General Discussion

PeaceWave

(1,229 posts) Thu Dec 26, 2024, 02:39 PM Dec 26

If a person cannot read or write cursive, are they "functionally illiterate?" [View all]

Last edited Sat Dec 28, 2024, 12:52 AM - Edit history (2)

Over Christmas, I was talking to a friend who works at a major accounting firm. We got to talking about Gen Z workers, at which point my friend recounted a story about a young hire straight out of college who couldn't read or write cursive. Somehow, this wasn't picked up during the recruiting process. Once hired, this young worker couldn't make heads or tails out of some notes, handwritten in cursive, from one of the partners. When the partner found out, he directed HR to terminate employment of the kid for being "functionally illiterate." On the one hand, belonging to a generation where everyone in the U.S. learned to read and write cursive, I can see where the partner was coming from. On the other hand, I thought the partner's response was a bit harsh. If he viewed the young worker as essentially having a learning deficit, perhaps the firm could have made some kind of accommodation for him. I don't know. I'm torn on this one. My long term concern would be that young people wouldn't even be able to sign their own name on legal documents and would resort to instead writing a big "X." That doesn't strike me as progress.

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If a person cannot read or write cursive, are they "functionally illiterate?" [View all] PeaceWave Dec 26 OP

No, and sigh: 'not this shit again'. Voltaire2 Dec 26 #1

𝒮𝒶𝓎𝓈 𝓌𝒽𝑜? mahatmakanejeeves Dec 26 #5

not actually cursive, 'cursive like'. Voltaire2 Dec 26 #7

If I wrote it in my own handwriting, no one could read it. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 26 #14

I can't read mine. multigraincracker Dec 26 #26

" If I wrote it in my own handwriting" - ok, Dr. Mahatmakanejeeves FSogol Dec 26 #47

I am getting Rebl2 Dec 26 #63

Not their fault Conjuay Dec 28 #158

Agree with Voltaire 2 indigovalley Dec 26 #16

Or people could learn the skill SheltieLover Dec 26 #24

but why? It isn't required for any practical skills. Voltaire2 Dec 26 #38

Pls see post 15 & 21 below SheltieLover Dec 26 #41

Many other things make that connection and are much more practical JCMach1 Dec 26 #79

There is no excuse for relinquishing any common form of communication SheltieLover Dec 26 #82

Do you do calligraphy? Long math? Use a slide rule? JCMach1 Dec 27 #83

Those are obviously not common forms of communication SheltieLover Dec 27 #84

Can you read Middle English? What about Old English? JCMach1 Dec 27 #86

Pls see posts #15 & 21 SheltieLover Dec 27 #87

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 27 #90

Language literacy and grammar evolve JCMach1 Dec 27 #96

That's just it: it is no longer a "common form of communication" NickB79 Dec 27 #97

Clearly it is or these employees wouldn't be fired. jimfields33 Dec 27 #120

Exactly Betty Boom Dec 27 #124

Why? Ms. Toad Dec 26 #43

very good point. raccoon Dec 27 #91

It is required in Germany. Conjuay Dec 28 #160

Yes, to be licensed to drive a manual, but you can take the test in an automatic car. You will have an 'auto only' code Celerity Dec 28 #163

+9999 krawhitham Dec 26 #18

My daugher is 16 DeepWinter Dec 26 #27

I always saw it as a creative opportunity TexasBushwhacker Dec 27 #119

When I learned cursive it was the opposite of a creative opportunity. Mariana Dec 27 #132

As well as pencils to that same degree. Torchlight Dec 26 #61

So much shit is being thrown to the wayside by the new generation. William769 Dec 27 #95

Their schools and their teachers failed them by not teaching cursive in grade school FakeNoose Dec 27 #112

Because they were too busy paying for year round DenaliDemocrat Dec 29 #178

Well said. Captain Stern Dec 27 #113

You called it. ThreeNoSeep Dec 27 #114

It's clearly not Betty Boom Dec 27 #122

Nope. Most historical documents are in cursive DenaliDemocrat Dec 29 #176

That's a tough one. I think it will, if it hasn't already, become a 'specialized' skill. Joinfortmill Dec 26 #2

handwriting need not be 'cursive'. Voltaire2 Dec 26 #8

I believe in this conversation we are discussing cursive. Joinfortmill Dec 26 #19

That's hand printing, not hand writing. Conjuay Dec 28 #161

Handwriting is any writing done by hand, whether it's lettered or cursive. Mariana Dec 28 #172

Yes! "Handwriting" is also what MY schools called it! raging moderate Dec 29 #179

Slight correction Betty Boom Dec 27 #121

This needs to be underscored. Displayed prominently on the web page is: JHB Dec 28 #142

Not all cursive is the same. padfun Dec 26 #3

Put cursive back in schools. Problem solved. jimfields33 Dec 26 #4

90 days? Thats funny.. getagrip_already Dec 26 #34

Maybe you're right. jimfields33 Dec 26 #35

Better to solve the problem by teaching an actual useful skill Orrex Dec 27 #117

I could see not writing it but seriously, how hard is it to decipher your own language? It's not cuneiform ffs Blues Heron Dec 26 #6

Depends on the chicken scratch you are trying to decipher krawhitham Dec 26 #20

Yup. Ms. Toad Dec 26 #77

Partly claudette Dec 26 #9

I have been reading/writing cursive for most of my life The Madcap Dec 26 #10

No being able to read cursive writing isn't an handicap LogDog75 Dec 26 #11

That makes too much sense. Haggard Celine Dec 27 #129

In 2024, no. RockRaven Dec 26 #12

But shorthand was never universal among literate people SheltieLover Dec 26 #23

I haven't needed that function for a looooong time. Iggo Dec 26 #13

Errors can be deadly... (or at least lead to massive liability--even for an accounting firm but more so elsewhere) hlthe2b Dec 26 #15

Concur with this Sympthsical Dec 26 #22

The failure to understand by so many on this thread, to use their imagination as to where hlthe2b Dec 26 #29

I'm with you SheltieLover Dec 26 #44

Alternatively is there a reason that those places that still use cursive actually use it or is it a relic? EdmondDantes_ Dec 26 #50

I wrote here and in great detail upstream why this is not the case now. Given you refuse to read hlthe2b Dec 26 #51

Speaking for myself, it's not that we don't understand, we just don't agree. Emrys Dec 26 #62

Why should an entire office abandon using cursive just because a new employee isn't able to read it? n/t MichMan Dec 26 #71

Because it could save lives? That seems a good enough reason to me. Emrys Dec 26 #75

If the computer system Karma13612 Dec 28 #137

Maybe there's a good reason why organizations distributing hard-copy forms to be filled out Emrys Dec 28 #144

Thank you! Agree 100%- eom Karma13612 Dec 27 #131

Absolutely! SheltieLover Dec 26 #45

The problem was that some idiot thought that writing a note in cursive... hunter Dec 27 #88

way to TOTALLY miss the point. hlthe2b Dec 27 #92

Thank you!!!! Betty Boom Dec 27 #125

The last time I was in the E.R. the doctor was accompanied by a medical scribe... hunter Dec 28 #150

AGAIN! You TOTALLY MISS THE POINT. Of course hospitals are computerized at every turn. But that hlthe2b Dec 28 #151

To be clear, I actually *can* read and write cursive. hunter Dec 28 #162

What kind of a hospital uses cursive for warning labels? ThreeNoSeep Dec 27 #105

I get that you have no clue that hospitals have records that include scanned notes, as does their pharmacy hlthe2b Dec 27 #106

When the debate opponent puts words in your mouth or makes assumptions about your past ThreeNoSeep Dec 27 #110

Again, you show you have no clue about what several of us are speaking to in medicine hlthe2b Dec 27 #111

Can I just say... Betty Boom Dec 27 #128

What you "think" doesn't make it true... appmanga Dec 27 #108

It is not merely what I think. It is fact and 24 states thus far are putting cursive back in educational hlthe2b Dec 27 #109

I am relieved to Karma13612 Dec 28 #141

Glad to hear it is being included again! SheltieLover Dec 28 #152

Thank you for this Betty Boom Dec 27 #126

Bravo!!!!! Karma13612 Dec 27 #133

Another great point you make! SheltieLover Dec 28 #153

Lockout/tagout was standard procedure decades ago where I worked Mariana Dec 28 #135

Certainly not canetoad Dec 26 #17

Depends on the job, but geneally I'd say yes. SheltieLover Dec 26 #21

One more instance of the disdain people have for preceding generations. Everone should be taught to READ cursive. LAS14 Dec 26 #25

No... Mike Nelson Dec 26 #28

LOL Prairie Gates Dec 26 #30

My Take ProfessorGAC Dec 26 #31

As evidenced by your students, the bulk of it ought to be decipherable... consider_this Dec 26 #59

Had A Thought ProfessorGAC Dec 26 #65

I quite like your idea, especially... consider_this Dec 26 #80

no. BlueWaveNeverEnd Dec 26 #32

Late boomer here. I haven't written in true cursive since college exams the 1980s. Eugene Dec 26 #33

Me neither. Mike 03 Dec 26 #37

The test shouldn't be "can I read this person's handwriting" Mike 03 Dec 26 #36

I suppose I could have written software in cursive. Voltaire2 Dec 26 #42

If reading cursive was a job requirement, it.should have been stated as such clearly and up-front 0rganism Dec 26 #39

There are dozens of job duties for nearly every job that aren't specifically mentioned in job requirements MichMan Dec 26 #52

So you're comparing not reading cursive to showing up drunk and swearing at customers? 0rganism Dec 26 #66

I'm saying people can & are held accountable for a myriad of things that aren't specifically mentioned in an interview MichMan Dec 26 #70

Well, there's cursive and there's curse-ive 0rganism Dec 26 #73

Reading and writing cursive is a skill, not drinking on the job and not stealing aren't skills. Ms. Toad Dec 26 #78

Agreed it doesn't make them "illiterate"; but snot Dec 26 #40

I had to learn cursive.... Xolodno Dec 26 #46

No. Of course not. NT Happy Hoosier Dec 26 #48

So what happens to legal documents if someone doesn't have a "signature"? Presume allegorical oracle Dec 26 #49

It doesn't have to be cursive. It can just be terrible handwriting. sakabatou Dec 26 #53

No. Xoan Dec 26 #54

How do you sign you name if you don't know cursive? bif Dec 26 #55

Like many of these anecdotes about the world of work and "the younger generation", Emrys Dec 26 #56

Just Google the scribbles The Madcap Dec 26 #57

Of course they're not functionally illiterate, but Susan Calvin Dec 26 #58

Don't think Rebl2 Dec 26 #60

If you can't write cursive how do sign a check, like in the westerns where they made their mark? doc03 Dec 26 #64

I rarely sign checks nowadays, but when I do, my signature's degraded into a stylized squiggle. Emrys Dec 26 #68

I remember getting my first letter that was printed out from a computer Mossfern Dec 26 #67

cursive is also good brain exercise. WarGamer Dec 26 #69

I can write cursive with both hands -- and no_hypocrisy Dec 26 #72

While I ForgedCrank Dec 26 #74

No. Would that exclude Braille? underpants Dec 26 #76

Although I think everyone should know it, I also feel that's it's kinda dumb to use it in 2024 Polybius Dec 26 #81

No, they aren't. No one is taught cursive in schools anymore. iemanja Dec 27 #85

Another generation-division post. It means the employee isn't ambitious enough to take a little time to learn, doesn't betsuni Dec 27 #89

If it's clearly written there shouldn't be any problem. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 27 #93

Wow, we were taught cursive starting in the first grade. Emile Dec 27 #94

Replace "cursive" with "Latin" and see how silly this discussion sounds NickB79 Dec 27 #98

I learning Latin is a good deal more difficult thucythucy Dec 27 #104

Well, most people over a certain age write in cursive - you'd have as much luck asking my mother to write letters in Midwestern Democrat Dec 28 #148

I'd make them read the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence Historic NY Dec 27 #99

no, unless the hire didn't think to plug it into an AI, in which case yes cadoman Dec 27 #100

If a person cannot read or write classic Latin, are they functionally illiterate? DBoon Dec 27 #101

I look at this from the other direction Unwind Your Mind Dec 27 #102

Writing in cursive is one of the few things the young people around me are highly impressed by. appmanga Dec 27 #103

Teaching kids cursive is actually quite easy and I did it as "bell work" every morning. La Coliniere Dec 27 #107

Teaching adults cursive is even easier. Mariana Dec 28 #140

No. Just because something is illegible to you does not mean you're illiterate. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 27 #115

Lol @ obsolete hobby skills dubiously deemed essential Orrex Dec 27 #116

All offense intended, but that partner sounds like an asshole Rob H. Dec 27 #118

I wouldn't call it illiterate. In this case, I would say, they lack a skill that is required for this particular job. Betty Boom Dec 27 #123

I'm much more interested in people who know how to use a keyboard than read/produce scribble. Gore1FL Dec 27 #127

Consequence comes home to roost... dobleremolque Dec 27 #130

Did it occur to you to give the kid a handwriting book Mariana Dec 28 #138

. dobleremolque Dec 28 #145

I had a mild stroke in 2016. Jeebo Dec 27 #134

No, they are not "functionally illiterate" Renew Deal Dec 28 #136

Just did a quick job search. There are 75+ jobs listing the ability to read cursive. Renew Deal Dec 28 #139

Bookmarking! Drum Dec 28 #143

This has been going on for a long time, couple of decades at least. mucholderthandirt Dec 28 #146

I remember my fundie home-schooled nephew struggling publicly to read travelingthrulife Dec 28 #147

We had cursive font letters above the chalkboard in Emile Dec 28 #149

Teacher here J-9 Dec 28 #154

A signature does not have to be written in cursive. Ms. Toad Dec 28 #155

Taking time to sign something is a sign of respect to those to whom we address a document. PeaceWave Dec 28 #157

That has nothing to do with whether a something other than cursive Ms. Toad Dec 28 #165

No, but if the job requires reading cursive it could be disqualifying not to be able to nini Dec 28 #159

I addressed that issue above. Ms. Toad Dec 28 #164

My reply is in the wrong place...sorry nini Dec 28 #167

That is not the question I was addressing. Ms. Toad Dec 28 #169

If the job requires reading cursive, the employer should teach the employee. Mariana Dec 28 #173

Yup. I've had to "sign" legal NDAs on e-forms in order to work for some clients Emrys Dec 28 #166

My signature is a bump followed by a nearly straight line Kaleva Dec 28 #168

I've usuallly got a couple of loops near the beginning Ms. Toad Dec 28 #171

Young, straight-out-of-college, GenZer should have known ... JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 28 #156

They were probably forbidden to use those apps. Mariana Dec 28 #174

The apps might be forbidden if your work requires a security clearance. JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 29 #175

I can neither print or write cursive Kaleva Dec 28 #170

Cursive is just a way to write faster. Patton French Dec 29 #177

If it's a way to write faster, as you say, then why should it go extinct? That makes no sense. PeaceWave Dec 29 #182

Because people don't use pen and paper anywhere near as much as when cursive was a thing Patton French Dec 29 #183

Failure to teach cursive is furthering the United States falling behind the rest of the world. madaboutharry Dec 29 #180

Without a device cannot communicate ... LSparkle Dec 29 #181