLY, an excoriation jimmy the one Mar 2022 #37
Take a breath, calm down . . . Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #38
Post removed Post removed Mar 2022 #40
Post removed Post removed Mar 2022 #41
Post removed Post removed Mar 2022 #42
Sorry, not sorry, sanctimonious is what I do . . . Surf Fishing Guru Mar 2022 #39
a blast from the past jimmy the one Mar 2022 #26
scalia erred in heller -1 jimmy the one Mar 2022 #27
mel's smoke and mirrors jimmy the one Mar 2022 #17
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»35 years of gun sales, sh...»Reply #26