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Emrys

(8,885 posts)
28. You'd hope so
Sun Dec 7, 2025, 07:43 AM
Sunday

The problem's been that European governments have been so relieved whenever a relatively humane and reasonable US government has come along, memories of the downsides of their relationships with the US have been short, so they've all been caught somewhat by surprise by the extremity of the recent turns in US policy.

The UK is especially vulnerable because after Brexit - and fulfilling the fears of many of us who opposed it - the government's declared policy has been to seek even greater reliance on the US for trade etc. Witness how sickeningly Starmer sucked up to Trump in the Oval Office. It's also reliant on the US for support of it's supposed "independent" nuclear deterrent, unlike the French who managed to gain access to covert support from the Americans for the development of their force de frappe without becoming beholden to the whims of US policy. I'm not sure I hold out much hope for Starmer making moves that I'd see as productive, like biting the bullet and seeking greater reintegration with the EU in any serious terms.

The war in Ukraine has done much to draw the European partners together in a common cause in a way that wouldn't have happened in peacetime, and it's remarkable how few tensions and splits there have been between EU and NATO members other than the US given the pressures and problems Russia and Trump have thrown up.

I'd hope they've finally learned their lesson and will seek progressively greater independence in foreign policy and defence that will stand no matter what happens on the US scene in future.

Supposedly that would be in agreement with this security plan, but ironically, already US diplomats have been squawking loudly that the Europeans are seeking to invest in and develop their own arms industries rather than buying from the US, which under Trump evidently wants to have its cake and eat it.

During the PNAC years, things looked pretty bleak and they arrogantly boasted they were creating reality while others stood around dumfounded trying to play catch-up. Things didn't pan out as its perpetrators wished - indeed, some of the PNAC's champions are nowadays ardent anti-Trumpers - but they did great harm before the PNAC eventually petered out in conflicts that are still unresolved but look more like an almighty mess than the result of any grand plan.

Since this security plan has yet to even be put before either House, I'd hope all is not lost yet. But NATO and Europe, including the UK, have to change whatever happens. You'd hope the Trump era would be a once-in-a-lifetime disaster that will run its course and eventually fail, but it would be foolish to bet on that.

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It's official. He's a Traitor. Captain Zero Saturday #1
And he gets medals, billions of dollars, and his name everywhere. Irish_Dem Saturday #11
shithole can't do that...... Lovie777 Saturday #2
The damage is done. Europe does not trust us and is no longer an ally. Irish_Dem Saturday #12
Europe's weathered stormy times with relatively hostile US administrations in the past. Emrys Sunday #26
Europe knows it can no longer wait around and see what Wisconsin voters do. Irish_Dem Sunday #27
You'd hope so Emrys Sunday #28
Europe would be foolish to think Trump is a one off disaster. Irish_Dem Sunday #30
Another Putin First document neverforget Saturday #3
Wall street journal interpretation: U.S. Flips History by Casting Europe--Not Russia--as Villain in New Security Policy An BlueWaveNeverEnd Saturday #4
archive link Celerity Saturday #13
Thank you BlueWaveNeverEnd Saturday #14
just one part of the madness: Celerity Saturday #17
Just one among many aspects of how blinkered they are is Emrys Sunday #25
"the restoration and reinvigoration of American spiritual and cultural health" J_William_Ryan Saturday #5
Whoa....Big K&R, must read Bayard Saturday #6
Might as well drop the N from NSS berniesandersmittens Saturday #7
The current world order has made the USA by far the richest country on the planet. And in history. Swede Saturday #8
Richest 0.00001% of the population that literally BUYS pols. Justice matters. Sunday #21
USA gdp is larger than China's with one third of the population. Swede Sunday #23
I am still amazed Dan Saturday #9
He can't. He's a figurehead. hay rick Sunday #20
Fuck all the fascists and Christian nationalists !!!!!!!!!!!!!! SamKnause Saturday #10
Here's the PDF of the policy KewlKat Saturday #15
Thanks for the link. I will read it when I am feeling steeled, yellow dahlia Sunday #34
Just because they wrote it down, doesn't make it so. Fiendish Thingy Saturday #16
I'm counting on it, Fiendish Thingy! calimary Saturday #19
This is long winded Charmin One Saturday #18
If Trump had been in office instead of FDR, I have no doubt that... LudwigPastorius Sunday #22
What is American culture anyway? Cause I can only think embracing the Native American culture. Nanjeanne Sunday #24
Utter fucking madness! flashman13 Sunday #29
Just what you'd expect from a russian asset posing as president. spanone Sunday #31
"Political atheism: End justifies the means. This is still the most widespread of all the opinions inimical to liberty." Ping Tung Sunday #32
Here's a link to the WH document if anyone's interested berniesandersmittens Sunday #33
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