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Igel

(36,566 posts)
4. History makes for a bad present.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:32 PM
Nov 2019

Consider the Democratic Party.

I look back at its history, and see that it was not the African-American friendly party we think of it now, but was a strong supporter of Jim Crow and minority-voter disenfranchisement laws.

As for the RC, I pay attention to times. It would be one thing to air all the DP's dirty laundry today, without bothering to say when one of its prominent senators founded his local KKK chapter, or name Democrats who actively worked to disenfranchise and violate the rights of the descendants of slaves. You read the child abuse chronicles, and the dates are left out. One thing that means is you don't see the shortfall in recent cases--instead, you hear about new cases where some poor kid was abused when he was 12 and is now bringing charges or would like to, but the priest is 70 years old or dead and the victim is in his 50s. So even when people are judging it by its "present," it's a decades old "present". And even then, it's judged by accusations, not by anything close to "due process." (We have a mixed recent history with due process. When it's somebody we don't like, the claim is the evidence and trial, and all that's needed is the verdict. If we like the person, sometimes we insist on due process, things like checking out the claim and seeing if there's any evidence--and if there's not, saying, "Sorry, no evidence, no proof, no conviction, no guilty verdict." No, the universe isn't fair--but if we always side with the self-professed victim, then life's not fair to the innocent wrongly accused.)

Anyway, that time lag between when the victim was victimized and when we hear the allegation often means the events happened about the same time as the reformed KKK chapter founder was really important in Congress. So we have to decide if we want to pretend that the past is really the present or just go by recent actions?

Organizations change, even as they remain true to some core values even as societies around them change and resent the continuity, unless they properly repent and do penance; they also sometimes do change their core values, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse; but even worse, sometimes not every member is the best representative of that organization.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Thank you for admitting to your own limitations in this matter. eom guillaumeb Nov 2019 #1
I don't see it has been demonstrated edhopper Nov 2019 #2
I was simply noting MM's limitations. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #3
And History. And Current court cases around the world. AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #37
History makes for a bad present. Igel Nov 2019 #4
Remarkable there are still who choose to defend the criminal organization. trotsky Nov 2019 #5
That is not what the poster said, but you are consistent in your narrative. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #6
That is exactly what the poster said. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #7
Explain how I am wrong then, instead of falsely bashing me. trotsky Nov 2019 #8
Look at your own title. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #9
My title: "Remarkable there are still who choose to defend the criminal organization." trotsky Nov 2019 #12
Again, you ignore what the poster wrote. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #14
So you are retracting your false claim about what I said? trotsky Nov 2019 #16
My words stand. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #18
Your false words, yes. trotsky Nov 2019 #19
Truly? guillaumeb Nov 2019 #20
Really and truly. trotsky Nov 2019 #21
A weak try. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #22
Which words? trotsky Nov 2019 #23
FYI, I eagerly await your retraction and apology. trotsky Nov 2019 #24
Read the bolded eportions of #20. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #25
I did. I wrote them, then I read them, then I read them again. trotsky Nov 2019 #29
#14 guillaumeb Nov 2019 #33
#715 trotsky Dec 2019 #34
Pretty much guaranteed you'll simply get the same nonsense repeated ad nauseum Major Nikon Nov 2019 #27
You'll note, he's dropped his defense of his initial claim, because he knows it's bullshit. trotsky Nov 2019 #30
You'd think he'd know the difference Major Nikon Nov 2019 #32
He won't Major Nikon Nov 2019 #11
He outright lied about what I said. trotsky Nov 2019 #13
Unfortunately for you, your own words refute your claim here. guillaumeb Nov 2019 #15
My own words prove your claim utterly false. trotsky Nov 2019 #17
The example you give is one frequently used by the far right Major Nikon Nov 2019 #10
The Roman Catholic church has impeded the spirit of Christianity at almost every stage. Karadeniz Nov 2019 #26
Who gets to decide the "spirit of Christianity"? Major Nikon Nov 2019 #28
I did not choose to list the things the RCC has done in its history MineralMan Nov 2019 #31
Yes, but on the plus side of the ledger.. Permanut Dec 2019 #35
Absolutely. A handsome European man with blue eyes and long straight hair. MineralMan Dec 2019 #36
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