General Discussion

ForgedCrank

(2,426 posts)

234. I'll go over it, but in smaller pieces for you.

Sun Dec 29, 2024, 03:44 PM

Sunday

For some
Reply to MarineCombatEngineer
Sat Dec 28, 2024, 11:57 AM
reason, this is quite common here. One cannot post a logic based opinion without being accused of alternate and nefarious motives.
I don't like taking "a" side in this conflict, but I know evil when I see it. Just because I recognize that doesn't mean I sit around eagerly awaiting the next bomb run that kills innocent people, I just simply understand how it got to this point because I'd most likely be doing the same thing if someone ravaged my neighborhood and slaughtered innocent people. I'd be on a scorched earth campaign against the aggressors, regardless of what or who the hid behind.

1) " this is quite common here"
"common" means that something happens here a lot. "Here" meaning DU. I thought that was easy enough to understand, but I guess not.

If you read #190, you should see that I am referencing the other posters statement "putting your words in his/hers mouth"
If you cannot understand those words, please refer to the other poster. I was able to comprehend the statement on my own.

2)

One cannot post a logic based opinion without being accused of alternate and nefarious motives

I'm not certain how to explain this to you in simpler terms, but I'll give it a shot. For example, when posting a current event that is factual, it is common here for people to make accusations of peddling right wing talking points, or even accusing the poster of being MAGA, all because said fact may run counter to the attackers desires. To add, I find that disingenuous at best. sSome folks are just unable to cope with things they don't like, even raw information.

If you need further clarification, I do not believe I can properly conduct a class on communications here in the forums. But things such as demonizing the "straw man" are not a counter argument at all. It is simply an attempt to discredit the poster rather than addressing the content of a given discussion.

Good luck to you.

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I am sick of the slaughter in Gaza [View all] malaise Dec 26 OP

The Palestinian terrorists releasing all of the hostages would likely go a long way to achieving this Jose Garcia Dec 26 #1

Obviously, Bebe doesn't care about the hostages womanofthehills Dec 26 #7

How did the need to get them back materialize? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #64

But when you look at the news and the genocide do you recall? arthritisR_US Dec 27 #72

Social and for-profit news media knows jack shit about genocide, Beastly Boy Dec 27 #77

So who/where is your source of information? arthritisR_US Dec 27 #81

It depends on what my purpose is. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #95

And, after that, I still wait a few days, sometimes the "real" information takes awhile to come out. nt yagotme Sunday #226

I've given up. Voltaire2 Dec 26 #2

I've given up too. Last year at this time I tended to have Mike 03 Dec 26 #20

What one does depends on how important the issue is Kaleva Dec 27 #83

The "American people" voted to let it go on... Wounded Bear Dec 26 #3

Would a Harris administration do more to stop it than Biden did? Martin Eden Dec 27 #104

I actually think she would have. At least I hoped so, but now it will likely get much worse under Trump. Celerity Sunday #235

Two possible reasons Kamala didn't say she would withold bombs from Israel Martin Eden Sunday #240

Both I would say. Good points. Celerity Sunday #241

Aside from electoral politics, the BIG question remains: Martin Eden Sunday #242

The opposite of what Trump will likely do. Celerity Sunday #243

They've got their hotels and casinos designed and ready to go, as soon as the bloody mess is bulldozed over. msfiddlestix Dec 27 #120

Who are "they"? Where are the designs? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #122

There's a "concept" of a design. MarineCombatEngineer Dec 27 #123

Oh... My bad. My total lack of compassion for humanity blinded me to a concept of a design. Shame on me. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #124

..... msfiddlestix Dec 27 #131

Well there's this guy: Dave Bowman Dec 27 #140

So the "they" are just one guy. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #163

It was an example, as you very well know. Dave Bowman Dec 27 #170

An example of what? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #176

Lol. Keep digging, Beast. Dave Bowman Dec 27 #179

Stop Being Silly IamHappy Dec 27 #180

Believe me, I am very serious. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #181

Wait! H2O Man Dec 27 #165

Of course, silly me. :) Dave Bowman Dec 27 #168

I blame Hamas for hiding in, around and under its women and children. elias7 Dec 26 #4

Curious, no blame from you for the murderous warmongers Netanyahu/likud/IDF commanders who keep bombing the shit... brush Dec 26 #6

A curious deflection into something that's only been mentioned a couple of dozen times in this thread alone... Beastly Boy Dec 27 #63

Which should tell you how biased, one-sided unfeeling and bereft of humanity your op is. Get a clue. brush Dec 27 #65

Tell me more about the bias. and give more examples, please. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #67

Oh, it's you, BB. I hadn't noticed before. I know ou're totally one-sided on the matter... brush Dec 27 #69

My empathy is no one's business but my own. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #73

Let's not go any further with this, pls. brush Dec 27 #75

That is my wish, and I appreciate your offer. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #79

"my empathy for Gazan civilians, in deed and not in word, is likely to exceed that of the most vocal performers here on Dave Bowman Saturday #185

Here that whooshing sound going over your head? MarineCombatEngineer Saturday #190

For some ForgedCrank Saturday #194

For others, discerning between a logic-based opinion and a strawman argument is a real struggle. Beastly Boy Sunday #218

And my ForgedCrank Sunday #223

...What was your point again? Beastly Boy Sunday #227

It is ForgedCrank Sunday #228

Since I am not getting your point, and since you replied to my post, and not post #190, Beastly Boy Sunday #233

I'll go over it, but in smaller pieces for you. ForgedCrank Sunday #234

Ok, I guess I did need to go over it in smaller pieces and in proper order. Beastly Boy Sunday #236

"Here* that whooshing sound going over your head?" Dave Bowman Sunday #222

Wow!!!! MarineCombatEngineer Sunday #224

No, but I certainly feel superior to the purveyors of performative outrage, and not just on DU. Beastly Boy Saturday #193

Never malaise Saturday #187

When America drs are seeing toddlers with gun shots in their heads womanofthehills Dec 26 #9

You are aware they came to power directly with Bibi support years ago? IbogaProject Dec 26 #12

Did you see these articles from Haaretz? people Dec 26 #13

This. So much this. ZRB Dec 26 #15

Israel imilitary just assumes that any Palestinian man is Hamas erodriguez Dec 26 #22

Israel's produced precious little evidence that snot Dec 26 #26

That didn't age well, did it?Less than 24 hours after the end of operation, the evidence. And it's just a start. Beastly Boy Sunday #220

Thank you. Could you please provide the source for your info? snot Sunday #237

Sorry, here it is: Beastly Boy Sunday #238

Fwiw, here is the Guardian's account of what appears to be the same attack: snot Sunday #239

Yes, I read the article. Beastly Boy Sunday #244

This message was self-deleted by its author spapeggy Dec 26 #27

What you write PhylliPretzel Dec 26 #30

Except confessions of Hamas leaders of doing just that. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #71

Post those videos, we would like to see your proof. arthritisR_US Dec 27 #80

If you insist. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #96

"confessions of Hamas leaders" Dave Bowman Dec 27 #87

Doesn't look like these Hamas terrorists are being tortured, does it? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #97

This is a good example of non sequitur with a dash of Israeli propaganda and two scoops of bullshit in the mix. Dave Bowman Dec 27 #137

Are you saying they DO look like they are being tortured? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #142

I wasn't talking about these guys and your reply has nothing to do with the op. Dave Bowman Dec 27 #147

Wait a minute... let me process this... was I supposed to reply to YOUR post with something that has to do with the OP Beastly Boy Dec 27 #156

"your ridiculous presumption that ALL of them were tortured?" Dave Bowman Dec 27 #166

Why a diversion all of a sudden? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #173

This doesn't work for BB any more uponit7771 Dec 26 #32

Look what you made us do" is the mentality of abusers & psychopaths. Avalon Sparks Dec 26 #42

I blame the gullible and/or complicit for uncritically spewing Israeli propaganda. AloeVera Dec 26 #56

Don't support Starbucks either, every cup of beverage purchased, a percentage goes to Israel. People akbacchus_BC Dec 27 #111

Are you telling me there are still progressive types overpaying for that muddy piss just to show off? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #125

Spot on! thank you. comradebillyboy Dec 27 #113

Congo and Darfur are much more concerning Fichefinder Dec 26 #5

No place is more concerning than the other womanofthehills Dec 26 #10

Uh huh. How curious far worse slaughters NEVER get mentioned Arazi Dec 26 #11

Excellent observation. There are any number of comradebillyboy Dec 27 #115

Then please do post some OPs on them iemanja Dec 27 #85

Nobody really cares about those places because comradebillyboy Dec 27 #116

We cared about Iraq iemanja Dec 27 #145

No words for Sudan again I see... Arazi Dec 26 #8

I'm curious quakerboy Dec 26 #19

The OP is about the slaughter of innocents Arazi Dec 26 #21

The dead and hungry quakerboy Dec 26 #41

US involvement isn't the point of the OP however Arazi Dec 26 #43

Id say it is. quakerboy Dec 26 #48

Why can't we effect change in Darfur? Or Congo? Arazi Dec 26 #49

How? quakerboy Dec 27 #74

Removing US aid would not stop Israeli action in Gaza Arazi Dec 27 #92

I dont agree. Period. quakerboy Dec 27 #134

I just did a search under your name for Darfur, Congo, and Sudan iemanja Dec 27 #82

It's not about *my* fixation Arazi Dec 27 #93

Your singular point iemanja Dec 27 #144

It's a very short post and not difficult to read iemanja Dec 27 #78

Again I repeat, it's not *my* fixation Arazi Dec 27 #94

You're the one continually raising it as an excuse. iemanja Dec 27 #143

I'm curious sarisataka Dec 26 #23

There is a difference in power over the situation, in my perception quakerboy Dec 26 #40

No, but it makes us as taxpayers complicit in the genocide iemanja Dec 27 #84

Just to show how superficial and fallacious this argument is, Beastly Boy Dec 27 #99

62,000 is the number of dead I see for Sudan womanofthehills Dec 26 #53

Sudan: "..up to 150,000 people had been killed in the conflict across the country." EX500rider Dec 27 #66

Whataboutism iemanja Dec 27 #76

me too BlueWaveNeverEnd Dec 26 #14

Why do posts like this never mention Hamas? perdita9 Dec 26 #16

Because Hamas are "freedom fighters like Mandela" BannonsLiver Dec 26 #37

Hamas: mr715 Dec 26 #52

Because it's not a war - it's a one way slaughter womanofthehills Dec 26 #54

So who's been killing IDF soldiers and Israeli civilians? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #62

Hamas and Hezbollah did not form in a political vacuum. lees1975 Dec 27 #70

Of course not. They wouldn't exist if Iran didn't prop them up in their quest to destabilize the entire region. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #102

The reason for their formation and existence was present long before Iran got involved. lees1975 Dec 27 #114

Hamas was founded in 1987. Hezbollah was founded in 1985. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #119

I think you are well aware of the reason. Just as an example, after Oct 7, there was sparce condemnation of what Hamas JohnSJ Dec 27 #106

Great post. MarineCombatEngineer Dec 27 #117

Because now it's not Hamas doing the slaughtering? AloeVera Dec 27 #157

You are presuming that hiding among civilians in humanitarian zones is not an atrocity. Beastly Boy Sunday #225

It is a reason there will never be peace. Violence begets violence and revenge seems to be a basic human instinct. surfered Dec 26 #17

real talk: no one. quakerboy Dec 26 #18

K&R 2naSalit Dec 26 #24

The bib got dump elected. Clouds Passing Dec 26 #25

Others want credit as well sarisataka Dec 26 #35

Hamas is going to stop "Bibi and the Complicit West" by returning the hostages. maxsolomon Dec 26 #28

I gave up on Israel when Bibi MuchBetterThanThis Dec 26 #29

Aid enid602 Dec 26 #39

The hostages have been in the terror tunnels for well over a year. Richard D Dec 26 #31

Someone give Israel their own planet, in another galaxy please Avalon Sparks Dec 26 #45

If you can't care about the hostages Hamas took, you can't care about the civilians killed in the war either NickB79 Dec 26 #46

You're right . . . Richard D Dec 26 #47

Oh I know revenge has nothing to do with it. Avalon Sparks Dec 27 #89

This word salad is as meaningless as it is familiar. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #105

It infuriates me. AloeVera Dec 27 #127

Ah so Jewish people defending themselves is pure evil. ZRB Dec 27 #139

Evil is evil, even when Jews are committing it. AloeVera Dec 27 #153

So, you agree then, that Hamas is very evil? yagotme Sunday #229

And routinely disregarding evil with one conspicuous exception smacks of special dispensation, doesn't it? Beastly Boy Sunday #232

Wanna cracker, Polly? Dave Bowman Dec 27 #183

"False atrocity propaganda" . . . Richard D Dec 27 #148

Touched a nerve... AloeVera Dec 27 #155

Pathetic Avalon Sparks Dec 27 #162

Thank you for this. AloeVera Sunday #212

New health dept report heading to the UN. (WARNING) Mosby Sunday #213

You and I both know that there are those who will deny this MarineCombatEngineer Sunday #214

Hi MCE. AloeVera Sunday #219

Hi AloeVera, MarineCombatEngineer Sunday #221

Just be careful, that's how Willie Nelson got hurt,,, yagotme Sunday #230

Hitting the road again? AloeVera Sunday #231

Are you for real? Mossfern Dec 27 #160

Plenty of information from reputable Human Rights organizations Avalon Sparks Dec 27 #167

I'm talking about the atrocities of 10/7 Mossfern Dec 27 #169

Here's your answer Avalon Sparks Dec 27 #171

Uncaptured media Mossfern Dec 27 #177

You hit the nail on the head. AloeVera Dec 26 #59

Excellent points AloeVera Avalon Sparks Dec 27 #90

That's a gross overestimation. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #108

The sad and harsh truth malaise Dec 27 #100

That's the problem. You don't care enough to ask yourself what the reason for such discrepancy is. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #101

Bingo. Cruelty is what netenyahu has unleashed on the Palestinians. That was his goal all along and akbacchus_BC Dec 27 #112

If cruelty was his goal all along, Beastly Boy Dec 27 #126

Everything you say is what Israel is doing to their prisoners womanofthehills Dec 26 #55

Who has the video? How many hostages are "many"? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #109

And guess what? MarineCombatEngineer Dec 27 #118

Ha. Only because there is video. AloeVera Dec 27 #172

Ha!!! MarineCombatEngineer Dec 27 #174

Some divides are chasms too wide and deep to bridge, MCE AloeVera Dec 27 #184

I do love a good challenge. MarineCombatEngineer Saturday #189

"Who is going to stop Bibi and the complicit West?" J_William_Ryan Dec 26 #33

This is, unfortunately, the way it is calguy Dec 26 #34

This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Dec 26 #36

This kind The Bopper Dec 26 #38

So am I. It's far past time for Hamas to surrender. tritsofme Dec 26 #44

You, my friend, are not the only one sick of the IDF shit! Genocide, plainly. Jit423 Dec 26 #50

THIS malaise Dec 26 #58

Answer: mr715 Dec 26 #51

What's the likelihood of that? AloeVera Dec 26 #57

As likely as democracy to win at home mr715 Dec 27 #68

I don't see it. AloeVera Dec 27 #159

And now they have bombed the last hospital malaise Saturday #188

Three babies froze to death in the last few days. AloeVera Saturday #192

Not to defend how out of proportion edhopper Dec 26 #60

Feeling pretty healthy about the far worse slaughter everywhere else? Beastly Boy Dec 26 #61

Bibi isn't at blame. He is responding to the threat to his people. Groundhawg Dec 27 #86

I watched a great documentary the other evening. It's called "The Bibi Files". Dave Bowman Dec 27 #88

Why the 7 Oct 2023 Attack in Southern Israel? C0RI0LANUS Dec 27 #91

Are we justifyig hostage taking now? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #110

Ask Donnie Blue_Tires Dec 27 #98

Beyond sick. marble falls Dec 27 #103

Netanyahu is setting up World War. Kid Berwyn Dec 27 #107

Those that murder civilians are never the "Good Guys". Ping Tung Dec 27 #121

What is your opinion about killing illegal combatants who commit a war crime of perfidy? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #128

The same as my opinions about "legal" combatants who kill, starve, torture civilians. Ping Tung Dec 27 #129

Which is... what, exactly? Beastly Boy Dec 27 #130

That they're war criminals. Ping Tung Dec 27 #132

Ok, I must have misunderstood the purpose of your post. Beastly Boy Dec 27 #135

OK Mossfern Dec 27 #161

The only thing that works in stopping a bully OP is ThePartyThatListens Dec 27 #133

How about the Arab countries, get off their asses, and make some demands of Bibi, and rescue fellow Arabs? amuse bouche Dec 27 #136

I believe that you have a good point. nt Dave Bowman Dec 27 #138

You see there's a really good reason for that... ZRB Dec 27 #141

Who is the pro-Hamas crowd? iemanja Dec 27 #146

I don't know what else to call people parroting Hamas propaganda ZRB Dec 27 #150

Systematically bombing hospitals is mass murder iemanja Dec 27 #154

What systematic bombing of hospitals? ZRB Dec 27 #178

There are 22 Arab countries amuse bouche Saturday #191

Everywhere I look...I see HAMAS! Lemons UK Dec 27 #149

I hate it too, but it isn't just Bibi and the west. 58Sunliner Dec 27 #151

Hamas can stop it's terrorist activities. nycbos Dec 27 #152

No one in power cares... WarGamer Dec 27 #158

And I'm sick of the anti Israel propaganda posted here. MarineCombatEngineer Dec 27 #164

"anti Israel propaganda posted here" Dave Bowman Dec 27 #182

Genocide and war crimes malaise Sunday #216

Sorry, not buying what you're trying to sell here. nt MarineCombatEngineer Sunday #217

Am I lost? LiberaBlueDem Dec 27 #175

Yes, unfortunately I noticed that also. That's a damn shame. Dave Bowman Saturday #186

Democrats aren't pacifists. Mosby Saturday #200

The continued slaughter is no longer self defense within the confines of this current war Martin Eden Saturday #195

Israel should continue to degrade Hamas Mosby Saturday #196

"They don't want a country, they want to destroy Israel." Martin Eden Saturday #199

I think Native Americans might have come to that conclusion too. y AloeVera Saturday #203

Native Americans, in their desperation and grief, turned to the Ghost Dance. Martin Eden Saturday #206

Sometimes words can't either. AloeVera Sunday #211

A very thoughtful response malaise Saturday #197

The US is protecting our interests there.. by supporting Israel Arazi Saturday #201

But no issue with the higher death counts in other recent wars? EX500rider Saturday #198

Gaza is the worst slaughter of civilians in a "war" by any measure in the last 20 years or more. AloeVera Saturday #202

So killing 10 people in a country with 20 people would be worse then killing 3 million in a country with 23 million? EX500rider Saturday #204

Lol!! AloeVera Saturday #205

Lets use the UN number maybe? EX500rider Saturday #207

I thought your side didn't trust the UN. AloeVera Saturday #208

"unverified, unproven, evidence-free, totally made-up claim that the death toll of around 45k" EX500rider Saturday #209

Ah, selective editing. AloeVera Sunday #210

Correct malaise Sunday #215